thanks for the link. very well structured post to HRH and i think his reply was quite candid and from the hip. it's a bit late, but it would have been good for him to look at the coin while they had it. i guess we've surmised that they are willing to err on the side of AT and HRH has now confirmed that for us.
one thing about your coin that strikes me-----it isn't FS, it isn't high grade, it isn't a particularly tough date and it isn't knock-your-socks-off-vibrant-toning. for me, it's a reasonably clean coin with pleasantly attractive natural tone, one which would fit nicely in anyone's collection. given all that it ain't, i like what it is. good luck with NGC.
Really appreciate the way Exposer and TBT handled this topic, and it gave me a new perspective on the issue of A-toning by doctors. At a most recent major coin show my wife accompanied me, mostly out of curiousity. I said, "Come on hun., let's go over to this table and talk to this guy. He's really nice, and I can show you some nice AT coins." It was Nick's table. As usual, we chatted for a minute, he really is a nice guy. And as usual, I didn't buy anything, just gawked. I used to think that I was making enough of a statement just by not buying from him.
Rather than not buying and a nice chat, why didn't I say to him, "You know, I really don't like the fact that what you do jeoparidzes the credibility of our hobby/your profession...etc., etc." I should have. I think what we are seeing now is that a crowd of collectors, dealers, and grading services have recognized that this cancer has grown too large and we can't brush it off any longer. The cancer is spreading. Exposer is part of this crowd, and good for him.
Maybe guys like Nick, as nice a guy as he is, needs to realize that more and more of us aren't looking the other way any more. Maybe he needs to realize that some of us are as mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore. Maybe TBT can relay this sentiment during the next dinner conversation.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
I'm not on a first name basis with the Nick the Doctor and if I ate supper with him I wouldn't tell any of you about it. For those of you without the PCGS book here is the Proof Buff on page C-21 that is allegedly "Nick's" work:
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Is this the thread about the 1000's/night ladies? If so what do these look like after 20-30 years?
Both the ladies and Nicks coins -
Russ - your nickel has what I think of as chemical splotches - looks like someone dropped some powder on it and one area in particular has a green circular area around a darker green.
Exposer, I've really got to hand it to you. First, you do a hatchet job on a dealer you don't know personally, then you retract/edit around 80% of your earlier comments about the same dealer. This is one of the most gutless moves I have ever witnessed on this forum.
TomT-1794
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Or maybe I decided that a friendship was worth more than an impersonal forum post……….Right or wrong my comments were out of line almost as much as the author of this thread and I chose to edit them. It is as simple as that……..no plots to over throw coin-o-lot or such.
TBT---Sorry to hear you feel that way. I had thought you were a stand up for the industry kind of guy, but it appears you have shown everyone that your "friendship" with a coin doctor is more important than your ethics.
My comments about doctor Nick are fact. The truth is NOT out of line.
Exposer- I'd like to welcome you to the Forum. Your first few posts have definitely been a highlight for the day. I look forward to your continued participation. It seems your candor and knowledge will be greatly appreciated by this collector. Enjoy your time here!
<< <i>Or maybe I decided that a friendship was worth more than an impersonal forum post……….Right or wrong my comments were out of line almost as much as the author of this thread and I chose to edit them. It is as simple as that……..no plots to over throw coin-o-lot or such.
TBT >>
Bryan
I'm sorry that you felt you had to change the course of history as you did (although I understand, and generally don't chime into a thread until I'm good and ready). The only question I have is seeing as how you confirmed everything, if not more, of what exposer posted, how are his comments out of line?
Is it as Moose seemed to be saying, that one can't comment on the behavior of another unless they are known "personally." If this is true, then perhaps 90% of all news reportage done is bogus.
Is it the fact that it's "an anonymous tip," although these seem to be okay when used by law enforcement officers and independently confirmed, as you so generously obliged (before the excision, of course)?
Is it the fact that exposer didn't mention how the coin doctor is really a nice guy and a swell friend who doesn't kick his dog or beat his wife?
Or is it something else that perhaps I'm too naive to come up with?
