Anaconda is tightening his coils around joconnor (but Prowler came to the rescue...)

ANACONDA · February 20, 2003 3:16PM

Oh, also, i looked at the toned Morgans in the Heritage sale. I saw one toned Morgan I am going to chase. There are quite a few cool ones but only one i "can't live without."

I got this today.....

adrian

TWQG · February 20, 2003 3:18PM

Oh, Oh, OH

real nice

northcoin · February 20, 2003 3:24PM

Can you link us to the toned Morgan? Promise us though that this isn't just a ploy to get us to bid on a monster that you consigned to Heritage. lol

RKKay · February 20, 2003 3:26PM

Nice coin, Adrian.

ANACONDA · February 20, 2003 3:32PM

I actually am going to chase the morgan and would be violating my fiduciary duty to my children and wife if i encouraged competition.

I can tell you, though, that if you are a connoisseur of toned morgans and you know which type of toning is some of the rarest, then you can probably figure out which coin I'm going after.

That's all I'll say. Who knows, i may actually forget to bid on it. It has happened before.

Heres' one of my assistants holding a set of educational notes in 67 (sorry about the focus):

adrian

MastaHanky · February 20, 2003 3:34PM

uNF uNF uNF uNF

K6AZ · February 20, 2003 4:57PM

Adrian, can you explain what the "Ashland City" pedigree is?

K6AZ · February 20, 2003 4:59PM

By the way, that is a cute assistant you have there. But don't let Sally know I said that.

K6AZ · February 20, 2003 4:59PM

The heck with the coins, show us more of the assistant!

TommyB · February 20, 2003 5:14PM

Was she holding something? I didn't notice.

relayer · February 20, 2003 5:19PM

If she was my assistant, I'd always be needing help

darktone · February 20, 2003 8:21PM

That's a very nice quarter! too bad someone dipped it white but it still looks great. mike

dorkkarl · February 20, 2003 8:53PM

anaconda, i personally do not like the looks of that quarter. but if you do, GREAT!

K S

ccrdragon · February 20, 2003 9:01PM

Hey Adrian - What's the opening bid on the assistant?!?!?!?!

MastaHanky · February 20, 2003 9:02PM

WHOA

I think I'm in love.

Need an in-house computer geek?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 20, 2003 9:34PM

Adrian

IMO THIS 1815 quarter is a contemporary example of AT.The surface of the coin has been stripped.The original surface of the coin known to me as the "skin" has been removed.The surface has a glossy look which is evidence that the dip has hidden surface blemishes,light hairlines and any original patina that was left on the coin.Anyone that believes this coin is an ms 65 is extremely delusional.BTW Your coins with monster toning are wonderful and I always enjoy your jpeg's.Why would you want to get involved with unnatural AT coins such as this 1815 quarter?

Stewart

jbsteven · February 20, 2003 9:52PM

I have a feeling I know the Morgan you are going to chase. I will be there bidding also so hopefully we are thinking of 2 different ones. There is a Morgan that has this great yellow color to it...........hmmm hopefully that is not the one you are thinking of.

pm me the one you are going to chase?

jeffnpcb · February 20, 2003 10:23PM

That is Pretty, Adrian and so is the coin!!
Looking at the coin, I have several half dimes and Seated Dollars out of the 1840's. They look similar to your coin in tone and clarity. I sent them to PCGS in 2001 and they all came backed cleaned or whizzed.

I then sent them to NGC, and what is trully weird, they all came back as being cleaned, but only on the obverse!

Any suggestions on what to do next with them?

Baley · February 20, 2003 10:39PM

omg, so pretty! and the coin and notes are nice too!

seriously, that 1815 is beautiful, that coin and your 1806 would look wonderful side by side...

or how about a shot of one in each hand of that hottie assistant?

ANACONDA · February 20, 2003 10:58PM

The 1806 quarter in NGC MS66 gets shipped today, sold on eBay. It might get returned (as all coins can be returned that i sell) but it did
get "sold" and has been paid for.

