I was trying to get feedback from people, not to start a riot.
It seemed to me as if you started a thread to vent and to slam. You started this thread in quite the incendiary tone. I think it's a bit late to try to deflect culpability.
Moreover, I agree with those who feel that you behaved inappropriately in this thread. You behaved as if you have a large chip against dealers in general, and that -- once again, in general -- dealers owe you something.
Clearly many dealers are not above reproach. But, you need to examine your actions as well -- both in how you tried to transact and how you reacted to the situation.
From my vantage point, I see Bill Jones as an honest, highly respected, and knowledgeable dealer who gave this troll some legitimate feedback as requested and ended up getting harpooned!
Bottom line is: If you don't like the price offered, move along. The dealer has his own reasons for the level of the offer and is under as much obligation to explain them to you as you are to sell him your coins.
I understand your frustration but I think Billjones gave you the best advice you could get. Find a dealer that specializes in what you are selling......you'll get the max. profit for your coins there.
Edited to add: or better yet. sell it back to the dealer you bought it from (if possible). Our "buyback" for coins we've sold is always fair in our opinion.
Thank You Bill Jones and rkfish, yes I understand what you are saying and I have done just that...I appreciate your time spent on this thread. Some seem to think I have harpooned you but that was not the intention. as some have a way of distorting things...Thank You again.
Sometimes people will call or approach me with a similar attitude. They generally get the brush off which is what my guess is what happened here.
Be nice. We don't have to buy your coins. That also works on the selling end too. There are those who I bend over backward for to accomadate on price and sometimes even sell at cost or do a flip for them at cost because of how they present themselves. I'm personally delighted to do this as when I started, my mentor did the same for me and I'll never forget it. ( and that was 25 years ago!)
Then there are guys who call with an attitude to whom my reply is simply "I don't do those".
mrearlygold, with your attitude I would not send my worst ememy to buy from you even if you were the only dealer for miles around...I would travel the extra miles.
<< <i>mrearlygold, with your attitude I would not send my worst ememy to buy from you even if you were the only dealer for miles around...I would travel the extra miles. >>
Thank you. You know, I posted on this thread and really thought you were joking. You took that as sarcasm which it wasn't. But you chose to attack me anyway.
Ditto, Conder...Some people wouldn't be happy if you gave them "ASK" AND a kiss! There will always be those with the predisposed notion that they're screwed as soon as they walk up to a dealer's table or into their shop.
I do business with several dealers and I have no problems negotiating. I've always walked away from the table happy and likewise the dealer. After all, they're my coins and I don't have to sell them for what is offered. You just can't be too thin-skinned in this hobby.
By the way the name of the dealer was or is the GOLD CENTER...Big old Gold Letters on the outside of the building...I guess they deal in only clad coins.
<< <i>I learned along time ago honesty is the best policy. >>
And what, precisely, was dishonest about this dealer's offer? It sounds like a pretty straightforward deal to me. He offered, you declined, end of discussion.
<< <i>He is making far better than your 15% says he is. >>
Yeah, I'm sure he gets free rent, free phone, free electric, free marketing, free help and the IRS lets him off on his taxes. Learning a little something about how a business operates would go a long way toward more intelligent discourse.
Not my fault he spent a couple of million on a building and a large half acre vault...now is it...you want me to pay for his extrvigance...sorry not me...end of discussion.
He can offer 10% under bid and that's his prerogative. You can refuse and that's yours.
The real question is: Why are you trying to sell to a dealer? Dealers are in business to profit from you. There are auction sites available where you're selling to collectors - a much better option. Collector's access to these auctions will close the spread on dealer's markups - and close down the unreasonable ones.
10% back of bid seems excessive to me, especially with a commodity that defines liquidity such as gold. Heck he could probably sell that gold coin the same day. I don't blame you at all. But, the learning experience here is not to even offer material to dealers.
