New Message Board Policy
homerunhall
Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭
Hello all...
When we started the PCGS message boards we wanted to provide a forum for collectors to meet, exchange ideas and information, and learn from each other.
We made the decision early on not to censor the boards with the exception of profanity, obvious rip-off attempts, and off-the-wall blatantly vicious behavior toward other members. Our own company, PCGS, has taken a lot of shots on these boards, and still we believed that it was all OK. We wanted it to be your boards...even though we were paying the costs. And since I've become re-involved with PCGS in the last six months, I actually appreciated the constructive criticism and tried to respond to the desires of our customers as pointed out by many of you on these boards. I also enjoyed getting to know some of you and the whole process of talking about coins and coin grading. And I always tried to answer every question the best I could.
But there is a bad side side to the no-censorship policy. There are a few...just a few...board members that just seem to be here to bag on everything and everybody. Their complaints and criticisms are usually mean-spirited and seldom constructive. And their comments often range from simply incorrect to pure BS. These members waste your time and ours.
It has gotten so bad that numerous PCGS dealers have asked us why we allow message board posts that unfairly critisize the product they sell and support. And numerous collectors have asked us why we allow message board posts to unfairly critisize the coins they love and the grading service they support.
Effective immediately, the PCGS message boards will be for the sole purpose of members meeting, exchanging ideas and information, and learning from each other. The message boards will censor any mean-spirited, one-sided criticism of PCGS and we will boot members that consistently bag on PCGS.
When we started the PCGS message boards we wanted to provide a forum for collectors to meet, exchange ideas and information, and learn from each other.
We made the decision early on not to censor the boards with the exception of profanity, obvious rip-off attempts, and off-the-wall blatantly vicious behavior toward other members. Our own company, PCGS, has taken a lot of shots on these boards, and still we believed that it was all OK. We wanted it to be your boards...even though we were paying the costs. And since I've become re-involved with PCGS in the last six months, I actually appreciated the constructive criticism and tried to respond to the desires of our customers as pointed out by many of you on these boards. I also enjoyed getting to know some of you and the whole process of talking about coins and coin grading. And I always tried to answer every question the best I could.
But there is a bad side side to the no-censorship policy. There are a few...just a few...board members that just seem to be here to bag on everything and everybody. Their complaints and criticisms are usually mean-spirited and seldom constructive. And their comments often range from simply incorrect to pure BS. These members waste your time and ours.
It has gotten so bad that numerous PCGS dealers have asked us why we allow message board posts that unfairly critisize the product they sell and support. And numerous collectors have asked us why we allow message board posts to unfairly critisize the coins they love and the grading service they support.
Effective immediately, the PCGS message boards will be for the sole purpose of members meeting, exchanging ideas and information, and learning from each other. The message boards will censor any mean-spirited, one-sided criticism of PCGS and we will boot members that consistently bag on PCGS.
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Comments
<< <i>Their complaints and criticisms are usually mean-spirited and seldom constructive. And their comments often range from simply incorrect to pure BS. These members waste your time and ours. >>
I totally agree. This could be a good policy as long as it isn't taken to far like the Coinworld forum where nothing can be said about the company. I hope this is kept in mind when deleting posts or people.
Cameron Kiefer
Does this mean warranted complaints based upon the turn-around times?
Does this mean warranted complaints as to fingerprints or other various foreign materials located in slabs?
Does this mean options as to PCGS's grading consistentcy & policies?
What behaviors are you exactly looking to excluded?
Examples would be appreciated.
Michael
bring a strict review of comments. Freedom of speech can never be a license to abandon
common sense and civility. I am sorry to see this happen, but I will not miss the hostile, negative
and personal attacks on people. Even Free Speech must have some limits and some penalties.
Camelot
Are there going to be moderators like Carol planned before?
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>and we will boot members that consistently bag on PCGS. >>
HRH,
I'm a little concerned about that statement. There are many of us who have leveled warranted criticisms when PCGS has been less than acceptable in customer service. In point of fact, I could point out one right now that hasn't been responded to since November of last year. I haven't because of all the other stuff you guys are dealing with. But, when the time comes and I want an answer, am I getting booted?
I'd appreciate some expansion and clarification on your definition of bagging on PCGS.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Threads like This may only be making fun of the weekend flame wars, but I think it helps promote it. >>
Russ, NCNE
::: Ducking :::
Everyone on this board has already accepted the user agreement when the joined.
Cameron:
I'm hoping that we don't need to go as far as bringing on more moderators but it's always an option.
Carol
Your HumorSense 95 beta just blue screened my P60.
