Coin Dealers

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 4:58AM

I went to sell some gold last week at a dealer....he was going to charge 10% under bid...do most dealers work this way?...if they do it Suks.

MrEureka · February 16, 2004 5:10AM

I went to sell some gold last week at a dealer....he was going to charge 10% under bid...do most dealers work this way?...if they do it Suks.

Some dealers pay more, some dealers pay less. Depends on the dealer, the market and the coin.

DaveG · February 16, 2004 5:11AM

If you were selling non-common gold coins, then 10% under Bid isn't too bad for a coin he might not be able to sell at retail right away.

If it was bullion, however, he should have offered more (unless he doesn't have retail customers for it).

JrGMan2004 · February 16, 2004 5:12AM

I sold a '95 and '97 Proof set at a show a week before FUN, and got 20% below sheet. Got $55 and $40 respectively... also depends on the coin... some coins will be bought above sheet b/c they can be sold way above sheet, especially if the greysheet is out of date in that area... but then, sometimes you get dealers who try to buy under sheet, even when they can sell WAY above sheet...

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 5:30AM

These are bullion coins...He also happens to be the biggest buyer from the US mint...which I was really surprised...He is nothing but a pig in my book.

jbsteven · February 16, 2004 5:32AM

if he buys at 10% back of bid and sells for 10% over bid (around ask) I don't see the problem. Everybody has to make a profit.

What price were you expecting?

edited to add

What exactly were you selling?

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 5:35AM

I was wanting at least bid....$5 gold modern bullion.

RYK · February 16, 2004 5:46AM

It is very hard to make a profit buying/selling gold bullion because the buy/sell spread is larger than one would expect. When you take the lowest denomination ($5; 1/10 ounce), the spread hurts you even more.

Just think, if you will allow the dealer to make $15 on a one ounce gold eagle, he can buy the coin for $410 and sell it for $425. Perhaps for volume purchase he will pay a bit more and sell for a bit less. Now, divide all of those numbers by 10 for the $5 eagle. Does not seem worth it to me.

If I were a bullion dealer, I would happily buy and sell the one ounce eagles and would happily sell the 1/10th ounce eagles, but would be loathe to buy back the one-tenth ounce eagles.

If you have any doubt, these coins sell actively on ebay. Check the going retail rate and consider selling it/them yourself.

kranky · February 16, 2004 6:08AM

On a $5 bullion coin, what is the difference between bid and 10% back?

Boom · February 16, 2004 6:52AM

AWW Kranky-you got his coming....10%

BillJones · February 16, 2004 6:57AM

As was stated before it all depends upon what you are selling. If your gold coins were not “PQ” and were marginal for their grades 10% under bid might be generous. You also may have shown up a day when gold bullion was down. It’s been volatile of late.

Some coins like many modern Proofs are often offered at shows at “bid.” Therefore it should come as no surprise that dealers can only pay less than bid for them.

“Bid” is not a magic number. It’s a guide. And if the coins are slabbed, they may or may not be worth “bid.” Ditto if they are raw.

mrearlygold · February 16, 2004 7:03AM

10% back of bid is being a pig?

What do YOU do for a living?

Topdollarpaid · February 16, 2004 7:17AM

I pay 10% over bid and sell for 50% underbid who needs to make a living anyways

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 7:17AM

Well I did not sell them...I will hold them...This has taught me a lesson about Big Houses...I bought the coins when gold was down at $258...a couple of years ago....I dont mind them making money but not at my expense....gold eagles sell for higher prices than gold bars...I will not deal with dealers who try to undermind collectors.

mrearlygold · February 16, 2004 7:20AM

Yeh, "they're" really evil. Dastardly dealers trying to "undermind' for 10%

This is a joke right?

TP

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 7:21AM

Recently I sold some of my gold to a Big House in California...they payed bid unseen.