<< <i>Not my fault he spent a couple of million on a building and a large half acre vault...now is it...you want me to pay for his extrvigance...sorry not me...end of discussion. >>
Whether or not a dealer has a 100 square foot office or a two million dollar building with a half acre vault, he also has ongoing overhead. Rent or mortgage payment, electricity, phones, advertising, internet service, security, cleaning, employees, and that little thing called the cost of money for his inventory all add up. Added to that, it costs money to handle the item. The dealer might have a computerized inventory sysytem, so it costs money for data entry. He has to invoice the item. He may have to ship the coin to some other part of the country and wait to get paid. There are no doubt other costs that you are unaware of. To rag on a dealer who offers you a reasonably fair price is moronic. Maybe you didn't like what he offered, but it's not like he offered half of what it was worth.
If you want to rag on someone for an excessive markup, consider your local grocery store where the markup is over 100%, or the local clothing, jewelry or furniture store where 200% is not uncommon. How do you think they build those big, fancy buildings? Do you go into your grocery store and counter offer on your two bags of food?
I used to have a retail store and just loved customers like dlimb2. They wanted me to be there for their convenience and they wanted me to carry a huge inventory, but they didn't think that I should be allowed to make a living. People like him wanted to buy everything at Blue Sheet and sell it at Grey Sheet, and in this world, that just isn't possible.
So, dlimb2, if you want the last nickel from your gold eagle, or whatever it was, you need to do ALL of the work. You need to find the buyer, make sure his check is good and do the deal. Just don't go into a retail establishment and expect them to do all of the work for you and not make something on the transaction, because if you are that type of customer, they don't want you.
Dear Mikiey, nore would I want to do business with your kind...there are to many honest dealers out there...so if you have that 2 million dollar building and that 1/2 acre vault...I wish you luck in paying for it...for I will not be the one to pay for your extravigance.
People like Mikiey, think people like us coincollectors don't have bills to pay or mouths to feed either....so I guess we collectors should feel sorry for these poor dealers and allow them our profits just so they can feed their family while ours do without...such a sad sad song.
Do you own your own business? If so, then why is it so hard for you to understand what folks like Storeim and Bill Jones are saying to you? If you don't own your own biz, then why don't you ask your employer about his operational costs and the concept of buying and selling in a free and open market? I assume that what you hear from your employer you'd accept with less hostility...
so I guess we collectors should feel sorry for these poor dealers and allow them our profits just so they can feed their family while ours do without
If you want to maximize your return, then you need to deal with the entirety of selling (and buying ... to get a good sese of a true two-way market). I don't know if you realize it, but you're already seeing some of the challenges of being your own businessman: knowing how much and to whom to sell your merchandise, and dealig with a cacophony of "retail" opinions on your actions. Yes, you got it! Just like how you love to critique the actions of "those dealers", others will be around eagerly to offer you theirs. The difference is that the dealers never asked for your opinion. Yet, you asked for ours...
You have 100 bullion coins for sale? Forgive me for saying so, that means that you were/are motivated by greed. (I'm not saying that greed is bad or anything, and I certainly don't mean to sound like Gordon Gekko!)
So, then, why are you so upset that a dealer is also motivated by greed? He wants to maximize his business, similar to your wanting to maximize your return.
One more thing... If people sell him coins in quantity, why would it be so hard for you to understand that he needs a sizable vault? And, insurance? And, security?
How would you be able to reduce his cost? You say that he's gouging you. Well, suggest to us how he can do better and still stay in business.
<< <i>...there are to many honest dealers out there... >>
Again, exactly what was dishonest about this dealer's offer? Did he try and lie to you about the value of gold? Tell you it's really only $350 an ounce? Tell you that your coins were fake? That they were damaged? If you're going to question someone's honesty, I'd suggest that it'd be a good idea to have a hell of a lot better reason than simply the fact that you want 60% profit instead of 50%.
I am under the notion that you asked the message board for its opinion. I am a member here, and I did not realize that you were only looking for concurring opinions.
