Conder101: David Hall slab?

kieferscoins

This seems to have come from one of David Hall's investment groups? It is "certified" (heat sealed David Hall) on top and the most interesting part of it is, he has the PCGS number arranged like they are on the PCGS slab. coin#.grade/cert#. Did that mean these numbers were thought up way before PCGS was even born and he just switched it over to the new company?

Have you seen this type before? Does it qualify as a slab?





Cameron Kiefer

FrattLaw

Hey rip that out and send it into PCGS and let's see if David Hall's NUmismatic Investment Group was right on with a MS65 grade.

Michael

Steve27

I tried the "slab number" in the PCGS cert verification, but that number comes up with a 1892 $10 MS62. Too bad, it would have been interesting if was in the PCGS database.

kieferscoins

I didn't even think about checking it in the database, but since it wasn't PCGS graded, I would have guessed it is not in there.

I think it is a great MS-65 coin.

Cameron Kiefer

kieferscoins

Anyone see any other ones like this?

Cameron Kiefer

Conder101

I've had one of those for some time, about three years. I've never really been able to come to a decision about it. Is it a slab since the grade is "certified", or is it just a dealers stock flip? Would the David Hall Investment Group have certified and placed in these flips coins from other collectors or dealers? Or did they just use them for their own stock? I think they were probably just for their own stock. I have to admit I never considered the resemblance of the serial number arrangement. Does the 3984 correspond to a 1938-D Buffalo nickel under PCGS? Either way these probably deserve at least a place in the Miscellaneous section as an early first step in the creation of PCGS. i didn't include it in the first edition because I just treated it as a dealer flip. With the serial number connection I can see that it should a place in the book.

kieferscoins

Yes it does. I just looked it up and the 3984 is used for a 1938-D buffalo in the PCGS numbering system. The font type is nearlly identical to that of a PCGS 1 slab.

Cameron Kiefer

Johnscoin

I saw about 4 or 5 of them and 2 of them were more like 64s, but it was interesting to see them vacuum sealed and all.

numispro

BS (before slabs), That's how David packaged the coins he sold.

I never mind buying collections with these in them as they usually grade the same or higher these days.

kieferscoins

Numispro: Do you think there are alot of them left or most of them opened and submitted when PCGS started?

Cameron Kiefer

homerunhall

Cameron,

What you have is the beginning of the PCGS idea. In 1982, DHNIG started making a market in a wide range of coins and guaranteeing to buy back any coin we sold at a price comensurate with the grade. We guarantee to always have a buy price for every coin we sold. It was quite a revolutionary idea for the time (one major dealer who is still active told me at the time that this was impossible and we would go bankrupt...what happened was that he went bankrupt!) We sealed the coins to be sure they wouldn't be switched. This idea was expanded to include sonically sealed holders and coins from other dealers inventory not just DHNIG, i.e. this idea was expanded into PCGS. There are several looks to these sealed holders. The first ones were circa 1982, the last ones were probably from 1987. You have one of the later models. We did well over $50,000,000 worth of coins this way. I believe the majority of them were turned into PCGS for grading by the DHNIG customers shortly after PCGS was launched. Most of the coins we sold as MS65 will grade MS65 or 66 at PCGS today. A few grade lower, a few grade higher.

David

kieferscoins

Thanks Mr. Hall for the great answer. Do you know the different examples of the different holder models or were the same type sealing with just a different label? I am going to keep my eyes open and try to see if I can pick up an earlier type. It is a great coin and would be a easy 65 by PCGS standards.

Cameron Kiefer

numispro

Cameron,

I still see them from time to time, usually in an Estate situation.

David,

Sometimes those old 65's of yours grade 67! (and in one case that I know of, 68!)

airplanenut

Thanks for the great info, Mr. Hall!

Gilbert

Mr Keifer,

I had acquired a Franklin proof in this type of "insert," but I removed it and I believe submitted it to PCGS. I probably still have the insert, as I am a pack rat for "paper trails."

So, I just pulled this insert and it reads as follows:

1963 50C
GEM PROOF
Mint State 65
COIN# 6704.65
81129 30003017

It was actually a proof and graded 65. It was a simple experiment, and I subsequently gave it away.

Oh, and the reverse of the blue card insert reads:

"Grade certified by
DAVID HALL's (in a blue banner)
NUMISMATIC INVESTMENT GROUP

kieferscoins

Does it look just like the one in the picture?

Cameron Kiefer

Gilbert

Yes, it does, with DAVID HALL embossed on th seal and all. I don't have the front half of the flip, but I don't recall that it was anything other than the coin sealed in it.

oreville

ttt

LanLord

It's a little sad to read this, one prominent person no longer with us, at least another no longer welcome at the dinner table.

But interesting information none the less.

keets

I have one of these, it's also an MS65 1938-D Buffalo. I would imagine there were many hundreds of that date/mm done. I hang onto it for historical as well as sentimental reasons, the same way I hang onto memories of time spent talking with Cammy, dinner and a signed copy from Mike and watching Jeremy grow up at the forum.

asheland

Cool thread.

ricko

Great old thread.... good to resurrect these from time to time.... Memories... Cheers, RickO

originalisbest

Quite a resurrection, oreville. Sad about Cameron. And always enjoyable to see a HRH post (dang shame but I guess it makes sense, he likely doesn't have a lot of time to be futzing around on the messageboards.)