This is just a "message board." We all know this. Stuff is posted, we glean from it what we will. For months now I've been reading about doctoring, puttying, tight submissions, doctor posses, etc. etc. etc. This is the first time I've read a name and the behavior that is engaged in by that person. And this is supposedly a guy who is so good his work is in the PCGS coin grading guide as an example of "great color." (And, of course, all the "out of line" information was corroborated by a "friend," for which we thank you.)
I'm just a little guy who has spent a couple bucks on coins. I don't get invited to "trade and grades" and i don't have the president of pcgs or ngc's private number on speed dial. I don't know the names and m.o.'s of the doctor's that all you dealers seem to know but won't share. Every little bit of info I can get is of help.
Anyone else out there with some "out of line" comments I might find interesting and educational?
z
p.s. from what I understand you deal almost exclusively in toned coins. I don't know that being a high profile friend of an admitted coin doctor is the best p.r. strategy.
As one forum member stated in a PM “I put my foot in my mouth” and stated things that “I” did not need to be involved in. I do welcome exposer to the board and hope that their information is a little less anonymous in the future.
Think of it this way. You have a friend that you know well but you do not approve of their business practices. It would be hard to be that person’s executioner.
<< <i>TBT---Sorry to hear you feel that way. I had thought you were a stand up for the industry kind of guy, but it appears you have shown everyone that your "friendship" with a coin doctor is more important than your ethics.
My comments about doctor Nick are fact. The truth is NOT out of line. >>
Clarification: Your delivery was out of line (IMO). Hiding behind an ID is not ethical or honorable either(IMO). If you have decided to be a whistle blower then do it right and come on out with it in the open so your prey can respond accordingly.
Again, I state that you do not have the right to presume or assume anything about my ethics, as you do not know me. Retracting comments does not mean I side with anyone on this issue, it means I have the decency to excuse myself from a public conversation for personal reasons. Feel free to email me if you would like to further discuss this….pros or cons.
TBT---You appear to be getting more confused as this thread goes on. My delivery is out of line only in your own mind, or that of whom ever is doing your thinking for you. The only prey involved in all of this are the collectors and anyone else who spends money with Nick Ciancio.
As for your ethics, or lack of them, I am not making any presumptions or assumptions. Your statements in this thread, (those that are still here and those that you chose to delete), pretty much told everyone where you stand. I have every right to my opinion, (you seem to want to call it presume and assume), and will continue to state it when I feel the need.
As for emailing you, I think not. Any communications can be right here on this board. No need to take any of this private. It has all been too private for too long.
There is no middle of the road folks. Eventually everyone will need to decide if they are a part of the problem or part of the solution. Which are you????
Until you identify yourself I will not be able to take you post seriously. It is very easy to champion a cause with the protection of anonymity. Like a sniper you can take shots with little fear of retribution.
Well here I am, out in the open……..take as many shots from your cowardly cover as you want.
Re-statement: Just so there is no confusion.
I do not condone or participate in any form of doctoring coins in this industry. In this thread I have chosen to remove my statements because this is not the correct media for them. This is my opinion only.
TBT---"Until you identify yourself I will not be able to take you post seriously. "
It is of no concern of mine what YOU take seriously. I haven't seen a single rebuttal to my original post. Why??? Because it happens to be the truth.
Next time you do a show, if you do shows, be sure to put a sign up right next to your raw toned coins that reads something like this: "My friend, Nick Ciancio, AT's and doctors coins very well, but none of my coins are AT or doctored."
Then come back and tell everyone how much your friend Nick helped your business at that show.
I am not disputing your information just the anonymity of your post.
Please read my last few post real slow……I do not condone coin doctoring or artificial toning of coins. Very cowardly of you to again try to confuse a persons personal friendship with a persons professional dealings. Just b/c I do not care for a persons business practices does not mean I have to forgo their friendship.
Guilt by associations………not likely……people are not sheep to be lead to the slaughter as most make their own minds up. So be it!
Again:
I am Bryan Orsborn, Texas Bullion Traders, borsborn@txucom.net. And you are?
your truth may gain credibility if you aren't anonymous. past that, i think members may feel you have an agenda of some sort and mull over the thought that you might have arrived in the "Nick" of time for some reason. we had an incident here a few short months ago which exploded in the perpetrators face which also concerned association with a coin doctor. tell us who you are for the sake of common sense.
hey brian, you didn't help by editing. those who came to the thread without having seen your replies will probably hold you suspect to all that exposer says.
that's where the attitude of stman gains validity and popularity. everyone's worried about this AT issue but those in the know sherk their moral responsibility, that is if they are really in the know.