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 7:25AM

mrearlygold, your 10% lose is their gain....you add up the oz. and 10% can be alot of money. You can sell at 10% under but I refuse.

mrearlygold · February 16, 2004 7:30AM

This really must be a joke.

Hahahahaha you're a funny guy. Had me fooled!

TP

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 7:34AM

mrearlygold, so how is business, I see you are one of those who likes to buy 10% under bid,,,,no it is people like yourself that are a joke.

darktone · February 16, 2004 8:02AM

I had a guy offer me $85 on a modern $5 in an NGC PF69 UCAM holder. I agreed with him that the coin was really only worth a few dollars more than the gold value which was about $103 at the time. But it made me mad that he offered almost $20 less than the gold value. Last weekend I sold a few K-rands and I called around for prices and with spot being $413 at the time I got quotes from $390-$408. I drove the 30 miles to get the $408 per ounce but if I was only selling an ounce or two I might have sold it locally for $390 but as cheap as I am probably not

. mike

mrearlygold · February 16, 2004 8:24AM

Mr dlimb2, business is better than ever when it comes to educated collectors and consumers. Judging from the type of material you are whining about, it's not I who is the joke sir.

I really did think this was a joke and now you take a shot at me. With an attitude like that it's no wonder you are where you are.

TP

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 9:00AM

mrearlygold,

Oh don't we have a truned up nose....ohhh my...well why don't you tell me where I am since you know so much about me!!! Matter of fact you took the first shot...so if the truth hurts your just going to have to take the pain....anyone sells 10% under bid needs their head checked out.

JrGMan2004 · February 16, 2004 9:09AM

Why? Greysheet and bluesheet prices are guides, they aren't etched in stone and everyone has to follow these exact prices or die... a dealer has to make a profit or else there is no use in even being a dealer... if you couldn't make a profit as a dealer, then there obviously would be almost no dealers in the world... now, if you two wish to continue bashing each other... please, take it to PMs...

EVillageProwler · February 16, 2004 9:24AM

Dlimb2,

I understand that you don't like the feeling of someone you perceive is trying to cheat or rip you. I'm sure I'd feel the same way as you. I hope you understand that the way of the world is that if you don't like the price offered to you by a dealer, then you are welcome to go to another. And, if you're looking for top dollar for your coins, then you'd best be selling them yourself. That way you get to cut out the "middle man" and make yourself a dealer for the moment.

You get to keep 100% of the return (minus any that go to Uncle Sam), but you also get to deal with all the hassle and do all the work.

Bottom line, however, is that whining about it is only short-term therapy. Please don't take that as an attack, because I've very loudly b1tched and moaned about a perceived injustice on many occassions. But, I also realize that all that moaning that I did was really just short-term therapy.

Good luck with however you choose to pursue this.

EVP

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 9:38AM

EVillageProwler, you are appreciated my man....I know as collectors we have coins at one time or another we would like to take profit in....there are honest and fair dealers and their are those we do not care to do business with....I am learning this yes sir ree...if we let the dealer take all the profit and make all the gains...then why do we collect at all...why is there a grading system applyed to the coins...some dealers only want to see it one way and it is their way...well I am not looking out for the dealer...I will be honest with a dealer only if he is honest with me....and it is sad to think in the past few years how dishonest the world as a whole has become...it sure would be nice if we could all believe in one another again.

Russ · February 16, 2004 10:00AM

<< if we let the dealer take all the profit and make all the gains...then why do we collect at all.. >>

For fun, maybe?

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time being sympathetic to your plight. You bought in when gold was at $258 an ounce and now you're calling the dealer a pig because he only offered you about a 50% profit while he's likely to make 15% or so?

Russ, NCNE

EVillageProwler · February 16, 2004 11:00AM

I know as collectors we have coins

Dlimb2,

If you are including me in the "we" that you used, I would ask that you not do that. I barely collect anymore, and was really trying to speak with you person to person. And, I like to post as often as I can so I can show off my girls in my sig!