What should I do? I'm not laughing
I am a big, no huge, supporter of PCGS but totally against any form of censorship. Sure there are a few morons on the boards but they usually leave after a while or are just ignored.
Will this be like Napster? The recording industry shut them down and now they have dozens of Napster clone sites. I say allow the bashers to remain. At least that way you can monitor what they are saying and post corrections and rebuttals.
You can boot the bashers but they will publish their message elsewhere like the newgroups. What will you do then? Do you want honest unfiltered critical opinions or a bunch of posters who do nothing but suck up? I want to know about and read differing opinions. PCGS should too, how else will you know if you are doing a good job?
It has gotten so bad that numerous PCGS dealers have asked us why we allow message board posts that unfairly critisize the product they sell and support
Could some of these dealers not want their crackout practices exposed? Their sales practices exposed? Their disputes exposed?
Bad bad bad idea Mr. Hall. I hope you will reconsider or modify this bad policy.
Censorship = Sayonara time for me.
A REAL P60? Those are pretty cool chips. Big old fat things.
Russ, NCNE
I just want to say this in case they pull my plug.
<< <i>constructive criticism >>
you charge to much to slab State Quarters
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
so many other sites and so much time that I spend on the internet. On of the reason I stopped posting over
here was because I got tired of the flame wars that were going on for a while. I have a consern about this
new policy. It seems that it looks like censorship, There are many time that we (your customers) have had
complaints and question on this company that I felt that have not been answered. Such as the Death coin
mess and the whole mess with QDB. Are we now going to be afraid to ask things like this. Or question about
apparent conflict of intrests between PCGS and other CU owned companys. Because of this new rule the line
of communication has been blocked even further. CHRIS
<< <i>Do you want honest unfiltered critical opinions or a bunch of posters who do nothing but suck up? >>
DL,
There's a big difference between honest criticism and bashing just for bashing's sake. There's plenty of both around here, and I think PCGS is perfectly within their rights to filter out the useless crap that serves no real purpose. However, as I said, I am concerned about the demarcation between the two. Difficult task to do effectively.
Russ, NCNE
So then you will only be able to say nice things about PCGS? Hmmm.
W.C. Fields
<< <i>Threads like This may only be making fun of the weekend flame wars, but I think it helps promote it. >>
Cameron,
You're obviously entitled to your opinion - and I submit that it lightens things up, and reduces the incidence of truly stupid flame-wars.
In every forum there are those who want it only to be a stuffy, narrowly confined discussion to strictly the matters that they feel are important.
There are those who exist only to have a good time, and crack jokes.
There are those who exist only to torque people off, and watch their reactions
There are those who purposely post an inflammatory thread to see how much trouble they can cause
There are those who hang out, have a good time, throw in some humor, laugh at ourselves, and learn as well as imparting a little knowledge.
I'd think that the Flame-war thread, Mrs. Coinboard, and others serve to keep things from getting dull, boring and omnipresent - as well as providing a little (sometimes MUCH needed) comic relief.
It'll be a sad day when the only thing allowed here is strictly technical discussion about coins, only coins, and nothing else is tolerated. I suppose that's entirely fine for those who only want one thing - but I'd submit that while buttered toast is good - I don't want to eat it for every meal. It'd get pretty dull.
Most people have numerous interests, opinions, likes and dislikes. While a good number of the threads on this board are off-topic, they serve to get to know one another better, to share a laugh, to have some cameraderie. I don't think that's such a bad thing... but that's just my opinion.
Some people forget that this and most websites are property of the owners and they can do ANYTHING they want, including shutting the website down.
In the grand scheme of things after a little while no one will care about thew censoring thing and you will almost forget they do anything.
<< <i>Whoaaaa!
I am a big, no huge, supporter of PCGS but totally against any form of censorship. Sure there are a few morons on the boards but they usually leave after a while or are just ignored.
You can boot the bashers but they will publish their message elsewhere like the newgroups. What will you do then? Do you want honest unfiltered critical opinions or a bunch of posters who do nothing but suck up? I want to know about and read differing opinions. PCGS should too, how else will you know if you are doing a good job?
It has gotten so bad that numerous PCGS dealers have asked us why we allow message board posts that unfairly critisize the product they sell and support
Could some of these dealers not want their crackout practices exposed? Their sales practices exposed? Their disputes exposed?
Bad bad bad idea Mr. Hall. I hope you will reconsider or modify this bad policy.
>>
I agree completly. Unless they make this a 'members only' club in which you have to pay to join I don't see any justification in this at all.