As Mark Feld, Coinguy1, said, "While I, too, prefer that people not hide their identities, good reasons for doing so have been noted in a number of threads on this forum. I think the more important issue is whether "exposer" is providing accurate information or not and, as of yet, I haven't seen anyone (including you) dispute his information."
Still no one has disputed the information. I couldn't care less if Exposer reveals his identity. If his knowledge and information is helpful to this Forum, then I welcome it.
If he doesn't choose to take the written abuse by PM & e-mail that some Members want to provide in a more "private" manner, then that is perfectly fine by me. If he wants this to be in an open format, I think that is good.
<< <i>that's where the attitude of stman gains validity and popularity. everyone's worried about this AT issue but those in the know sherk their moral responsibility, >>
And I hear that guy "stman" has a heck of an attititude, and also very grumpy.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Keets---I don’t know what happened here a few months ago, but I can understand that not knowing who I am may be a problem to some. The reason I will continue to remain anonymous is simply self-preservation. If other doctors and AT scumbags know who I am, I wouldn’t be privy to too much information, would I? If you and others on this board knew who I am it would make no difference, because none of you would know me any way. DCAMFranklin appears to know exactly why I am taking this route.
As for agenda, I do have one……to help rid this industry of all the scumbags I can. Let’s face it. I really didn’t unveil anything about Dr. Nick that many dealers and collectors didn’t already know. It is pretty much common knowledge if you go to very many shows. Hence no rebuttals. The thing I don’t understand is why no one seems to want to do anything about it other than talk. Action speaks louder than words folks. Why not ban these crooks from shows and from submitting coins to the major services??? That would at least be a start. You have to start somewhere!!!!!
Exposer, just how do you propose that we ban the coin doctors from shows and from submitting coins? Seems to me that the people who do the banning will open themselves up to all sorts of legal troubles. It is an unfortunate thing that in this time in our country you pretty much can't even take a crap without somehow getting sued for something! TomT.
TomT-1794
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
It is the show promoters and grading services that need to step up to the plate on these things. There is always a way to get rid of undesirables, but they have to want to do it. And yes there will always be the scumbag who will try to sue someone for telling it like it is.
I'll provide solid information for you as best as I can, but you guys will have to take it from there. Knowledge is power.......you just have to know what to do with it. Let me see what you can do with what I've already given you.
Welcome to the forums exposer, and thanks for posting that info. I wish more high profile dealers here would have the fortitude to step up and point out people by name so that they can be avoided like the plague.
I would also mention that I have a very serious problem with anyone who says that they are "friendly" with a known coin doctor, yet have no issues with what they do. Altering coins and attempting to get them certified, or passing them off as raw coins to unknowing collectors is criminal IMO, and at the VERY LEAST extremely unethical and dishonest,,,,,,,,yet dealers who are aware of these individuals say "well, I know what he does, but I don't deal in his stuff and they're a really swell guy otherwise"!
IMO, if you are a dealer who is fully aware of other dealers who doctor up coins in any way, and attempts to get them certified or passes them off on the unsuspecting, and YOU do not do everything in your power to 'turn them in' or make others aware of them,,,,,,,,then YOU are just as guilty as they are in my book.
<< <i>As one forum member stated in a PM “I put my foot in my mouth >>
BTW, I will own up to this statement, That be me that he is talking about. I received a PM from this person first, and this was ONE of my statements back.
I am not hiding behind anything, you know who I am, where I live and my phone number. Maybe I should be scared.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
caitlin---I can't positively tell for sure from the photo, but I would venture a guess, (and I stress it is a pure guess), that it is not. Reason being; he wouldn't normally do that date unless the coin was at least a lock 65. I have, however, seen his work with that exact look.
BTW, Nick Ciancio is not the only doctor than has this process down pat. Unfortunately I don't have enough proof on the others YET.
The story I got, and this was from a very well-respected collector who's usually in-the-know on such things, says that coin in the PCGS grading guide that you quizzed Hall about is definitely one of Ciancio's jobs.
Next time I see him, I'll ask for more details about who at PCGS knows.
