Ken Pines (Coast to Coast) expelled from the ANA.

DHeath · December 15, 2003 9:44AM

In this month's Numismatist on page 93 I found the following blurb;

"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees."

Go ANA!

Don Heath
ANA R-205892

Russ · December 15, 2003 9:49AM

Maybe they read all the posts about them here.

Russ, NCNE

Tootawl · December 15, 2003 9:49AM

Now if they can only go after half the people on Ebay.

cointagious · December 15, 2003 9:51AM

ken pines needs the ana like russ needs kennedy halves.

merz2 · December 15, 2003 9:52AM

Why doesn't this surprise me ?

They have been notorious for sliders,wizzed,cleaned.There has been numorious threads as Russ has pointed out.What took so long ?

DAM · December 15, 2003 10:07AM

That's funny.

One down, how many others to go? At least they got serious with one. The problem is there's so many coins in the market of the type he is selling, it's hard not to sell them.

Of course, the underlying issue is being dishonest about it.

Impedimentus · December 15, 2003 10:16AM

Is ERNIE next?

ARCO · December 15, 2003 10:17AM

I bought my first coin from Coast to Coast last week. Normally I NEVER buy sight unseen because I prefer coins with that certain original look. I bought a VF 1904-O Barber Half. It was chrome bumper shiney (which is useless to me), but it was graded properly and the price wasn't too bad. I probably pissed $40.00 bucks away taking a chance.

Oh well.

Tyler

jbsteven · December 15, 2003 10:29AM

<< chrome bumper shiney >>

coinkat · December 15, 2003 10:39AM

chrome bumper shiney (which is useless to me)

Thats because you don't own a 1959 Cadillac...

dlimb2 · December 15, 2003 10:48AM

Wish the SEC was more Like the ANA.

tgilliams · December 15, 2003 10:50AM

Now onto Others!

darktone · December 15, 2003 11:05AM

yes, what about the others? Those coin newspapers are filled with these garbage dealers. mike

nwcs · December 15, 2003 11:53AM

Perhaps this is the direction the ANA is going now with the new leadership?

airplanenut · December 15, 2003 11:53AM

<< 

<< chrome bumper shiney >>

>>

Laugh on, Mr. potato-rainbow-man

jbsteven · December 15, 2003 11:55AM

<< Mr. potato-rainbow-man >>

At least you got the Mr. thing right youngster.

dpoole · December 15, 2003 11:55AM

Perhaps this is the direction the ANA is going now with the new leadership?

Boy, I hope that's what it means. This sort of thing has been going on for ages under ANA's nose, with nary a peep.

Skipper53 · December 15, 2003 12:07PM

This news made my day !!!
I wrote Coin World a couple months ago about the many coins
Ken Pines sold me when I was a Newbie that graded several grades
less than advertised and even got bodybagged for cleaning .
I got a polite resonse that they had only had two complaints this year !
They also suggested that I do a better job at evaluating coins I bought
from Coast to Coast !!!

Well, seems the ANA doesn't get taken as easily buy advertising dollars .
My membership check to ANA is in the mail !

Hope this sends a wake-up call to other rip-off dealers who prey on
novice coin collectors.

Skipper

TWQG · December 15, 2003 12:18PM

I'm on page 91 in the membership report

Skipper53 · December 15, 2003 12:51PM

Hey, it just dawned on me; they caught Saddam and Ken Pines on the same day !
Don't things happen in three's ? Maybe Bin Laden is next !

Then Paul Sims..

Justice !

Catch22 · December 15, 2003 1:09PM

...and just exactly how long has Coast to Coast been fleecing the public through the Coin World ads?
Our hobby's most influential periodical.

Coast to Coast will continue doing business as Coast to Coast Coins and Used Cars.

ccex · December 15, 2003 1:44PM

I admit I let my Coin World subscription lapse, especially since they send me CW Trends in magazine form for free. I doubt CW will refuse Coast to Coast advertising revenue, or advertising revenue from Paul Sims, Mt. Vernon Coin, Coin Depot, NTC, PCI, and some of their other mainstays. Do they still publish Accugrade ads?

I don't expect that the ANA's recent decision will affect Ken Pines' advertising one bit, unless he tries to insert an ANA logo.

Skipper53 · December 15, 2003 1:46PM

Yes Catch22, a friend of mine was seeing Coast to Coast ads 10 years ago.
If the law starts closing in , he'll just back off and sell "ancient coins" or
proof sets for a while until the heat is off and he'll be back to his old tricks.

We, who have been ripped, should always alert new collectors to the potential
of being tricked and robbed by this type of "glossy advertisment" dealer.

