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Heritage Lost a customer ...title changed

BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
I am having a little money trouble like we all do somtimes ... i asked heritage to cancel my bids in the Bullet auction and they gave me a hard time and then canceled my account .

6 years of buying and never returning one coin and he called me a dead beat bidder. i asked to speak to steve ivy this guy told me he was one of the owners and his decision was final.

So much for loyalty.



<< <i>Let me try and explain the decision about BIGDAVE. BIGDAVE cancelled over 60 current bids yesterday afternoon. 40 bids were for the Bullet Auction which closes on-line Monday night. Another 20 or so bids were for last night’s "Exclusively Internet Auction" which was just a few hours from closing. While it is our desire to accommodate our customers in all instances, sometimes that just isn’t possible. We have a duty to protect our consignors as well as our bidders. Imagine if you were the underbidder on a lot that you had been outbid on and all of a sudden you find out you are again the high bidder? What if you had moved on and bid or even bought something else because you thought you had been outbid? What if you were the consignor and you saw bids being taken away? Obviously the repercussions are extensive. That’s why we go to a lot of trouble to make sure everyone understand the rules of bidding. >>



shame shame

Paulmin
FACT....lets get the facts right i had 30 on the bullet auction that i was high bidder on the others i was outbid on ...........i was high Bidder on 1 auction on the internet auction for last night i was already out bid on the other 19.

FACT... i did not ask anyone to cancel the bids on the internet auction last night only the bullet auction......you did that on your own

Fact ...... i did not get upset till your secretary was hateful and very matter of fact telling me tuff sh^t

Fact... you told me you where one of the owners

David
«134

Comments

  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OUCH! Sorry to hear about this Dave.

    Best of luck working through your fiscal issues...

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • Catch22Catch22 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭
    Heritage NARU'd you? Bummer.


    When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.

    Thomas Paine
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    It is just temp.the auction falls at a bad time i have to use the money for a car for my daughter.

    next month i would have been back on track.

    i tried to explain but it was the owner.

    oh well i will just buy more from teletrade..

    it just pisses me off
  • Oh well, there's always EBAY. They don't buy, sell or grade coins in thier auctions
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    Yea but 6 years of spending $50 to $600 per month and never once being late with a payment and that means Nothing to them.
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BIG DAVE -

    No offense Dave, but making your daughter’s car problem Heritage’s problem doesn’t seem very fair to Heritage. I can see why they would be somewhat annoyed.

    How would you like it if your boss told you you would have to wait another 30 days for your paycheck “because he needs to buy a car for his daughter”. I doubt that would fly well with you.

    I must admit though, canceling your account seems a bit extreme, especially for such an account in good standing. Take another crack at them, as this seems very rash on their part. Hope it gets worked out..

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    Dave
    i did not leave them standing, its a long time till the Bullet auction i gave plenty of notice. i did not ask them to wait for any money i dont owe them a penney.
    i just wanted the advance bids canceled

    BigDave
  • lavalava Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭
    This early, it should not have been a problem, especially given your history. It is a little surprising.
    I brake for ear bars.
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    does not surprise me at all

    i have heard of many many bad experiences as such

    also for me too

    michael
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Big sounds like you had a bad day or they misunderstood or something like that - they are too big to NARU you and all. get a name from a regular here on the boards that you're tight with - call him and sort it out. I'm sure you'll get over it as will they. Good luck




    Marc
  • orieorie Posts: 998
    I am a little more then upset by Heritage not working with you. Believe me there are others who have made the same request with less influence that they said sorry for your situation and lets do more business in the future.
    What irritates me more then anything are these sanctimonious coin molesters on here taking the high road.
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    orie
    i always thought Heritage cared about the little guy .i always paid for my winning the same day or the next day, i guess now that they moved, there only interested in the (BIG buyers)

    David
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,952 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BigDave: nothing will get resolved this week unless you can find the real decision makers in Pittsburgh.

    Just wait until next week when they all return.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hesitate to post to this thread, but here goes anyway. I am very sorry about your current financial problems and hope that they are resolved very soon. As far as Heritage is concerned, since you are a good customer, I am sure that they would have given you much latitude in paying for the auctions (or reselling the coins) had you won. As a potential consigner, however, I am not surprised that they were unwilling to accomodate your pulling your bids as this could compromise their auctions, potentially harm the owner of the coins, and is likely explicitly forbidden in the rules for the auction. I am surprised that they NARU'd you over it, however.