As for my assistant, she is Stephanie. She's worked for me for two years and is a legal assistant. She's smart and very productive in
addition to being beautiful and having a great personality. Here sister also works for me.

Stehpanie's developing an interest in coins and she's helped me with a coin show or two. GSAguy and a few other guys have met her.

adrian

ah · February 20, 2003 11:08PM

Yummy!! a real beauty.

Baley · February 20, 2003 11:08PM

aaah, the 1806 in NGC ms66, I will miss looking at that coin, it kept coming up in my searches for DB quarters, loved the coin, the writeup, the whole thing. well, maybe not the price

jbsteven · February 20, 2003 11:11PM

<< <i>Stehpanie's developing an interest in coins and she's helped me with a coin show or two. GSAguy and a few other guys have met her. >>

I see you are broadening your sales tactics at shows!

ANACONDA · February 20, 2003 11:16PM

As for the Ashland pedigree...i have no earthly idea what or who that is.

And, Stewart, the coin has not been cleaned. It's most likely been conserved. PCGS and NGC don't holder harshly cleaned coins.

I prefer my coins with nice light peripheral toning or monster toning, but white coins are also widely liked by even experienced
numismatists like yourself. But i do think as i have said many times, most experienced numismatists do prefer toned original coins to
white coins and coins that have been conserved.

Truth be told, most coins that are as old as that one have been cleaned or conserved at one time or another and have retoned.

But these are just coins we're talking about and coins are art, and in matters of art and taste there can be no disagreement. That's why i never bother the modern coin lovers.

adrian

ANACONDA · February 20, 2003 11:41PM

Me.....have sales tactics!

Here's a few more pics of the 1806 (and a few other coins that i no longer own...) that i took last night while taking pics of upcoming offerings:

MadMonk · February 21, 2003 12:51AM

Wow

Lakesammman · February 21, 2003 12:58AM

Nice "apple cheeks" variety.....

jeffnpcb · February 21, 2003 1:21AM

WOW, WOULD PLEASE STOP IT!!!
NO MORE PICTURES PLEASE, I'M TRYING TO SETTLE DOWN AFTER THIS PAST PREVIEW!!

Unknown · February 21, 2003 1:38AM

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keithdagen · February 21, 2003 2:03AM

Stephanie's developing an interest in coins and she's helped me with a coin show or two. GSAguy and a few other guys have met her.

Wow, I've got to figure out which shows she's coming to.

Baley · February 21, 2003 2:07AM

i can't believe those who harsh on that 1815 quarter, as if they wouldn't love to own it.

also, check out that 1810 half eagle! it's an NGC 62 if I recall. gorgeous!

Baley · February 21, 2003 2:12AM

joconnor writes "You are kidding, right? This is exactly the coin that I referred to in a prior post. If this coin were a Morgan Dollar, it wouldn't pass in an Uncirculated roll. It has been "conserved", in current terminology, and the luster is completely burnt. If this were a Morgan Dollar, NGC would return it in a body bag."

but it's not a morgan dollar, is it? why would you keep comparing it to a morgan dollar?

Unknown · February 21, 2003 2:33AM

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dorkkarl · February 21, 2003 2:44AM

baley, if it were my coin, i'd be happy. but i'd immediately crack it out, catalog it is ms-63, & leave it in an album to gently retone.

i love the coin, i do not like it's look.

& i wouldn't touch the babe sight-unseen either. sight-seen only!!!

K S

Baley · February 21, 2003 2:44AM

well la tee dah.

anyway, I'm glad you're more qualified, and I would sincerely like your opinion and hope to learn from it:

in your opinion what is the appropriate grade of the 1815 quarter in question?

MS 64? 62? Net Good-6 because of the bath? what?

thanks in advance, and I do mean it.

Baley · February 21, 2003 2:47AM

posted previous before seeing dorkkarl's reply and I agree with him, the coin needs to be cracked and put in an album for about 50 years. I also can't afford it in any mint state grade, so it's value is moot to me, but I am curious as to if the critics are saying it isn't worth owning, or just not at a 65 price?