<< <i>This question was asked in the Q&A section, to which David replied...."There is a person out of Chicago who does incredible toned jobs on nickels and the color looks something like this. But he does mostly expensive Buffalo nickels. "
I wonder why he doesn't just come out and say Nick Ciancio is the great Buffalo nickel doctor he is talking about? Mr Ciancio even brags at major shows about the thousands of coins he has slid past PCGS graders over the years. BTW he is in Niles, IL., not Chicago. >>
Just for a frame of reference, Niles is on the northwest perimeter of Chicago. Niles has such a random, circuitous border that in some places it is difficult to determine if you are in Niles, Chicago or Park Ridge. I live in Niles and frequent the great Niles Coin Shop. I have never run into this person.
<< <i>Exposer, I've really got to hand it to you. First, you do a hatchet job on a dealer you don't know personally, then you retract/edit around 80% of your earlier comments about the same dealer. This is one of the most gutless moves I have ever witnessed on this forum. >>
oop's -didn't read the whole thread , but I think Mr. Ex has more guts then all the rest of us put together
Not often you can take 100 on a seven year old thread. Wowser on the read. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
thanks for the link. very well structured post to HRH and i think his reply was quite candid and from the hip. it's a bit late, but it would have been good for him to look at the coin while they had it. i guess we've surmised that they are willing to err on the side of AT and HRH has now confirmed that for us.
one thing about your coin that strikes me-----it isn't FS, it isn't high grade, it isn't a particularly tough date and it isn't knock-your-socks-off-vibrant-toning. for me, it's a reasonably clean coin with pleasantly attractive natural tone, one which would fit nicely in anyone's collection. given all that it ain't, i like what it is. good luck with NGC.
al h.
open your PM function.
al h.
Rather than not buying and a nice chat, why didn't I say to him, "You know, I really don't like the fact that what you do jeoparidzes the credibility of our hobby/your profession...etc., etc." I should have. I think what we are seeing now is that a crowd of collectors, dealers, and grading services have recognized that this cancer has grown too large and we can't brush it off any longer. The cancer is spreading. Exposer is part of this crowd, and good for him.
Maybe guys like Nick, as nice a guy as he is, needs to realize that more and more of us aren't looking the other way any more. Maybe he needs to realize that some of us are as mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore. Maybe TBT can relay this sentiment during the next dinner conversation.
That'll depend on whether Nick had agreed to buy dinner that night.
GSAGUY
For those of you without the PCGS book here is the Proof Buff on page C-21 that is allegedly "Nick's" work:
Both the ladies and Nicks coins -
Russ - your nickel has what I think of as chemical splotches - looks like someone dropped some powder on it and one area in particular has a green circular area around a darker green.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
It appears to me that it was TBT, not exposer, who edited his posts.
I always edit for spelling. This is something else. I shake my head in wonder.
Carl
TBT
Nick Cascio
<< <i>Don't get this guy mixed up with me. >>
I actually thought I bought a few dime from AT doctor
Sorry....
My comments about doctor Nick are fact. The truth is NOT out of line.
Do you have a nickname?
peacockcoins
<< <i>Or maybe I decided that a friendship was worth more than an impersonal forum post……….Right or wrong my comments were out of line almost as much as the author of this thread and I chose to edit them. It is as simple as that……..no plots to over throw coin-o-lot or such.
TBT >>
Bryan
I'm sorry that you felt you had to change the course of history as you did (although I understand, and generally don't chime into a thread until I'm good and ready). The only question I have is seeing as how you confirmed everything, if not more, of what exposer posted, how are his comments out of line?
Is it as Moose seemed to be saying, that one can't comment on the behavior of another unless they are known "personally." If this is true, then perhaps 90% of all news reportage done is bogus.
Is it the fact that it's "an anonymous tip," although these seem to be okay when used by law enforcement officers and independently confirmed, as you so generously obliged (before the excision, of course)?
Is it the fact that exposer didn't mention how the coin doctor is really a nice guy and a swell friend who doesn't kick his dog or beat his wife?
Or is it something else that perhaps I'm too naive to come up with?
