Should "In God We Trust" be removed from our coins & currency?
mintluster
Posts: 926
Don't want to start an argument, just want to know your thoughts on the matter.
I understand their is a movement underway to have legislation introduced to remove this statement from our money.
How would you vote?
I understand their is a movement underway to have legislation introduced to remove this statement from our money.
How would you vote?
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
It wasn't there prior to the civil war, andwas placed on the currency for a reason.
150 years later, perhaps it would be acceptable to remove it and return to the more strict adherence of the separate of church and state envisioned in the bill of rights.
(This may be considered ironic, since the major attribution point on 79s Rev 78 Morgans is the "r" in "trust")
<< <i>No Other than God, there are very few that have my full trust. >>
NOWHERE IN OUR CONSTITUTION DOES IT STATE FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.
The separation of Church and state means the government will not force a single religion upon us like King George did to the British. Why it that so diffecult for people to understand?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Fcloud is absolutely correct. Atheists, liberals and an activist judiciary have completely twisted and destroyed the intent of the founding fathers on this issue. It is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. There is nothing about the motto In God We Trust that endorses one religion over another.
Russ, NCNE >>
Good points. Would agree with those who say that "In God......" implies that our nation has a MONOTHEISTIC faith, meaning a faith one God?
Are their any Americans who have a religion that does not believe in one God? A POLYTHEISTIC religion. They would obviously have a problem with the term "In God we trust."
Just food for thought.
<< <i>
<< <i>Fcloud is absolutely correct. Atheists, liberals and an activist judiciary have completely twisted and destroyed the intent of the founding fathers on this issue. It is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. There is nothing about the motto In God We Trust that endorses one religion over another.
Russ, NCNE >>
CORRECTION MADE: Good points. Would you agree with those who say that "In God......" implies that our nation has a MONOTHEISTIC faith, meaning a faith one God?
Are their any Americans who have a religion that does not believe in one God? A POLYTHEISTIC religion. They would obviously have a problem with the term "In God we trust."
Just food for thought. >>
Seperation of church and state.
Personally I could care less. However, what if someone does not believe in god? Should we have a separate currency for them?
In the name of god think about all the evil things man has done to each other in just the last 100 years. I feel it is all a bit hypocritical. Those who profess god's name the loudest tend to be the most egregious perpetrators of evil. Not all mind you, but many.
<< <i>Yes.
It wasn't there prior to the civil war, andwas placed on the currency for a reason.
150 years later, perhaps it would be acceptable to remove it and return to the more strict adherence of the separate of church and state envisioned in the bill of rights.
(This may be considered ironic, since the major attribution point on 79s Rev 78 Morgans is the "r" in "trust") >>
Good points. I am trying to remain nutrual on this issue, but you are in the minority here so I feel compelled to mention your comments.
Our Founding Fathers were the ones who many claim did not want religious terms and phrases on our money or in our court houses (or anywhere else where we were "advertising" our faith as a nation), as evidenced by the fact that they never put it on there in the first place.
They also did not believe in having President's heads on our money because they wanted our country to be distinctly different from the Monarchy of England that mandated a certain religion and always put the King's likeness on their money.
Perception is everything and it appears our Founding Fathers knew this quite well. Once we began making all of these changes 100 years after their deaths, they were long gone, so they could obviously not give their thoughts on the matter or debate the issue.
But the simple fact that none of this happened while they were alive and it was all done (laws passed) 70 to 100 years later, always sparks interesting debate and discussion.
<< <i>A POLYTHEISTIC religion. They would obviously have a problem with the term "In God we trust." >>
Why would anyone, regardless of faith, have a "problem" with it? Might it offend them? Well, boo hoo. As much as the PC Police would like to believe otherwise, there is no right in this country not to be offended. The motto does not sanction any religion, nor does it imply endorsement - and it does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that the state is involved in, running or organizing a religion.
The fundamental goal of the Bill Of Rights was a simple one; to prevent the state from determining for all citizens that they must adhere to a certain faith. The fact that we have literally hundreds of faiths in this country existing side-by-side speaks volumes about the spectacular success of that goal.
Russ, NCNE
None of those religions have a large following in the US, but if the precendence is set in this manner, and (for example) "California style Buddism" takes over not just Richard Gere's house, but a large part of the US, would the motto then be changed to "In Budda we trust"?
