This might be your Last Chance with NGC
braddick
Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've heard rumblings that NGC will be/is tightening up ever so slightly on their grading. Not a full point or two, mind you- but what may have been a 'gift 65' (64.9) will now be in the tighter holder (64).
If that is the case I think within six months or so you'll begin to see prices of NGC coins gaining ground and inching closer to PCGS coins (same grade/same make). In some series, that's happening already.
I've also heard that NGC is going to be making more of an effort to get the "bad" coins off the market as they become available to them.
-I like what I'm hearing, because coupled with the above, NGC will be consistent with their execution.
Fact or fiction? Rumor and speculation, or is what I'm hearing tapped into some kind of reality (I trust the two Dealers I heard this from- but also know they're not the endall of inside information!)?
If that is the case I think within six months or so you'll begin to see prices of NGC coins gaining ground and inching closer to PCGS coins (same grade/same make). In some series, that's happening already.
I've also heard that NGC is going to be making more of an effort to get the "bad" coins off the market as they become available to them.
-I like what I'm hearing, because coupled with the above, NGC will be consistent with their execution.
Fact or fiction? Rumor and speculation, or is what I'm hearing tapped into some kind of reality (I trust the two Dealers I heard this from- but also know they're not the endall of inside information!)?
peacockcoins
0
Comments
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>Not a full point or two, mind you- but what may have been a 'gift 65' (64.9) will now be in the tighter holder (64). >>
NGC should have done this from the beginning and not give gift grades. I commend PCGS for not giving in to the grading escalation and not giving gift grades. If the coin deserves the grade then so be it, but they should not be giving a grade as a gift or an "almost there MS-65."
Cameron Kiefer
at amazon or wherever.
Scott M
Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker
PCGS does the same thing, believe me. For some reason though, when PCGS does it, it's not considered the crime that it is when NGC does it.
With all the coins that those two companies grade, it is a fact of life that many will be undergraded and many will be overgraded. I'm not complaining, just pointing out that they are imperfect. The coins that are graded conservatively get cracked out and resubmitted (often, repeatedly). The ones that are liberally graded either go into the hands of the unsuspecting or float around at shows and/or in auctions for months or even years.
<< <i>when PCGS does it, it's not considered the crime that it is when NGC does it. >>
Considered by who? The members of this forum or the coin community as a whole?
Cameron Kiefer
That's why old time collections with nice for the grade coins go for absolutely insane prices. Compared to the slop that prevails, they are undergraded.
Cameron Kiefer
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
"<< when PCGS does it, it's not considered the crime that it is when NGC does it. >>
Considered by who? The members of this forum or the coin community as a whole?"
The answer is both.
TDN - sadly, I must concur with your observation. And, there is nothing I can think of that will change the situation on a permanent basis, at least. Sure, tighter grading allows some opportunities to acquire nice, accurately graded coins. But, before long, those coins are either off the market in the resubmission stashes of sharp collectors or dealers or in higher grade holders. Over time, the vast majority of rare coins get max'd out grade-wise, to the point where they're not too desirable at those grades.
I have seen two coins graded side by side and the lower graded coin is much much nicer under the glass and in eye appeal in my opinion. I don't want favors, just consistency.
I want them to play by the rules that they have in print.
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Greg
The disparity in price between the Big 2 had gotten way out of hand. Until this year I had never bought an NGC slab in 35+ yrs. The price difference was too much too many times and I dove in, now own 3 NGC and should 3x that by year end.
As for the "rumours" they are just that. I love these unsubstansiated claims. Read below:
I heard on the bourse floor that ACG will buy back all their slabs MS60 and above and will tighten grading by 3pts. Honest!
As far as Morgans go, NGC has already tightened up CONSIDERABLY in the past 12-18 months and they now grade them on par with PCGS IMO, which means NGC has actually tightened up more than PCGS has.
As far as NGC taking all their 'bad' coins off the market, that can and will never happen. Consevatively, NGC has probably over 75 million in grossly overgraded Morgans and generic gold out in the marketplace in their holders which were all graded in the mid 90's. NGC cannot even put a dent in taking all that low end dredge off the market in their holders.
I cannot even tell you how many common date NGC graded MS65, MS66, and MS67 Morgans I've seen in their previous design holders that are just silly overgraded by their standards of today, along with nearly every NGC DMPL dollar graded several years ago. Same goes for a ton of overgraded Saints, $20.00 Libs, $10.00 Libs, etc, etc. There is just no way they can buy all these coins back.
dragon
<< <i>
<< <i>Not a full point or two, mind you- but what may have been a 'gift 65' (64.9) will now be in the tighter holder (64). >>
NGC should have done this from the beginning and not give gift grades. I commend PCGS for not giving in to the grading escalation and not giving gift grades. If the coin deserves the grade then so be it, but they should not be giving a grade as a gift or an "almost there MS-65." >>
What about PCGS giving "shaft grades" where low end MS65s are graded as MS64s? NGC is baaaaaadddd for giving so-called gift grades, but PCGS is grrreeeaatttt for being inconsistent hard asses?
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Thanks for the heads up. PCGS take Notice, be a leader, not a follower!
Bulldog
No good deed will go unpunished.
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Example
1952-S NGC 67 RD
1952-S PCGS MS67 RD
When I first started collecting Lincolns I bought 10 NGC MS-67 Lincolns. I sent them to PCGS as cross-overs......... NONE CROSSED! I was pissed! So I cracked them all out and resubmitted them to PCGS raw! ALL of them graded MS-66!
EAC news letter just had a study about the grading service.... NGC came in the worst for over grading Large cents. PCGS, then ANACS and NGC last. (Note here..... EAC thinks everyone over grades... and has it's own sub-sect grading standards)
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Where is the correct price of an MS66, MS67, MS68?
Isn't it likely that the market values the NGC as an average MS67 and the PCGS as a hard ass MS67 this day?
Right now, pricing is a total mess. A solidly graded NGC coin is bringing pretty close to sheet, but might be a bit illiquid. A solid for the grade PCGS coin is bringing a slight premium and is a bit more liquid. BUT, the slight majority of NGC coins are selling at a discount and the majority of PCGS coins aren't even on the marketplace because the owners know better than to sell them for anything less than a 75% premium! Same with the PQ NGC coins that won't cross for whatever has been the reason - they aren't on the marketplace either because they won't bring a price commensurate to their quality! So the marketplace is left with the dregs from both companies and the middle for the grade "stuff" that is mostly illiquid because the price sheets aren't keeping up with the market!
Eloquently spoken and a wonderful synopsis...good call.