This is just a "message board." We all know this. Stuff is posted, we glean from it what we will. For months now I've been reading about doctoring, puttying, tight submissions, doctor posses, etc. etc. etc. This is the first time I've read a name and the behavior that is engaged in by that person. And this is supposedly a guy who is so good his work is in the PCGS coin grading guide as an example of "great color." (And, of course, all the "out of line" information was corroborated by a "friend," for which we thank you.)
I'm just a little guy who has spent a couple bucks on coins. I don't get invited to "trade and grades" and i don't have the president of pcgs or ngc's private number on speed dial. I don't know the names and m.o.'s of the doctor's that all you dealers seem to know but won't share. Every little bit of info I can get is of help.
Anyone else out there with some "out of line" comments I might find interesting and educational?
z
p.s. from what I understand you deal almost exclusively in toned coins. I don't know that being a high profile friend of an admitted coin doctor is the best p.r. strategy.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Think of it this way. You have a friend that you know well but you do not approve of their business practices. It would be hard to be that person’s executioner.
Edited for idiot spelling.
<< <i>TBT---Sorry to hear you feel that way. I had thought you were a stand up for the industry kind of guy, but it appears you have shown everyone that your "friendship" with a coin doctor is more important than your ethics.
My comments about doctor Nick are fact. The truth is NOT out of line. >>
Clarification: Your delivery was out of line (IMO). Hiding behind an ID is not ethical or honorable either(IMO). If you have decided to be a whistle blower then do it right and come on out with it in the open so your prey can respond accordingly.
Again, I state that you do not have the right to presume or assume anything about my ethics, as you do not know me. Retracting comments does not mean I side with anyone on this issue, it means I have the decency to excuse myself from a public conversation for personal reasons. Feel free to email me if you would like to further discuss this….pros or cons.
TBT
As for your ethics, or lack of them, I am not making any presumptions or assumptions. Your statements in this thread, (those that are still here and those that you chose to delete), pretty much told everyone where you stand. I have every right to my opinion, (you seem to want to call it presume and assume), and will continue to state it when I feel the need.
As for emailing you, I think not. Any communications can be right here on this board. No need to take any of this private. It has all been too private for too long.
There is no middle of the road folks. Eventually everyone will need to decide if they are a part of the problem or part of the solution. Which are you????
Well here I am, out in the open……..take as many shots from your cowardly cover as you want.
Re-statement: Just so there is no confusion.
I do not condone or participate in any form of doctoring coins in this industry. In this thread I have chosen to remove my statements because this is not the correct media for them. This is my opinion only.
Bryan Orsborn
Texas Bullion Traders
borsborn@txucom.net
It is of no concern of mine what YOU take seriously. I haven't seen a single rebuttal to my original post. Why??? Because it happens to be the truth.
Next time you do a show, if you do shows, be sure to put a sign up right next to your raw toned coins that reads something like this:
"My friend, Nick Ciancio, AT's and doctors coins very well, but none of my coins are AT or doctored."
Then come back and tell everyone how much your friend Nick helped your business at that show.
Please read my last few post real slow……I do not condone coin doctoring or artificial toning of coins. Very cowardly of you to again try to confuse a persons personal friendship with a persons professional dealings. Just b/c I do not care for a persons business practices does not mean I have to forgo their friendship.
Guilt by associations………not likely……people are not sheep to be lead to the slaughter as most make their own minds up. So be it!
Again:
I am Bryan Orsborn, Texas Bullion Traders, borsborn@txucom.net. And you are?
your truth may gain credibility if you aren't anonymous. past that, i think members may feel you have an agenda of some sort and mull over the thought that you might have arrived in the "Nick" of time for some reason. we had an incident here a few short months ago which exploded in the perpetrators face which also concerned association with a coin doctor. tell us who you are for the sake of common sense.
hey brian, you didn't help by editing. those who came to the thread without having seen your replies will probably hold you suspect to all that exposer says.
that's where the attitude of stman gains validity and popularity. everyone's worried about this AT issue but those in the know sherk their moral responsibility, that is if they are really in the know.
al h.
Still no one has disputed the information. I couldn't care less if Exposer reveals his identity. If his knowledge and information is helpful to this Forum, then I welcome it.
If he doesn't choose to take the written abuse by PM & e-mail that some Members want to provide in a more "private" manner, then that is perfectly fine by me. If he wants this to be in an open format, I think that is good.