My apologies for not reading your initial post more carefully.
<< <i>I am under the notion that you asked the message board for its opinion. I am a member here, and I did not realize that you were only looking for concurring opinions. >>
its POW! Right in the Frankies to the first Cat whom slams my Rainbow Green Winged Liberty!
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>Dear Mikiey, nore would I want to do business with your kind...there are to many honest dealers out there...so if you have that 2 million dollar building and that 1/2 acre vault...I wish you luck in paying for it...for I will not be the one to pay for your extravigance. >>
So, dlimb2, you imply that I am not being honest.
I point out that as dealers we all have overhead. I point out that other businesses have higher markups than we do. I point out that I didn't like to have customers like you.
And, finally, I point out that if you want all the money, you should be prepared to do all the work.
Kindly point out where I am not being honest with you.
Oh, I get it, you can't handle the truth.
And my vault is not 1/2 of an acre, it's just slightly over 1/3 of an acre. (but it's four stories tall)
It is obvious that dlimb2 has his eyes shut to reality. Yes, I defend everything Mike Storeim says and then some. I'll accept the heat of my having a "dealer mentality".
However, if you really want to whine and don't like how your treated as a seller-go collect comic books, antiques, or jewelry (just to name a few other areas). In MOST other collectables there is NO real liquidity-you have to hope your item does well in auction. If you got offered anywhere near 10% less of any sheet (the AVG mark up in those areas is 40-50%-in many cases with mark ups as high as 100%), you would be hitting a home run.
The rare coin market is one of the most liquid and "tight" spread markets of ANY collectable anywhere.
WAKE UP TO THAT FACT!
Laura Sperber
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
Yeah well we collectors know the truth...its you dealers who wish we stay ignorant. How did you get those expensive building and huge vaults...gosh I could not begin to guess.
This thread is ridiculous (I know, this makes me a target to be called a liar)!
Owner of 10 oz of gold (100 $5 eagles) wants to sell his bullion to dealer A. Dealer A offers price 10% back of bid. Owner of bullion declines.
What should happen next...
Owner of bullion visits other dealers in town. Better yet, Owner of bullion searches internet, asks friends on message board or coin club where is the best place for a collector/investor to sell bullion coins. I would have told Owner in the first place where to take the coins to get a good price, exactly where I got a good price when I sold almost the exact same amount of bullion last month.
Instead...
Owner slams Dealer A for being a dishonest scumbag (scumbag is my word, not Owner's) and then proceeds to trash everyone who does not agree with his viewpoint (and that is the majority of posters).
Loser, I think you dealers will be the ones to lose and thats why you jumped this thread...gotta pay for that building and when things slack off well how the bills going to get paid, how is that building going to get paid for...yeah you have big overhead...I would say way over your head...
Comments
It seemed to me as if you started a thread to vent and to slam. You started this thread in quite the incendiary tone. I think it's a bit late to try to deflect culpability.
Moreover, I agree with those who feel that you behaved inappropriately in this thread. You behaved as if you have a large chip against dealers in general, and that -- once again, in general -- dealers owe you something.
Clearly many dealers are not above reproach. But, you need to examine your actions as well -- both in how you tried to transact and how you reacted to the situation.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Bottom line is: If you don't like the price offered, move along. The dealer has his own reasons for the level of the offer and is under as much obligation to explain them to you as you are to sell him your coins.
Just my eversohumble opinion...
Cheers,
Bob
I understand your frustration but I think Billjones gave you the best advice you could get.
Find a dealer that specializes in what you are selling......you'll get the max. profit for your coins there.
Edited to add: or better yet. sell it back to the dealer you bought it from (if possible). Our "buyback" for coins we've sold is always fair in our opinion.
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
Be nice. We don't have to buy your coins. That also works on the selling end too. There are those who I bend over backward for to accomadate on price and sometimes even sell at cost or do a flip for them at cost because of how they present themselves. I'm personally delighted to do this as when I started, my mentor did the same for me and I'll never forget it. ( and that was 25 years ago!)