TwoSides2aCoin

Always late to the party,… but it's always a party.

johnny9434

neat

Mark

This thread is simultaneously both fun and sad...

gonzer

I almost fell out of my chair when I saw Cameron's name without looking at the date.

bob48

I do have two of these holders/flips2.5 x 2.5 and maybe they are a earlier version of the holder, just because the coin number isn't the same as PCGS.
1938-D Buffalo Nickel :GEM UNC. Mint State 65" Coin # 746.00 60294 s/n 1055575
1962 Franklin Half "GEM PROOF Mint State 65"Coin # 2339.00 56409 s/n 1051920

Both coins are in a clear plastic coin capsule, and both are sealed and embossed with David Hall name.
Just like the OP's picture of the coin.
Look close at the picture and you can see the coin capsule.
Coin express still sells these and I like them.

ms70

<< <i>This thread is simultaneously both fun and sad... >>



Yes.

Walkerfan

<< <i>

<< <i>This thread is simultaneously both fun and sad... >>



Yes. >>



Very much so.

lordmarcovan

Ah, a blast from the past.

Not long ago, I traded places with Cameron on the "Top Ten" user listing by post count when I moved into #7 and he became #8.

jtlee321

Revive an old thread. I just nabbed one of these on eBay. I think the history of them is as interesting as the different Photo Certs. I had read about these a couple of months ago and came across one. I just had to have it.

PerryHall

Is that flip made from PVC? The coin appears to be in a capsule which helps protect it but I'd be concerned because PVC out gases fumes and that capsule is not air tight.

illini420

I saw those on eBay and they just didn't look right to me. I guess I hadn't ever owned any of these flips with that typeface before and with what appears to be two paper inserts in each flip... and I've owned dozens of these over the years.

Doesn't mean too much though as I know there were different types of these. I'm sure some others who collect these will maybe be able to confirm they have seen similar flips.

illini420

For comparison, here's one I bought at a recent show. This is the typeface style I've seen most often on these David Hall flips and you'll also see that there is a single paper insert that is printed with the coin info on one side and his logo on the other side.

Cameonut

Here is an early version - circa 1982. Even though it has a PVC flip, the capsule appears to have preserved the coin just fine.

Zoins

@kieferscoins said:
This seems to have come from one of David Hall's investment groups? It is "certified" (heat sealed David Hall) on top and the most interesting part of it is, he has the PCGS number arranged like they are on the PCGS slab. coin#.grade/cert#. Did that mean these numbers were thought up way before PCGS was even born and he just switched it over to the new company?

Have you seen this type before? Does it qualify as a slab?

Cameron Kiefer

It's cool that the coin numbers for HRH and PCGS are the same. The below is the matching coin number, 3984, from PCGS CoinFacts:

OPA

@elmiracoin said:
I don't understand why the first two posters were banned - nothing offensive here. Is dumping on David sacred?

One passed away several years ago, not sure as to the exact reason(s) for the other one.

ricko

@elmiracoin..... The issues that caused them to be banned had nothing to do with this thread. Cheers, RickO

drwstr123

Here are a couple sequentially numbered...

jtlee321

@illini420 said:
I saw those on eBay and they just didn't look right to me. I guess I hadn't ever owned any of these flips with that typeface before and with what appears to be two paper inserts in each flip... and I've owned dozens of these over the years.

Doesn't mean too much though as I know there were different types of these. I'm sure some others who collect these will maybe be able to confirm they have seen similar flips.

Thank you for your post. It got me to examine my example closer. My example has the exact same paper insert in it, with one difference. The insert has a white sticker applied to cover the coin information side of the blue insert. The original insert was printed for a 1916-S $20.00 St. Gaudens in MS-65. All the info is there, but it appears as if the original was printed with the information too low, so there was no room for the serial number. Instead of throwing the insert out, I imagine they simply reused it by applying a white sticker over it for a new coin.

jtlee321

@PerryHall said:
Is that flip made from PVC? The coin appears to be in a capsule which helps protect it but I'd be concerned because PVC out gases fumes and that capsule is not air tight.

I would imagine that the capsule it air tight enough that in 30 years or so, the PVC has in no way affected the coin. David Hall above said that these were produced between 1982 and 1987. I have an old ANACS Photo cert that has a Mercury Dime in it that is also in a similar coin capsule housed in a PVC Flip that is attached to the inside of a faux leather holder. The certificate is from 1981 and the dime has no affects from the PVC.

asheland

Cool thread!

ChrisH821

@PerryHall said:
Is that flip made from PVC? The coin appears to be in a capsule which helps protect it but I'd be concerned because PVC out gases fumes and that capsule is not air tight.

Given that the coins have been in them for over 30 years with no issues I'd say there is no danger of PVC in them. I have a '36 buffalo in one, it's actually one of my very first coins I got when I was a kid.

BUFFNIXX

Just get a Coin World premier coin slab of any size, take out the insert and this will fit right inside. Then you will have a real slab!! Would then fit in nicely with your other pcgs slabbed coins.