Unknown · February 21, 2003 2:57AM

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andy007 · February 21, 2003 3:08AM

Adrian,

I saw the lower graded series of Educational notes (65,66,66 if I recall) at my local dealer's recently, out on consignment. It was an incredible set to look at, and it was displayed exactly as yours is, without the beautiful assistant of course.

Baley · February 21, 2003 3:14AM

63?

so in your opinion, Joe (and I did go to your site, and yes you have some gorgeous coins!)
this is a $3,000 coin, and not an $18,000 coin? wow that's quite a spread!

if you have, know of, or can obtain any coins like this (pre 1834 MS63's in 65 holders) that you'd like to offer me for 63 money, please PM me the photos, and I will make you a very serious offer

again, my sincere thanks in advance.

dorkkarl · February 21, 2003 3:56AM

the grade for me would be, yes, ms-63.

that's to put it in proper perspective in comparison to other coins.

the prices you quote sound like something out of a priceguide. the actual value should be determined by the open market!

K S

dorkkarl · February 21, 2003 3:57AM

btw, mr. o'connor, your name sounds familiar. illinois resident?

K S

Baley · February 21, 2003 4:37AM

an open market?? you mean like in an eBay Auction?

I would LOOOOOVE that coin for close to 3k, but think the reserve is probably closer to 18k.

Unknown · February 21, 2003 5:02AM

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mdwoods · February 21, 2003 5:06AM

But these are just coins we're talking about and coins are art, and in matters of art and taste there can be no disagreement. That's why i never bother the modern coin lovers.

Something that some of us Modern coin lovers notice and appreciate.

K6AZ · February 21, 2003 5:23AM

Well, I see that even Adrian can not post a coin here without someone feeling obliged to tear it down.

Tell me, how can you tell for certain that the coin is stripped? By the image? It is very difficult to even detect harsh cleaning in most images. And by your comments, I can gather that your position is that any white Bust coin has been "stripped". This is simply not true. There are many examples I could use, but perhaps the best known one is the bag of 1832 halves that were found in a bank vault in the 50s. The outer coins in the bag were toned, but the interior coins were as white as the day they were minted.

I see you have made many references to your expertise in Morgan Dollars. I have collected and dealt with Morgan Dollars since 1977, and I have never heard of you or your firm. I would be interested if you could run down your history with Morgans.

Baley · February 21, 2003 5:28AM

joconnor, you mistake me, I am not arguing, only trying to learn, for I am just an intermediate-level collector, one who someday aspires to someday own early US coins in Gem condition. Right now most of my early type coins are lightly circulated, the earliest are heavily circulated, and i only have one each of proof morgan, walker, merc, etc. Only one of my coins cost more than $5k, so a collector like myself might indeed be beneath your notice.

at any rate, I do thank you for your information about what the 1815 quarter in question last sold for, the market (bidders) did indeed value it somewhere between 64 and 65, closer to 65 but not quite there, and over TWICE what an average looking 64 would probably bring.

as for "thinking so highly of burnt white coins" again you mistake me, it took me forever to find my icon dollar, and treasure it's original surfaces, for which I paid a significant premium over the going rate the grade on the slab would otherwise indicate.

as I say, I am just a mid-level guy trying to learn about the upper eschelon before participating, and appreciate all patient replies to my apparently boorish inquiries

roadrunner · February 21, 2003 9:39AM

Joe O'Connor and Stewart have told it like it is. The look of that 1815 quarter is why so many NGC coins bring far less than one would think for the assigned grade. The dipped 1806 quarter in MS66 that Adrian also showed a scan of has far more life to its luster than the 1815. That 1815 coin is no longer a FULL LUSTER coin. Maybe 40-70% remains. And it was removed in consistent layers, not in isolated spots as worn coin would be. The difference in luster between those 2 coins is like night and day. With full blasty orig luster that 1815 would be worth $17-20K in MS65 grade. I think calling that an MS63 would be a bit harsh value-wise but in 1989 it would have been graded no better than 63 and possibly not graded at all.

