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Coin dealer Ron Gillio arrested
truthteller
Posts: 1,240 ✭✭
This update from KCOY news website today:
"December 4, 2002 6:53 PM
Scam Investigation
Two prominent local businessmen are accused of duping a famous photographer. The arrest this week of two antique dealers caps off a three year investigation into financial elder abuse and grand theft.
According to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Department James O’Mahoney and Ronald Gillio befriended 94 year old photographer Josef Muench. Detectives say the famous photographer, who died in 1998, suffered from dementia and that the two men only paid him a small sum for his very valuable work.
The Sheriff’s Department seized a large quantity of Muench’s prints and negatives while serving search warrants on both men earlier this year.Gillio, an antique coin, jewelry, and art dealer, owns a prominent State Street business and is a member of two professional organizations that uphold strict codes of ethics. O’Mahoney owns the Santa Barbara Surfing Museum.
His friends say they don’t believe he’s capable of doing what he’s accused of, both face felony charges of grand theft and elder financial abuse. O’Mahoney is still in custody, but Gillio made bail. He did not return our calls today.A civil case against the two men is also pending"
Looks like Long Beach fees are going up again and doesn't say much for PNG membership.
TRUTH
"December 4, 2002 6:53 PM
Scam Investigation
Two prominent local businessmen are accused of duping a famous photographer. The arrest this week of two antique dealers caps off a three year investigation into financial elder abuse and grand theft.
According to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Department James O’Mahoney and Ronald Gillio befriended 94 year old photographer Josef Muench. Detectives say the famous photographer, who died in 1998, suffered from dementia and that the two men only paid him a small sum for his very valuable work.
The Sheriff’s Department seized a large quantity of Muench’s prints and negatives while serving search warrants on both men earlier this year.Gillio, an antique coin, jewelry, and art dealer, owns a prominent State Street business and is a member of two professional organizations that uphold strict codes of ethics. O’Mahoney owns the Santa Barbara Surfing Museum.
His friends say they don’t believe he’s capable of doing what he’s accused of, both face felony charges of grand theft and elder financial abuse. O’Mahoney is still in custody, but Gillio made bail. He did not return our calls today.A civil case against the two men is also pending"
Looks like Long Beach fees are going up again and doesn't say much for PNG membership.
TRUTH
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Comments
dragon
<< <i>Looks like Long Beach fees are going up again and doesn't say much for PNG membership. >>
Long Beach fees going up: Shocking!
PNG Membership means little: Shocking!
Next time you post Truth please tell me something I DON'T know. lol
jom
dragon
TRUTH
<< <i> paid $2500 for the collection valued at $1 million >>
Do you think they made any money in "flipping" the merchandise? I'm not sure...overhead costs are a killer.
jom
dragon
No. He'll be appointed to their ethics board.
Was Ron an eBay Powerseller? They have special immunity from prosecution.
Was Ron simply forwarding cash for coins on consignment? Happens all the time and is a twist on my query last week about a dealer dying with your coins!
Was Ron a website owner, buying tons at auction and a PNG member? If one or all 3 then again special circumstances and he cannot be guilty of any crime.
Well at least we know O'Mahoney does not have the pockets to front bail!
All kidding aside it is too bad. I met Ron a few years ago and he was very friendly and warm, maybe that's how he sucked this old guy. Just goes to show you as the Anaconda said: "The coin bidnez is still bidnez." And yes I know this is not about coins but same principal.
I bet he gets off light, they always do. This is a low risk crime.
TRUTH
Before we start building that gallows for Mr. Gillio let's just sit back and see what develops. This man in my opinion makes too much money legitimately to go around ripping off old folks. He's been in business in Santa Barbara since I was a kid (I'm 45 now) and I don't know of anyone treated unfairly by him or his associates. His business is located in my birthplace some 70 miles south of where I now live and I will be surprised if he is convicted of anything related to this or anything similiar. BTW, this is the same county (Santa Barbara) that just in the last year settled out-of-court for almost $1,000,000 to two bikers that the sheriff's dep't. beat up in a Los Alamos, CA bar. Anything is possible here. (Including the Michael Jackson circus, er, I mean civil trial currently being held here.)
Joe
I agree 1000%. Innocent until proven guilty.
But, it does not look good. Afterall, a 3 year investigation! He still had the prints which were seized "earlier this year". I am surprised it was not exposed earlier.