"In God we trust" is slightly different in that it does already have quite a bit of history, and there's always momentum against making changes that "removes" something. I am for removing the phrase, but only mildly so. If it stays on for another 150 years, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
1...The freedom to choose or not to choose a religion. (religious)
2...No taxation without representation. (economic)
The right to choose and practice a religion was obviously on the founding fathers mind but freedom also allows for agnostics and athiests to believe as they want. It is pure folly to say that because "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our money it is forcing acknowledgement of a God at all. It is only saying that the founding fathers believed in a God. Show me the athiest or agnostic who drives by a church and then demands it to be torn down because the religious words, statues and symbols forced him to believe.
Leave it on the money.
"Personally, I'd rather see the country live it regardless of whether it is on coinage and currency." --nwcs
I agree.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
However, this is easily resolved by moving to France.
or some other more desirable place to live.
<< <i>
Our Founding Fathers were the ones who many claim did not want religious terms and phrases on our money or in our court houses (or anywhere else where we were "advertising" our faith as a nation), as evidenced by the fact that they never put it on there in the first place.
They also did not believe in having President's heads on our money because they wanted our country to be distinctly different from the Monarchy of England that mandated a certain religion and always put the King's likeness on their money.
Perception is everything and it appears our Founding Fathers knew this quite well. Once we began making all of these changes 100 years after their deaths, they were long gone, so they could obviously not give their thoughts on the matter or debate the issue.
But the simple fact that none of this happened while they were alive and it was all done (laws passed) 70 to 100 years later, always sparks interesting debate and discussion. >>
I've read a bit into how they men, despite their flaws (slave ownership, etc) had the foresight to create a document that established the foundation of a great democracy.
Debates about whether there should even be a president... That was interesting.
I am also very much in favor of returning the more symbolic "MISS LIBERTY" to the currency and coinage.
<< <i>
<< <i>The fundamental goal of the Bill Of Rights was a simple one; to prevent the state from determining for all citizens that they must adhere to a certain faith. The fact that we have literally hundreds of faiths in this country existing side-by-side speaks volumes about the spectacular success of that goal.
Russ, NCNE >>
EXACTLY. So how do you think it looks to an AMERICAN who's faith is Hindu or Buddism (for example - there are many) who's faith does NOT believe in ONE GOD ("In God We Trust"), and the nation's money has that term. Those AMERICANS would claim that the phrase "In God we trust" tells everyone in the world that America is a MONOTHEISTIC believing religous country (Christianity, Islam, and the Jewish faith - these are the largest, there are more). They would argue that you are speaking for the country with that phrase, not representing their faith as Americans, but representing other American faiths. Essentially picking one faith over another, all represented by Americans and our different tastes.
And of course Atheists would claim they do not believe in ANY GOD but the country is speaking for them by claiming "In God We Trust" on a form of currency that sees every other country in the world. That is a LOT OF ADVERTISEMENT. Right or wrong?
<< <i>I think I'll be flamed from here to the underworld for this, but I think that "In God we trust" does recognize a monotheistic view of religion. >>
So what? It still not propagating a state run religion. Is this concept that difficult to comprehend? We are guaranteed the right to choose our faith; we are not guaranteed the right to not be exposed to faith.
<< <i>Our Founding Fathers were the ones who many claim did not want religious terms and phrases on our money or in our court houses >>
Where in their writings do they say this? In the aggregate, quite the opposite is true. A handful were atheistic in their views, but the vast majority of them were deeply religious men, and the teachings of God are woven inextricably throughout both their public and private writings.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>yikes. Sorry to hear so many who enjoy the living in the greatest, most free country in the world are unhappy with having In God We Trust on the coinage of the land.
However, this is easily resolved by moving to France.
or some other more desirable place to live. >>
This is not the point here. Nobody said they were unhappy and did not like our country. We are discussing an issue. It's just that simple. The great thing is that we live in a country where we can have this discussion without fear of being executed or punished in any way.
<< <i>EXACTLY. So how do you think it looks to an AMERICAN who's faith is Hindu or Buddism (for example - there are many) who's faith does NOT believe in ONE GOD ("In God We Trust") >>
Frankly, I couldn't care less how it "looks" to them. As long as they are free to practice their faith without government interference, the one and only goal of the founding fathers has been achieved.