<< <i>that's where the attitude of stman gains validity and popularity. everyone's worried about this AT issue but those in the know sherk their moral responsibility, >>
And I hear that guy "stman" has a heck of an attititude, and also very grumpy.
how could you see it any other way!!
al h.
<< <i>And I hear that guy "stman" has a heck of an attititude, and also very grumpy. >>
Keets,
I understand but felt my post would better be kept out of a public forum.
TBT
As for agenda, I do have one……to help rid this industry of all the scumbags I can. Let’s face it. I really didn’t unveil anything about Dr. Nick that many dealers and collectors didn’t already know. It is pretty much common knowledge if you go to very many shows. Hence no rebuttals. The thing I don’t understand is why no one seems to want to do anything about it other than talk. Action speaks louder than words folks.
Why not ban these crooks from shows and from submitting coins to the major services??? That would at least be a start. You have to start somewhere!!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>And I hear that guy "stman" has a heck of an attititude, and also very grumpy. >>
Glad to see you quoted my statement and got all smiley faced about it. Geez, I wonder why?
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
I'll provide solid information for you as best as I can, but you guys will have to take it from there. Knowledge is power.......you just have to know what to do with it. Let me see what you can do with what I've already given you.
Does this coin look like a Nick Coin?
I would also mention that I have a very serious problem with anyone who says that they are "friendly" with a known coin doctor, yet have no issues with what they do. Altering coins and attempting to get them certified, or passing them off as raw coins to unknowing collectors is criminal IMO, and at the VERY LEAST extremely unethical and dishonest,,,,,,,,yet dealers who are aware of these individuals say "well, I know what he does, but I don't deal in his stuff and they're a really swell guy otherwise"!
IMO, if you are a dealer who is fully aware of other dealers who doctor up coins in any way, and attempts to get them certified or passes them off on the unsuspecting, and YOU do not do everything in your power to 'turn them in' or make others aware of them,,,,,,,,then YOU are just as guilty as they are in my book.
dragon
<< <i>As one forum member stated in a PM “I put my foot in my mouth >>
BTW, I will own up to this statement, That be me that he is talking about. I received a PM from this person first, and this was ONE of my statements back.
I am not hiding behind anything, you know who I am, where I live and my phone number.
Maybe I should be scared.
BTW, Nick Ciancio is not the only doctor than has this process down pat. Unfortunately I don't have enough proof on the others YET.
Cool, that's three of mine in a row that he's answered. I'm on a roll!
Russ, NCNE
What color would you like?
I'll cook one up for you quick.
Got quoins?
The story I got, and this was from a very well-respected collector who's usually in-the-know on such things, says that coin in the PCGS grading guide that you quizzed Hall about is definitely one of Ciancio's jobs.
Next time I see him, I'll ask for more details about who at PCGS knows.
GSAGUY
<< <i>This question was asked in the Q&A section, to which David replied...."There is a person out of Chicago who does incredible toned jobs on nickels and the color looks something like this. But he does mostly expensive Buffalo nickels. "
I wonder why he doesn't just come out and say Nick Ciancio is the great Buffalo nickel doctor he is talking about? Mr Ciancio even brags at major shows about the thousands of coins he has slid past PCGS graders over the years.
BTW he is in Niles, IL., not Chicago. >>
Just for a frame of reference, Niles is on the northwest perimeter of Chicago. Niles has such a random, circuitous border that in some places it is difficult to determine if you are in Niles, Chicago or Park Ridge. I live in Niles and frequent the great Niles Coin Shop. I have never run into this person.
<< <i>What happen to exposer? >>
he's back , and posting some good stuff in a couple other posts .
I wasn't here in 2003 and missed this post ; but I can see why Mr. Ex was baffled as to why he outed Nick -NOTHING CAME OF IT !
and I now see why he must be a phantom and nobody should try to find out who he is ; he's a hero in my book
<< <i>Exposer, I've really got to hand it to you. First, you do a hatchet job on a dealer you don't know personally, then you retract/edit around 80% of your earlier comments about the same dealer. This is one of the most gutless moves I have ever witnessed on this forum. >>
oop's -didn't read the whole thread , but I think Mr. Ex has more guts then all the rest of us put together
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......