"This man in my opinion makes too much money legitimately to go around ripping off old folks." This is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Not necessarily about Ron but in general. Just because you see someone bringing in alot of cash does not mean they are making money. There is overhead, taxes, financing costs, etc. all these real expenses which affect the bottom line and do lead people to do bad things to save their business if they run into problems. Sure maybe he made alot but what was his lifestyle? Business overhead? Mortgage? Business debts?
I don't mean to criticize JLW, but people need to be more vigilant and aware. Not everything seems to be what it is all the time.
If I walked into a coin dealer with my 1804 Silver dollar and the coin dealer said it was worth $100, and then proceeded to buy it from me, he would be committing a felony. This is a violation of agency law.
Of course most dealers know this and play silly games like not discussing a value at all or playing "hide the redbook" when an elderly person walks in the door. They excuse paying 50% below greysheet with the trite saying of "seller beware". They call each other and brag about someone they gave a good screwing to. (This is true! I once got a call from a well known dealer gloating about an original S mint roll of Standing Liberty quarters, all mint, that he bought for next to nothing) It's business as usual and any dealer who says it isn't is lying.
Oh yeah, I'm a dealer but I'm a collector first.
<< <i>If I walked into a coin dealer with my 1804 Silver dollar and the coin dealer said it was worth $100, and then proceeded to buy it from me, he would be committing a felony. This is a violation of agency law. >>
Agreed, but if instead of saying it was WORTH $100 he had said "I'll pay $100 for it." and then you agree and sell it to him, he has done nothing illegal. Wrong, yes but illegal, no. Proper choice of words is important.
K S
Let's change the scenario a bit. You walk into the store with an 1804 $1 at 94 years of age, with some dementia, you are then 'befriended'(as stated in the store), then say "I'll pay you $100 for your coin". I guess it's OK then.
At that age, under those conditions, I don't care what the wording is, the crime has been commited.
TRUTH
I am with you on this one. At this point in my life I am dealing with two sets of aging parents. Some days I feel like I'm battling the forces of evil themselves trying to keep away the scam artists that view older people in our society as easy pickings.
My parents almost linked up with this group that did "senior estate services." When I met these guys I almost flipped. Rolex's and smarm beyond the pale. After a minimum of damage this relationship was severed. That particular company is now involved in litigation up to their eyeballs where I live.
Taking advantage (and outright abuse) of the elderly is particularly odious to me.
As far as Mr. Gillio's innocence or guilt, I have no opinion one way or the other. But, what he is accused of is a scenario that is all too common. Maybe it always has been.
Carl
No amount of parsing of language will make what Gillio did -- if true -- acceptable to a jury. The jury has a funny way of determining guilt from innocence. If it can be proved that Gillio actually did what they say he did, and if the DA got an indictment, then chances are the jury will convict simply because the action itself is proved, and the jury will simply judge intent. On intent, the jury will show no mercy because they will be afraid that someone will scam them in their twilight years, and they will convict and they will impose a harsh sentence.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
The main issue however isn't the price paid, but the advice sought as to value. An informed collector armed with a bluebook would have no claim of being defrauded since he/she is not relying on the dealer to establish a value. HOWEVER, most of the profit made in the coin market isn't from collectors, it is from estate liquidations. People without a shred of knowlege in numismatics will enter a coin shop with grandpa's collection and ask the "professional" coin dealer to establish a value.
In a case like this, an agency relationship is created the second the seller comes through the door. Most dealers hold themselves out as professionals in the field of numismatics in order to attract business, so they can't simply turn themselves into a self-interested competing buyer on command. In a perfect world, one dealer would advise the seller on value while another dealer would act as a buying agent just like it's done with real estate.
Of course everyone knows what happens when this is suggested. The dealer gets pissy, demands an appraisal fee or declines to value the coins at all, and has a temper tantrum that grandpa's collection is going to someone else. I've seen it happen a thousand times and I'm sure I'll see it again. Gotta love the coin market.
How would someone go about taking action against a dealer that paid them way less than a coin(s) worth? Sounds like that would be a tough case to prove.
I am aware that the now famous 1896-S Morgan that is now in a PCGS MS69 holder, was purchased over the counter a number of years ago by a dealer in Chicago from a non-numismatic lady for practically nothing.
dragon
Bulldog
No good deed will go unpunished.
Free Money Search
I've had only one dealing with Gillio and was quite happy. Many of you might recall my quest a few months back to find a Mercury 16d as a gift for the wife who was starting to collect the Mercs. I evenually found and purchased a PCGS G6 at a VERY fair price from Gillio's store. I was impressed with them during my business transaction, but then I was never in contact with Ron himself, Grace handled my transaction.