JohnZ · December 15, 2003 2:17PM

Whewww. I never bought from Coast to Coast, but I was often tempted by the ads in CW.

oreville · December 15, 2003 2:42PM

There is a God!

BigE · December 15, 2003 3:07PM

So how is this expulsion going to hurt him? No more ANA logo, will he still be able to advertise in Coin World-big deal?---------------------------------------------BigE

cosmicdebris · December 15, 2003 8:03PM

I'll admit it I brought several Wavy French Frans from him but only because they were new issues and still in the mint capsules. HE had the best prices around for these. I would never buy anything old and raw from him.

wingedliberty · December 15, 2003 8:20PM

This is excellent news indeed. Thanks for sharing it. Its about time this guy got expelled.

Boom · December 15, 2003 8:25PM

I'll admit it too, I gave every major dealer a trial run with a minor purchase and EVERYONE of them suck! Several times I wrote letters to the Editor that made it to print! To one of the previous Board Members that was told there had only been 2 prior complaints...MY BIG toe. I wrote to Beth Deisher about Ken Pines and all her little trash dealers till I wrote it completely out my system! That was the day I swore I WOULD NEVER -EVER purchase another Gem Brilliant Uncirculated slider again, and from that day on I have not bought a raw coin unless I picked it out myself at a coin shop or show,scrutinized under proper lighting and with a loupe! What REALLY pissed me off is when David Sundman of Littleton's Clip Shop won the ANA'S President's Award for "promoting the hobby" a couple years ago!-I wanted to quit the ANA.Boy,did that ever reek of "contributions"/"ill gotten gains". The only thing Sundman promoted was his Bank Account!

IrishMike · December 15, 2003 11:00PM

I purchased 5 IHC's from them over the years. One was advertised as BU and the other 4 AU. They had a return privilege so I felt ok buying from them. In fact the AU coin I purchased from Ebay and then started getting their catalogue. I decided to submit the BU 1907 to PCGS for grading. It now resides in a PR 64 RB holder and on a different day might make a 65, not that I care. I paid less than 63 money for the coin to begin with. The other 4 cents are in my album and have received some nice compliments from other collectors.

If I had been unhappy with any of them I would have returned them. It pains me to hear that some collectors got altered and overgraded coins. I just wonder why they weren't returned. This is not a defense of them just a recital of my experiences with them.

GOLDSAINT · December 15, 2003 11:28PM

Who has their Ebay link so we can look?

MadMarty · December 15, 2003 11:33PM

Maybe the junk mail will now stop, I have asked twice to be removed from the mailing list, but the crap mail still comes in!

DHeath · December 15, 2003 11:55PM

Mike,

I glad your experience isn't like mine. I bought a "gem BU" 32-D Washington from them several years ago for an unrealistically low price ($495 I think), and was shipped the ugliest whizzer I'd ever seen. After a few minutes on the phone trying to return the coin, I was convinced to exchange it for another nicer 32-D. The second coin was whizzed too, and returned. In that same order, I kept one lesser coin that wasn't as noticeable, mistaking it for an overgraded AU. PCGS bagged it as a whizzer.

I'm sure they're fine for bullion and recent mint products, but caveat emptor.

bushmaster8 · December 16, 2003 12:10AM

<< So how is this expulsion going to hurt him? No more ANA logo, will he still be able to advertise in Coin World-big deal?---------------------------------------------BigE >>

No more ANA logo?? Don't be so sure! Some years ago R&I Coins was putting the PNG logo in all of their Coin World advertisements. He was not and never has been a PNG member!!! So it will be totally up to the ANA to keep an eye on Ken Pines and make sure he does not "steal" the ANA logo. Obviously, CW does not verify membership in professional organizations.

(BTW- It took a phone call from Brueggman, the Pres. of PNG, to stop Rick Tomaska's abuse of the PNG logo.)

kranky · December 16, 2003 1:07AM

Tomaska is a member now (since July, I believe).

newsman · December 16, 2003 1:10AM

Great news!

Now let's see what CW writes about it.

paigowjohnny · December 16, 2003 1:21AM

<< It pains me to hear that some collectors got altered and overgraded coins. I just wonder why they weren't returned. >>

I'll tell you exactly why....as a textbook victim. Those guys thrive off the newbs and inexperienced collectors. I started buying from them early on....and with my level of knowledge at the time...I got some really beautiful shiny Morgans and Walkers. Sure it was funny that they all seemed to have "weak strikes"...but they really looked nice otherwise. I frankly didn't know better to send it back. I paid for lower grade (select BU) uncs, and that's exactly what I thought I got...until I finally started to read a book and talk to more experienced collectors and other "victims".