For the few times I've been in the auction room with Joe O'Connor, I've been impressed with his grading skills and market saavy. He is a tough competitor on the higher end type coins.

roadrunner

Baley · February 21, 2003 9:58AM

well ok, I'm aware that luster is pretty important, and I haven't seen this quarter in person so I just can't comment on that aspect of it, but will say that the strike and freedom from marks look pretty good to me, as does the overall eye appeal, even if it is obviously dipped, it is still an early coin and I just don't think it should be held to the same standards as a Morgan dollar, any more than a Morgan should have to live up to the standards set for ASEs. I was really asking for more of an explanation from someone who referred to the coin as "this junk" [his words not mine], since anyone who can look down on a capped bust quarter in NGC 65 is obviously someone who deals with pretty high end material, and may have some insight which may be imparted.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 21, 2003 10:44AM

K6az - You can tell a burnt coin through experience and knowledge.FYI I have seen many mercury dimes that are burnt as well as Standing Liberty quarters.As yet I have not seen a burnt Franky

Baley - The value of this 1815 quarter is in the plastic.It is because it says ms 65 on the insert.

Hey guys - I can say I've known Joe O'Connor for more than 12 years.I use to buy Lincoln cents from him in the late 1980's when he worked for Larry Whitlow.He is a VERY honest guy and a straight shooter.He spent most of the 90's working for RARCOA with Ed MILAS.He is new to these boards and he should be listened to because you can learn from him.

Stewart

ANACONDA · February 21, 2003 10:49AM

Hey joconnor! Welcome to the PCGS message board. I guess you must have just found this place as i noticed that you have posted
only 12 times. What do you do for a living...authoring an update to "How to Win Friends and Influence People?" Cool.

By the way, I just love it when really, really smart guys like you who know more than most of us (and even the graders at NGC!) come
in here and find the "courage" to post their opinions as if they were facts. You obviously are a very talented person.

You can predict the future. ("If this were a Morgan Dollar, NGC would return it in a body bag.")

You can misstate facts with the greatest of ease. [("Morgan Dollars exist in every Mint State grade.") Incidentally, there's no Morgan
Dollar graded by either service as MS70.]

You can morph yourself into more than one person. (your website... "...we search out...we travel...our..." yet, i bet "Joseph O'Connor
Numismatic Rarities, LLC" is just little ole you....?)

Your handicaps don't slow you down. You pick a speck out of my eye while nearly hitting me in the head with the beam in your eye .
[You criticize me for pounding on my chest and proclaiming my expertise (which i didn't do) with nothing more than salesmanship but
you, an apparent newcomer to this board and someone me and at least one other person has never heard of, pounds your chest,
proclaiming your expertise yet offer nothing more than salesmanship to authenticate your expertise ("I've bought and sold most of
the high grade Large Size Bust Quarters that PCGS has certified, and a few of the better NGC coins that I thought were graded
properly. I think that gives my opinion a little more weight." . I checked out your website. I must have missed your credentials
because i couldn't find any.)]

Condescension is at your fingertips. ("I don't see any much intelligent life in this discussion...")

(By the way, I went to your web site. I was surprised to find just one NGC coin listed out of the 36 coins you have listed. I guess you
just must feel uncomfortable buying coins unless they're in PCGS holders. I myself have told people who are aren't smart enough
to learn how to grade coins that they should stick with PCGS coins. I'm pretty sure your attention span didn't allow you to read this far,
but in case I'm wrong, am i wrong in concluding that your website hasn't been updated since early last year? Busy too, eh? Your
probably neck deep in setting everybody straight, up there in Illinois.)

I especially like this coin in your inventory:

A really nice white coin...from 1878! I wonder how it has escaped toning in the past 125 years?

Finally, be cool dude, I've meant you no serious harm, and i'm not trying to make you into an enemy. Life is too short.

By the way, what's your best price on that Twenty Lib in PCGS proof 65? Please PM me, I don't want roadrunner to back door me.

adrian

K6AZ · February 21, 2003 11:05AM

Stewart- I can easily tell an overdipped coin when I hold it in my hand. My point was, you can't tell by an image.

Anaconda is tightening his coils around joconnor (but Prowler came to the rescue...)

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