EVP

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 11:15AM

EVillageProwler, why do you not collect any more? The We I was using was for collectors in general, not just you and I...Your girls are little cuties.

Conder101 · February 16, 2004 9:05PM

We also need to consider this. . .

<< He also happens to be the biggest buyer from the US mint... >>

If this is true then he probably has all of this piece that he needs and really doesn't want yours, or you may be asking more than he can get them for from the mint. (I don't follow the gold market so I can't say.)

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 9:34PM

Conder, I would imagine you are right about that...he wants you to give yours away but charges premium for his...I would rather deal with a smaller guy then them any day. They have a brand new building and a walk in vault that is huge. Wonder how they got that Brand New Building?

BillJones · February 16, 2004 9:45PM

<< Well I did not sell them...I will hold them...This has taught me a lesson about Big Houses...I bought the coins when gold was down at $258...a couple of years ago....I dont mind them making money but not at my expense....gold eagles sell for higher prices than gold bars...I will not deal with dealers who try to undermind collectors. >>

When you are buying and selling gold eagles the margins for those who really deal in them are very small. I don't deal in bullion and for that reason I have little interest in gold eagles. The up side is very small and the down side can be very large if the price of bullion drops.

My response to you if you asked if I would purchase your items would be to pass. I'd tell you that others would pay more than I would. If you twisted my arm and insisted that I give you an offer, 10% off of bid would be my BEST response. I just don't want those coins!

BTW are you one of those collectors who thinks that dealers should sell you choice coins at "bid" and pay "bid" to you when they buy the coins from you? If you are, you are living in a fantasy world.

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 9:57PM

"BTW are you one of those collectors who thinks that dealers should sell you choice coins at "bid" and pay "bid" to you when they buy the coins from you? If you are, you are living in a fantasy world."

No Bill Jones I am not one of those that want ot buy at bid and sell at bid...Maybe you work that way...since it was your brain child...There is a bid and ask used in the gold market for a reason...if a dealer does not want to buy my coins fine with me...just dont take advantage...maybe you dealers have lived in a fantasy world far to long and things need to change....I have found a very fair dealer and he is one that will continue to make it in the coin business...I learned along time ago honesty is the best policy.

puff · February 16, 2004 9:58PM

dlimb2........

I am a collector only, and as a collector I can tell you that you should not buy coins as an investment, and just about any reputable dealer will give you this same advice.

If you're truly a collector then collect coins for the hobby, and enjoyment of collecting them, not as a source for turning a profit.

If I were a dealer I would expect to make anywhere from at least 10 to 25% profit, depending on the coin(s) I were selling, and I can tell you as a retired businessman that this is a very exceptable profit margin in almost all businesses.

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 10:09PM

Puff, these were gold coins I bought back a couple of years ago...I bought them becuase gold was cheap at the time...I dont invest in gold....I collect low mintage and rare coins...I do have sets of coins which I will maintain as long as they continue to be minted...but I have learned through trial and error that the coins that maintain there value are the rare and low mintage...Trust me gold bullion is not my game...and I just have a few I hung on to after selling the majority to a dealer in California who bought my coins at bid....I went to this dealer just to see what he would give me for my coins...now I know why he has that Brand New Building and a huge walk in Vault.

Tassa · February 16, 2004 10:24PM

<< 

<< if we let the dealer take all the profit and make all the gains...then why do we collect at all.. >>

For fun, maybe?

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time being sympathetic to your plight. You bought in when gold was at $258 an ounce and now you're calling the dealer a pig because he only offered you about a 50% profit while he's likely to make 15% or so?

Russ, NCNE >>

I was thinking the same thing.

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 10:40PM

Example gold bullion is selling at $415 today.
............Gold eagles are selling at $430.90....Now the dealer gives me 10% less on the bid for gold bullion....I am selling gold eagles...now you figure it out. He is making far better than your 15% says he is.