Then there are guys who call with an attitude to whom my reply is simply "I don't do those".
Be happy. It's a wonderful life.
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>mrearlygold, with your attitude I would not send my worst ememy to buy from you even if you were the only dealer for miles around...I would travel the extra miles. >>
Thank you. You know, I posted on this thread and really thought you were joking. You took that as sarcasm which it wasn't. But you chose to attack me anyway.
Good luck.
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
With your attitude I'm sorry you don't do the type of material I collect because I think we would get along just fine.
I do business with several dealers and I have no problems negotiating. I've always walked away from the table happy and likewise the dealer. After all, they're my coins and I don't have to sell them for what is offered. You just can't be too thin-skinned in this hobby.
Cheers,
Bob
<< <i>I learned along time ago honesty is the best policy. >>
And what, precisely, was dishonest about this dealer's offer? It sounds like a pretty straightforward deal to me. He offered, you declined, end of discussion.
<< <i>He is making far better than your 15% says he is. >>
Yeah, I'm sure he gets free rent, free phone, free electric, free marketing, free help and the IRS lets him off on his taxes. Learning a little something about how a business operates would go a long way toward more intelligent discourse.
Russ, NCNE
The real question is: Why are you trying to sell to a dealer? Dealers are in business to profit from you. There are auction sites available where you're selling to collectors - a much better option. Collector's access to these auctions will close the spread on dealer's markups - and close down the unreasonable ones.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Do you think the 1795 SE Five is overvalued?
<< <i>Not my fault he spent a couple of million on a building and a large half acre vault...now is it...you want me to pay for his extrvigance...sorry not me...end of discussion. >>
Whether or not a dealer has a 100 square foot office or a two million dollar building with a half acre vault, he also has ongoing overhead. Rent or mortgage payment, electricity, phones, advertising, internet service, security, cleaning, employees, and that little thing called the cost of money for his inventory all add up. Added to that, it costs money to handle the item. The dealer might have a computerized inventory sysytem, so it costs money for data entry. He has to invoice the item. He may have to ship the coin to some other part of the country and wait to get paid. There are no doubt other costs that you are unaware of. To rag on a dealer who offers you a reasonably fair price is moronic. Maybe you didn't like what he offered, but it's not like he offered half of what it was worth.
If you want to rag on someone for an excessive markup, consider your local grocery store where the markup is over 100%, or the local clothing, jewelry or furniture store where 200% is not uncommon. How do you think they build those big, fancy buildings? Do you go into your grocery store and counter offer on your two bags of food?
I used to have a retail store and just loved customers like dlimb2. They wanted me to be there for their convenience and they wanted me to carry a huge inventory, but they didn't think that I should be allowed to make a living. People like him wanted to buy everything at Blue Sheet and sell it at Grey Sheet, and in this world, that just isn't possible.
So, dlimb2, if you want the last nickel from your gold eagle, or whatever it was, you need to do ALL of the work. You need to find the buyer, make sure his check is good and do the deal. Just don't go into a retail establishment and expect them to do all of the work for you and not make something on the transaction, because if you are that type of customer, they don't want you.
One question
How many 1/10th oz. gold eagles were you selling?
Do you own your own business? If so, then why is it so hard for you to understand what folks like Storeim and Bill Jones are saying to you? If you don't own your own biz, then why don't you ask your employer about his operational costs and the concept of buying and selling in a free and open market? I assume that what you hear from your employer you'd accept with less hostility...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Say What'Cha Gonna do.....When the Joints on Fire.....