Sure...shame on me for not knowing enough before diving in....and shame on me for not doubting the repute of an advertiser(s) in the major coin mags...but it sure is nice to see this.

P.S....after all that happened to ACG, I don't know how CoinWorld can justify still running their ads under their standing advertising policy.

pqgold · December 16, 2003 1:24AM

I wish the ANA would publish a list of the people, who have been expelled, on their website. I may be wrong, but it seems as though you have to be extremely unethical, crooked, etc. to be expelled, so if someone is expelled, it would be a great benefit to coin collectors to know their name.
Being expelled from the ANA, obviosly does not even slow down unethical dealers. They continue on, without most people knowing that they have been expelled.
A perfect example being one of the largest coin wholesalers in the USA today. As far as I can tell, being expelled from the ANA did not change this persons ethics, nor did it hurt him financially.
Print their names on the ANA site!!! Better yet print their names in Coinworld !!!

bushmaster8 · December 16, 2003 1:32AM

<< Now let's see what CW writes about it. >>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

baccaruda · December 16, 2003 1:32AM

I'm not sure being "expelled from the ANA" is going to help anyone in this situation.

Do you think anyone who would mail-order coins from ANYONE in the coin-rag sales ads is going to notice the lack of a little ANA symbol next to their name? The fleecing is going to continue.

I was laughing and talking with an old guy in a coin store downtown a couple weeks ago. Then he started telling me about the incredible deals he always gets buying Morgan dollars through the sales ads. I just told him he needs to be really careful with what he gets through the mail. I knew he'd likely been ripped off, but what do you do?

DHeath · December 16, 2003 1:46AM

I figure the best thing I can do is spread the news. In the past, I've been pretty frustrated by the ANA's unwillingness to act. If they are willing to be a collector advocate, I'm more than happy to do what I can to support that effort. This board has a pretty robust readership.

1jester · December 16, 2003 2:05AM

I bought a lot of sliders and whizzed and cleaned and recolored coins from them and Paul Sims back when I started "investing" in coins, in 1990. Experience is a good teacher, I suppose, but it's a hard road. I'm glad he's been expelled.

kranky · December 16, 2003 2:07AM

It's always a good thing when it becomes more and more useful to be able to say "Make sure your dealer is an ANA member". I do agree that some folks won't notice the lack of an ANA logo in an ad, but for those who do look, they will benefit.

Kudos to the ANA and hopefully the momentum will continue. Let the shady dealers either find a new line of work or straighten up. My guess is that they will straighten up.

pqgold · December 16, 2003 2:18AM

Losing the ANA logo, does'nt mean diddly squat to large coin dealer/wholesalers. Publishing their names, so most collectors know what kind of people they are will cause them bad publicity and maybe a drop in their sales. All they care about is a fast buck, so hit them where it hurts.

MadMonk · December 16, 2003 2:35AM

cool!

ScarsdaleCoin · December 16, 2003 4:05AM

I wonder which would have more bite to it...losing ANA logo or being kicked out as an advertiser in Coin World and other mags????

BillJones · December 16, 2003 4:19AM

Ken Pines gets the ANA ax?

Well there is a god after all...

Don't be a bit surprised if he rises from the dead and gets back in the ANA, however.

It's happened before.

kranky · December 16, 2003 5:11AM

<< I wonder which would have more bite to it...losing ANA logo or being kicked out as an advertiser in Coin World and other mags???? >>

What would be sweet is if the ANA had half-page ads in each CW and NN issue listing the people who have been expelled. I know that's unrealistic due to cost, but I would get a kick out of it.

northcoin · December 16, 2003 5:13AM

"Chrome Bumper Shiney" I was sure somewhere on this thread we would be hearing from Lucy with a closeup of the bumper on her vintage auto.

RiffRaff1967 · December 16, 2003 5:14AM

I was almost sucked in by their ad when I first started - glad I read about them on this forum first!

I'm sure as stated by others that this will not stop them, but I hope it hurts them a little bit. I agree with the idea of a list of ANA expelled members, and why. This may help us newbie's. But then again, I learn more from this forum....if there are newbies out there that only look at the ads, they will probably continue to be scammed.

BillJones · December 16, 2003 5:30AM

These big time Coin World hucksters are a double whammy for the hobby. They rip-off naïve collectors, and they ruin decent coins forever.

I wish they would go into the used car business and leave us alone.

Ken Pines (Coast to Coast) expelled from the ANA.

Comments

Leave a Comment