Tassa · February 16, 2004 10:49PM

Why does it matter how much the dealer makes? You're still making a bigger profit than the dealer. If you don't want to take the dealer's offer, don't. Try selling it at bid or above yourself.
It's one thing if the dealer was being dishonest or trying to cheat you, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

LucyBop · February 16, 2004 10:58PM

right now, I'm having visions of the Southwest Airlines commercial....

"Wanna Get Away?"

dorkkarl · February 16, 2004 11:03PM

why are you going by greysheet? isn't that for dealers?

K S

MrEureka · February 16, 2004 11:13PM

why are you going by greysheet? isn't that for dealers?

Actually, it's for anyone that pays for a subscription.

MrEureka · February 16, 2004 11:15PM

BTW, I don't deal in bullion but I'd always be happy to pay 3% under spot for American Eagles.

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 11:17PM

My original question was..."I went to sell some gold last week at a dealer....he was going to charge 10% under bid...do most dealers work this way?...if they do it Suks. "

I was trying to get feedback from people, not to start a riot.

I chose not to sell my coins to him because I have a dealer who buys at bid...Yes I will be making a bigger profit, because I waited two long years for gold to reach this point in time...I find 10% under bid for gold bullion to be to low for gold eagles.

Merc · February 16, 2004 11:25PM

I have no problem with you wanting the most you can get when selling. I want the same thing too. Sell by whatever method gives you the best return.

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 11:26PM

Thnak You Merc for an honest answer...

LucyBop · February 16, 2004 11:28PM

<< I was trying to get feedback from people, not to start a riot. >>

Cat, any thread that gets started has the chance of starting a riot!

dlimb2 · February 16, 2004 11:30PM

Lucy, it sure seems that way...

hoardmonster · February 16, 2004 11:53PM

The dealer can only pay what he can afford to pay and make a profit. Dealers have overhead. And they and their families gotta eat too. You shouldn't sell them for less than you want. But it seems to me that the dealer is just trying to make an honest living. That sure doesn't make him a pig in my book.

BillJones · February 17, 2004 12:21AM

Yes, it would appear that dlimb2 is one of those folks who dislikes all coin dealers. While there are some bad actors in the trade, painting everyone with the same brush will not improve his chances of doing well or enjoying the hobby.

BillJones · February 17, 2004 12:31AM

<< My original question was..."I went to sell some gold last week at a dealer....he was going to charge 10% under bid...do most dealers work this way?...if they do it Suks. "

I was trying to get feedback from people, not to start a riot.

I chose not to sell my coins to him because I have a dealer who buys at bid...Yes I will be making a bigger profit, because I waited two long years for gold to reach this point in time...I find 10% under bid for gold bullion to be to low for gold eagles. >>

And I gave you your feedback. Dealers specialize in this business, and some dealers can pay more for certain coins than others. One of the arts of selling coins to dealers is to have a good idea who the best people are for certain pieces. If you go to a show and a guy as got a case full of early copper coins, chances are he's not going to be the high bidder for gold eagles. Does that make him a crook? No. You have to pick the places were it's best to sell what you have.

If a guy as got a case full of bullion gold, then perhaps you have found the right person. Gold prices have been volitile of late, and Gray Sheet bids are published at one point in time. If the spot price is lower than it was when the Gray Sheet numbers were published, the price you get will be lower prices. Gold eagles are not really numismatic items; they are bullion items and the market is quite different.

At any rate no one is under an obligation to buy your coins at the published prices. This is not the New York Stock Exchange were there are trading rules and market supports.

dlimb2 · February 17, 2004 12:46AM

"This is not the New York Stock Exchange were there are trading rules and market supports. "

Would not be a bad idea if some rules were put into place.

dlimb2 · February 17, 2004 12:47AM

Try buying a Gold Eagle at bullion prices...I would like to see that one.

Coin Dealers

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