    Good luck,

    Robert
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    Holy cow Maybe they did me a favor i just looked all my invoices for 2004 and i have spent $4725 with heritage

    and i am a small piss ant buyer in there books
  • wingedlibertywingedliberty Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭
    I remember dealing with Richard Van Atta there and he invoiced everything to me. He was a really good guy. As far as Steve Ivy and James Halperin, well don't know them that well at all.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This would surprise me coming from an "owner." Maybe the guy owns 2 shares of company stock...I don't know. But send Jim Halperin an email when you get a chance and see what response you get. He was more than fair to me on my first consignment ever this year...and I was a pain in the butt at times as I wanted things just right. Eventually we got it done. Matter of fact, they just sent me a complimentary copy of the Greatest 100 coins!...only sad thing is that I don't own any of them.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    I bet this problem can be rectified and there is some misunderstanding somewhere. I know Steve Ivy and he's a good guy. Maybe you caught him on a bad day or maybe you thought you were talking to him and you were actually talking to someone who you thought was Steve Ivy.

    Anyway, I will pass this thread along to a friend at Heritage (Greg Rohan) and maybe he can give you a hand. They are actually good people....they just have a very large organization and sometimes problems happen that need individual attention.

    Remember though, if you had coins up for auction and you had a high bidder who just jerked his bids...I bet you would want something done about it. Maybe they were pressured into slamming you for a little while. Keep an open mind.

    adrian
  • wingedlibertywingedliberty Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭
    If the guy was smart he would have handled it right. Financial hardship is a reality and dealers should be sensative to loyal customers and loyal customers should be sensative to dealers.
    If I was the Heritage rep, I would have said as follows:

    " I am sorry to hear about your financial difficulties Mr. XYZ, I understand these things can happen, how about you pay us a fair bid reptraction fee and we will retract the bids. This way its fair to all parties involved and we are compensated for our labor and costs, and we look forward to retaining you as a future Heritage customer when you recover!". Now, thats fair!!! and good business!
    Your thoughts?
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    adrian
    it was not steve ivy i have talked to him before very nice man , i think his name was paul in charge of all auctions and one of the owners in his words , i asked him to transfer me to steve ivy and that is when he told me he was one of the owners and MR ivy Cant do anything thats final.

  • Would that be Paul Minshull? It sounds like him. He's the CEO.

    Poor form on his part, as he could have easily held the billing for an extra month if that's all it would take, or held the succesful bids on layaway.
  • Dave,

    I really don't see a problem cancelling bids this far in advance regardless of what the reason was for cancelling your bids.
    It's not like you let the bids ride and then defaulted on your payment. I think Heritage needs to look at the customer history before calling someone a deadbeat bidder.

    Frank
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you bid mad money in hopes of winning the item I can see how they might be miffed. If you had no hope of winning then I don't see a problem.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • Bigdave,
    Sounds like a misunderstanding. Call Greg Rogan at 214-528-3500. If it can be staightened out he will do it.

    Louis

  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    BAJJERFAN
    i underbid one example i bid $1000 on a 1932-D pcgs ms63

    on bullet auctions i speculate i had very low odds on winning anything
    But i did not want to take a chance and ruin any auction for Heritage so i wanted to cancel

    i bid $4000 on 30 auctions if i won the coins where worth $12,000

  • RBinTexRBinTex Posts: 4,328
    Doesn't surprise me one bit. They are VERY arrogant, obnoxious, self-rightous, and have a tendancy to bully the little guy & treat them like KRAP.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I asked them to reduce a bid awhile back. They asked if I wanted I wanted to cancel instead. I said just reduce it please. They were very cordial about it. Hope you decide to make peace with them if you have been generally happy with their service.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    Well they have nerve.. i just got a email saying i won a lot in the auction last night ..so the a@s just canceled my account and never canceled my bids.. so now in 7 days from today my account will go past due .. and then Heritage can justify there actions..
  • Sounds like "Paul" really dropped the ball. He should be taken out to some desolate area west of Dallas and be machinegunned.image
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    twice, both quite some time ago, i've fat-fingered too high a bid on a coin. they didn't let me yank the bids, but let me lower it to 1 increment above the then-current high-bidder. i did not win either coin.

    i can fully understand their stance as an auction house not to yank bids completely, but they were able to work w/ me on that particular instance.

    seems like they should work w/ you, since it sounds like your an even better customer than i am. btw, why not go ahead & win the coins, then pay for them over time?