Russ, NCNE
Most importantly it clutters up the coins and makes them just that much more wordy. Americans
have always complained about the artistic merits of the current coin but are continually adding
more mottos and wording. How much does a coin really need to say about all Americans besides
"liberty" and "e pluribus unum". Even these could go if it would contribute toward uncluttering
the coins.
Second most importantly is that the motto can be considered sacreligious. If you don't believe
this then look at the references to dieties on foreign coins. All such references are offensive on
some level.
Of least importance and of little consequence to the question is that the motto does endorse
Christianity. While I'd agree that this is in itself not necessarily offensive it does go against the
spirit of the nation if not the laws.
<< <i>A nation founded on 2 things needs to never for get the reason for it's existence. This nation exists because the founding fathers wanted 2 things.
1...The freedom to choose or not to choose a religion. (religious)
2...No taxation without representation. (economic)
The right to choose and practice a religion was obviously on the founding fathers mind but freedom also allows for agnostics and athiests to believe as they want. It is pure folly to say that because "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our money it is forcing acknowledgement of a God at all. It is only saying that the founding fathers believed in a God. Show me the athiest or agnostic who drives by a church and then demands it to be torn down because the religious words, statues and symbols forced him to believe.
Leave it on the money. >>
It was previously mentioned, the founding fathers didn't put "In God we trust" on the US currency. It was placed on US currency during the civil war, in difficult times when Americans were slaughtering each other. When the world stopped making sense, placing your belief in God seemed only natural.
link
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
If one is an Atheist, that is fine. This country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
Currently attempting the 12 Coin US Gold Type Set and the 20th Century US Major Coin Type Set. Completed a Franklin Half Proof Set.
<< <i>Absolutely should NOT be removed. We have bent over backwards for these liberals. >>
I agree. 99.99% of the people bend over backwards not to hurt the feelings of the few. It is about time for the 0.01% to give us the same consideration.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>
<< <i>
The right to choose and practice a religion was obviously on the founding fathers mind but freedom also allows for agnostics and athiests to believe as they want. It is pure folly to say that because "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our money it is forcing acknowledgement of a God at all. It is only saying that the founding fathers believed in a God. >>
I know you may not believe this but ALL of the Founding Fathers did not believe in a God. It is a very wide misperception that all of the Founding Fathers were religious or christian men. If that were true, do you really think they could have objectively came up with a system like this? No way, not in a million years.
Bust Half & FSB Merc Collector
<< <i>Where in their writings do they say this? In the aggregate, quite the opposite is true. A handful were atheistic in their views, but the vast majority of them were deeply religious men, and the teachings of God are woven inextricably throughout both their public and private writings. >>
Obviously enough were "agnostic" or atheist in their views to allow an OBJECTIVE system created for a country of freedom in every aspect. Do you really know how many were religious, how many wer not, and of what faiths they all were or were not? I bet not. In fairness, neither do I. The point is that their were enough different views on these issues that they created a fair system of equality to all, not equality only to those who agree with our faith or views.
<< <i>I agree. 99.99% of the people bend over backwards not to hurt the feelings of the few. It is about time for the 0.01% to give us the same consideration. >>
You are probably one of the same people who believe that Indians, or Native Amercians as we call them, have no right to complain about anything (lost land, and team names like "Redskins" with an Indian's head as the emblem). The majority in this country does not have the right to trump the minority on every issue.
<< <i>I agree. 99.99% of the people bend over backwards not to hurt the feelings of the few. It is about time for the 0.01% to give us the same consideration >>
This is also the same kind of logic that white Americans used while Black Amercians spent 100 years after the Civil War fighting for equality in this country. Luckily in that case the minority views prevailed. But for other races that battle has not even begun. This is why it is dangerous to say that the majority is always right.
We are starting to get off subject a bit.
You are all right because you all have your views and reasons for them.
Best of luck to all of you, this was enjoyable.
Leave it on the money!!
<< <i>Obviously enough were "agnostic" or atheist in their views to allow an OBJECTIVE system created for a country of freedom in every aspect. >>
Ah, so a person of faith is incapable of objective thought and reasoning. Thanks for clarifying precisely where you're coming from.
Russ, NCNE
Tom
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003