We'll Rock'n Bop and take it up alittle bit Higher!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
If you want to maximize your return, then you need to deal with the entirety of selling (and buying ... to get a good sese of a true two-way market). I don't know if you realize it, but you're already seeing some of the challenges of being your own businessman: knowing how much and to whom to sell your merchandise, and dealig with a cacophony of "retail" opinions on your actions. Yes, you got it! Just like how you love to critique the actions of "those dealers", others will be around eagerly to offer you theirs. The difference is that the dealers never asked for your opinion. Yet, you asked for ours...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
You have 100 bullion coins for sale? Forgive me for saying so, that means that you were/are motivated by greed. (I'm not saying that greed is bad or anything, and I certainly don't mean to sound like Gordon Gekko!)
So, then, why are you so upset that a dealer is also motivated by greed? He wants to maximize his business, similar to your wanting to maximize your return.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
How would you be able to reduce his cost? You say that he's gouging you. Well, suggest to us how he can do better and still stay in business.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
his 100 coins equal 10 ozs. of gold. These coins were bought at $258 a OZ. His profit would have been pretty good at even 10% back of bid.
I have to admit I would have shopped around for the difference in price he would have left on the table by selling at 10% back.
<< <i>...there are to many honest dealers out there... >>
Again, exactly what was dishonest about this dealer's offer? Did he try and lie to you about the value of gold? Tell you it's really only $350 an ounce? Tell you that your coins were fake? That they were damaged? If you're going to question someone's honesty, I'd suggest that it'd be a good idea to have a hell of a lot better reason than simply the fact that you want 60% profit instead of 50%.
Russ, NCNE
My apologies for not reading your initial post more carefully.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>I am under the notion that you asked the message board for its opinion. I am a member here, and I did not realize that you were only looking for concurring opinions.
>>
its POW! Right in the Frankies to the first Cat whom slams my Rainbow Green Winged Liberty!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>Dear Mikiey, nore would I want to do business with your kind...there are to many honest dealers out there...so if you have that 2 million dollar building and that 1/2 acre vault...I wish you luck in paying for it...for I will not be the one to pay for your extravigance. >>
So, dlimb2, you imply that I am not being honest.
I point out that as dealers we all have overhead.
I point out that other businesses have higher markups than we do.
I point out that I didn't like to have customers like you.
And, finally, I point out that if you want all the money, you should be prepared to do all the work.
Kindly point out where I am not being honest with you.
Oh, I get it, you can't handle the truth.
And my vault is not 1/2 of an acre, it's just slightly over 1/3 of an acre. (but it's four stories tall)
However, if you really want to whine and don't like how your treated as a seller-go collect comic books, antiques, or jewelry (just to name a few other areas). In MOST other collectables there is NO real liquidity-you have to hope your item does well in auction. If you got offered anywhere near 10% less of any sheet (the AVG mark up in those areas is 40-50%-in many cases with mark ups as high as 100%), you would be hitting a home run.
The rare coin market is one of the most liquid and "tight" spread markets of ANY collectable anywhere.
WAKE UP TO THAT FACT!
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>don't like how your treated as a seller-go collect comic books, >>
Them Comic Book Cats are well aware of the HepKitten, I just got more high grade 1950s/ early 60s Archies back from grading today.....
Looking for the HepKitty pedigree..... Those Cats will pay up for them......
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Owner of 10 oz of gold (100 $5 eagles) wants to sell his bullion to dealer A.
Dealer A offers price 10% back of bid.
Owner of bullion declines.
What should happen next...
Owner of bullion visits other dealers in town.
Better yet, Owner of bullion searches internet, asks friends on message board or coin club where is the best place for a collector/investor to sell bullion coins. I would have told Owner in the first place where to take the coins to get a good price, exactly where I got a good price when I sold almost the exact same amount of bullion last month.
Instead...
Owner slams Dealer A for being a dishonest scumbag (scumbag is my word, not Owner's) and then proceeds to trash everyone who does not agree with his viewpoint (and that is the majority of posters).
Does that about sum it up?
Be bop a lula!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Too bad about censorship.
Now, get outta my vault. I got to put my gold eagle away.
<< <i>Does that about sum it up? >>
I thought it was a Comic Collecting thread...???
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com