    K S
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe that they do offer 6 month terms!!
    theknowitalltroll;
  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭
    So what did you win and what was the price? Maybe someone here would like to have the lot you won at your bid price.
  • TrimeTrime Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭
    Big Dave,
    I hesitate to ask you but I wonder if the discusion with Heritage got heated between the time they refused to pull your bids and the time they cancelled you account?
    Trime
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    I could have paid 1 week after the auction .. But that is not the point.. i have been a loyal Heritage customer for over 6 years and never once late on a payment .
    i asked them to cancel bids way in advance,there was not any other bids only mine. it is to early.
    he said if he removes the bids i am a dead beat bidder.

    i am sorry but that is no way to treat a good loyal customer .....................

    heck i should have just won everything and just not paid .in Heritage eyes i am the same a dead beat bidder
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    Trime

    i never talked to this guy before ,i asked my auctions to be canceled they said no ,i asked to talk to steve ivy they said hold ....10 min past i hung up 5 min later i got a call from heritage she said my account has been canceled, i asked why because you canceled your bids ,i asked to speak to steve ivy she said no you can speak to the man in charge he told me the same thing ,again i asked to speak to steve ivy he told me" i am one of the owners Mr ivy Can't do anything"

    at that i posted on the Board
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    Heritage has made one fatal error in treating the average collector like sh$t . In a strong market like now, yes they do not need us , the big boys are out.but when the market slows down. I and people like me the average collector WE ARE there bread and butter, pretty soon they will have dry toast.

    I know Steve Ivy does not know anything about this , because i had a problem about 4 years ago over a $20 coin he called me took care of it and gave me a $25 gift

    he built this company on customer satisfaction.and the people he has now are going to destroy it because they think they are top dog.
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Just a word of advice when you are in this situation ask the person their name and write it down, then recap with them what the agreement was so you can go back and talk with someone later if there is a screwup and explain to them what agreement you made and who it was with. I have found this helpful not only when I was a customer, but also when I owned a company. When somebody called and gave me the persons name and a recap of the conversation I was much more likely to believe them. Also it helps to note the time you spoke to them. Never rely on someone else not to screw up, it happens.
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭
    There is no doubt in my mind that you calling well in advance of the bell, you should have been allowed to cancel your bids. One time should always be allowed with a warning that this is a courtesy. Cutting you off could be a blessing in disguise, but it was a horrible decision by Paul and I can assure you that this "noise" will open the case again. Greg R. is a very fair guy who doesn't get bogged down with dogma and this will prove to be a bad PR move on their part.

    They are arrogant and try to dictate how things will be done. No doubt about that. However considering the re-emergence of B&M, ANR and Superior recently as "premier" auctioneers, they are feeling the heat as their dominance of the auctions is being threatened. You think they are sending out the books because they are nice?? Uh-uh. They are trying to coddle a little. Believe me, I've been coddled lately. They want my set!image
    image
  • Catch22Catch22 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭
    If you underbid on a lot of coins as you stated, not likely to win anything, you should be glad to have won an auction. You must have got a good deal on something. What was it, you bid about 4k on 12k worth of coins?


    When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.

    Thomas Paine
  • ajiaajia Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭
    Let's not get off track here.
    It isn't whether BigDave made a killing on an auction he wanted cancelled, it is the treatment he received when he felt he couldn't meet a finanicial obligation.
    He was being up front & honest....for that he gets the royal treatment from Heritage?
    He is also showing were his priority lies....his family.image

    Sometimes it boils down to this.....RESPECT.

    Respect me as a customer.....I have dealt with you for years.
    Respect me as a customer.....I trusted you with my money.
    Respect me as a customer.....I will do business with you again.