That's all folks.
09/07/2006
<< <i>Goodbye,everyone!
I just want to say this in case they pull my plug.
Whew Vam44........your lightbulb is blue. You mean they have started already??
Camelot
Censorship is bad, all around.
Michael
Who will be the judge?
This is like people who want to censor books, television, movies, art, etc.
Sure there is lots I do not like or agree with BUT I feel if there is an audience for it then so be it. There are books, TV shows, movies and art I do not like but I do not read, view or patronize what I do not like.
If you don't like a post then don't read it. If you object to a television show, change the channel.
Someone else asked about NGC board censorship and I can say that is one of the reasons I do not post or read their boards. Here I can get real unfiltered information.
Some months ago a member called "moichido" or somelike like that , claimed to be a dealer who was going to expose certain dealer practices. While he/she shed no real new light on practices it was interesting reading and it was a long thread. The next day "moichido" was gone and so were his/her messages. Strange!!
Mr. Hall, you may be able to squelch the dissenting voices but the sentiment will still be there. I would think you would want to listen to all who are critical of PCGS. When people stop criticizing they stop caring. Do you think one of your underlings will tell you when you are wrong? Not if they care about their next review and raise!
I must reiterate I am a long time huge supporter of PCGS [look at my past PCGS posts] but this new policy is not even in the ballpark.
Homerunhall has just struck out with bases loaded.
<< <i> Some people forget that this and most websites are property of the owners and they can do ANYTHING they want, including shutting the website down.
<< <i>
This is absolutely true. I have no problem with PCGS and I have no problem with them doing as they wish with their own property.
However, it is this kind of decision-making that reminds us that like all other companies...PCGS is just another company whose current and future leaders can make decisions that have a negative impact on its shareholders, employees and customers.
So what's my point?
To put it simply, "How much are you willing to pay for a classic or modern coin in a Hallmark slab today?" That's the point: "Buy the coin and not the slab. Today's great company is tomorrow's dog...companies come and go....but the coin will always be there for you.
you don't want this place turning into a pack of PCGS shills. it'll turn into a ghosttown.
where's greg? i'm sure he'll love this new change.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
A company does not pay for the costs of maintaining a web site ,so that the competition can blow their
own horn and in fact advertise their wares.
That letter was a direct challange to the management of PCGS. The management has now responded
to that challange. Now that we have been spanked and put to bed with no supper, let us see how
things work out, before we start jumping out of windows.
Camelot
I see already that one of the people posting against this numerous times already and asking for clarification is the same person(s) that leads the PCGS bash bandwagon.
Anyone notice the stock price (CLCT) is up over 20% in a week?
Nobody is censoring your right to free speach, just your privilege to do it here.
lemme know either way.
K S
I'll bet that the rational posters have nothing to fear, legitimate complaints expressed intelligently, all other civil communication will go on as before.
It will be the relentless repetitive and ill-mannered bashers that will get the boot, and rightly so.
The same type of basher has absolutely ruined my favorite yahoo stock chat boards, they are completely useless now, because of a few idiots who only scream, over and over,
"THIS STOCK IS A POS AND THE COMPANY IS FINISHED" and the like, and completely drown out any rational discussion.
I say, good move, the only ones in danger of censoring and banning are probably those who deserve it.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You're safe. You bash all the grading companies equally.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Smart business decision, think about it. If you were a competitor you could make up screen names and just bash away hoping to gain some market share. Suprised it wasn't done earlier.
I see already that one of the people posting against this numerous times already and asking for clarification is the same person(s) that leads the PCGS bash bandwagon.
Anyone notice the stock price (CLCT) is up over 20% in a week? >>
That is because he noticed the ice is the thinnest on his part of the pond.
I also agree that PCGS has the absolute right to control the boards, and we have none.
As all things, we should give it a chance, and see what is stricken from the boards, and what is not. I enjoy many of the witty remarks on the board, even when not coin related. I also think that PCGS doesn't want to sterilize the boards, but some matters are totally inappropriate.
If the boards become sterile, there will be a mass walk out, which would not be good for PCGS. They get more and better feedback from PCGS believers than they could anywhere else.
the boot. There is such a thing as constructive criticism and objectively being
against something. But constantly ragging on the hosts, their products and
their livelyhoods is detrimental to this board and our hosts. There is no one,
probably, who has to get booted except by his own decision. This policy may
actually make the interchange of facts, logic and views more effective rather
than serve as real censorship.
I personally am tired of hearing people constantly slamming PCGS. This is their ball and their court and they let us in to play for free.