    Treat me like KR*P, I'll let others know & take my business to other auction houses, you're NOT the only fish in the sea!image

    Augie
    image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you underbid on a lot of coins as you stated, not likely to win anything, you should be glad to have won an auction. You must have got a good deal on something. What was it, you bid about 4k on 12k worth of coins? >>



    Well, unless I'm missing smoething the auctions for which he wanted the bids cancelled have not even ended yet so its unlikely he has won any of them. The "bullet" auctions to which he is referring don't end till August 23rd.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • Catch22Catch22 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭
    I think I get it now. He bid on the internet only auction and won and was trying to cancel bids on the bullet sale for next Monday, which is the auction he is in for 4k on 12k worth of coins...which he is very unlikely to win anyway.


    When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.

    Thomas Paine
  • BIGDAVEBIGDAVE Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭
    ajia
    Bingo
    you are 100% correct i was just trying to be up front and fair and was treated like sh%t
  • ERER Posts: 7,345
    Steve Ivy, Jim Halperin, and Greg Rohan are the owners.
    Paul Minshull is the COO, not CEO.
    I would suggest you e-mail one of the 3 big guys directly.
    Also Greg Rohan 's handle on this forum is HeritageGreg. Good luck.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Steve Ivy, Jim Halperin, and Greg Rohan are the owners.
    Paul Minshull is the COO, not CEO.
    I would suggest you e-mail one of the 3 big guys directly.
    Also Greg Rohan 's handle on this forum is HeritageGreg. Good luck. >>

    Agreed here. Keep in mind that the honchos are probably rather busy in Pittsburgh now so their ability to quickly respond and make it right may be diminished.
  • gemtone65gemtone65 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Heritage is reluctant to cancel bids. They have no general policy about retracting bids, and treat requests on a case by case basis. Sometimes they agree to do so, other times not. Ironically, I called them last week to cancel a bid, and explained my reason for doing so. They accepted my explanation and my bid was promptly cancelled. They did check my bidding history as well before making their decision, however.

    Obviously, in these matters it's always best to speak to a responsible official who is most cutomer friendly. The people others have mentioned would have improved your chances of success.
  • HTubbsHTubbs Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭


    << <i>orie
    i always thought Heritage cared about the little guy .i always paid for my winning the same day or the next day, i guess now that they moved, there only interested in the (BIG buyers)

    David >>



    It's the same for most big dealers and auction companys,they get to big for their own britches!
  • I appreciate everyone's concern for BIGDAVE and I hope everyone understands that we value every customer regardless of the size of their budget. Our average customer only spends a few thousand dollars a year with us and we know how much it costs to get a new customer and to keep our existing customers satisfied. We wouldn't have over 100,000 members if we weren't trying to provide great service to our bidders and consignors.

    Let me try and explain the decision about BIGDAVE. BIGDAVE cancelled over 60 current bids yesterday afternoon. 40 bids were for the Bullet Auction which closes on-line Monday night. Another 20 or so bids were for last night’s "Exclusively Internet Auction" which was just a few hours from closing. While it is our desire to accommodate our customers in all instances, sometimes that just isn’t possible. We have a duty to protect our consignors as well as our bidders. Imagine if you were the underbidder on a lot that you had been outbid on and all of a sudden you find out you are again the high bidder? What if you had moved on and bid or even bought something else because you thought you had been outbid? What if you were the consignor and you saw bids being taken away? Obviously the repercussions are extensive. That’s why we go to a lot of trouble to make sure everyone understand the rules of bidding.

    If it had been one or two bids made by mistake or even if a result of sudden hardship we certainly would give every consideration, but 60 bids was just too much and we were unaware of any mitigating circumstances.

    Even after all that, Steve Ivy personally replied directly to BIGDAVE this morning from the ANA in Pittsburgh and told him that we would consider him as a customer again if he called next week and filled out a credit application. We hope that this was a one time situation for BIGDAVE and he takes the time re-apply.



    Paul Minshull
    Chief Operating Officer
    Heritage Auction Galleries
  • ERER Posts: 7,345
    Always nice to hear both sides of the story.image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heritage told Dave that he must bid on all of the auctions. Correct ? Since Heritage made him bid they should cancel the bids with no questions asked. Correct ? Yep I guess Heritage is a "Bunch of Money Grabbing @#(&amp;%#! "

    No way around this, Heritage screwed up.....Bad Heritage.....Shame on you.

    Ken

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