K S
out of the antique and coin biz."
That may be the "TRUTH", Truth, but very "Cruel and Inhuman Punishment" !
Ken
EVP ,
Yeah, right... Like O.J. Simpson !
Ken
I'm sure they won't mind me posting it here.
From: <Halfsense@aol.com>
Subject: Statement on behalf of Ron Gillio
The statement below is distributed by Donn Pearlman of ITQ/Minkus & Dunne
Communications, Chicago, (312) 541-8787 x 238. For additional information on
this matter, please contact Mr. S. R. Balash, Jr., Attorney At Law, Office:
(805) 962-0026 or Cellular: (805) 895-4858. Thank you for your consideration
of this item. -donn-
-----------------------------
For immediate release
December 5, 2002
News media contact:
S. R. Balash, Jr., Attorney At Law
1215 De La Vina St., Suite I, Santa Barbara, CA 93101
Office Phone: (805) 962-0026
Cellular Phone: (805) 895-4858
Fax: (805) 966-9606
E: srb4def@earthlink.net
-- Statement On Behalf Of Ron Gillio --
Contrary to news media reports, Ron Gillio never purchased photographs
directly from Josef Muench. In fact, he only met him once, and that was in
June of 1996 and no business was conducted. Mr. Gillio purchased various
Muench photographs directly from James O'Mahoney between early 1996 and 1998
at a cost of more than $150,000, a fair and reasonable price at the time.
Mr. Gillio is an ethical businessman conducting his normal business
operations, and has been inappropriately charged with elder abuse and theft
despite the fact that he had no business dealings with Mr. Muench.
Mr. Gillio has been an established and respected businessman in Santa Barbara
since 1970, buying and selling antiques, rare coins and other collectibles at
fair and reasonable prices. In the course of his business he buys various
property from people offering items for sale. Mr. Gillio provides
authentication, certification, grading, conservation and/or matting of the
items, and resells that property to buyers locally through his retail store,
through his wholesale network and via the Internet.
In early 1996, Mr. Gillio was contacted by Mr. O'Mahoney who offered to sell
him photographs and negatives shot by Mr. Muench. Mr. Gillio examined the
materials and inquired about their authenticity and ownership status. Mr.
O'Mahoney indicated the materials were authentic and that he had good title
to them.
Between 1996 and 1998, Mr. Gillio purchased various photographs and negatives
from Mr. O'Mahoney. Mr. Gillio later decided to sell the photographs from
the gallery portion of his store and hired Mr. O'Mahoney to be the gallery
manager. However, sales were meager and the gallery closed leaving unsold
inventory and a significant financial loss to Mr. Gillio.
###
I *just* got it and was about to see if I can find your email addr to fwd it onto you for comment... What the heck? And, who the heck is HalfSense? What kind of a half wit would send this crap to me? Like I care... (about the testimonial).
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
a well known dealer paid $50,000 for a wonderful $500,000 collection from an elderly widow. She was originally offered something like $5,000 for the collection from a small part-time dealer selling out a Hartford department store. I guess the $50,000 looked pretty good after that. I believe the purchasing dealer was a member of various "prestigious" coin organizations. Like someone said, this does happen all too often.
roadrunner
The statement below is distributed by Donn Pearlman of ITQ/Minkus & Dunne
Sounds like a public relations [spin doctor] firm!
Like I really care about some stupid testimonial as well!!
Dr. Steve
Looking for uncirculated Indian Heads and PRS electric guitars
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
1) Iwog - To be a 'professional' here in California, you must obtain a license from the State to practice your profession. Coin dealers have no such licensing requirement, so your argument if flawed. Furthermore, the Internal Revenue Code specifies who it considers to be a 'professional' re which professions are deemed to be "professional corporations," and numismatists, coin dealers, etc., are not included in their definition.
Perhaps a forum member who is a lawyer familiar with the California Civil Procedures Code can add his or her 2 cents on this.
2) Some people erroneously believe that if someone is making a great deal of money, that it would not be logical for this individual to engage in underhanded tactics to get still more money. WRONG! As a CPA, I've seen a disturbing number of people who do not have the word 'enough' in their vocabularies.
3) I sincerely hope Mr. Gilio is not guilty of this crime. If he is, he should be garroted. As another poster mentioned, my parents are also elderly. Dad was Phi Beta Kappa in college, and it pains me to see that he's nowhere near as sharp as he used to be. Fortunately, my parents look to me regarding financial matters and I have the required expertise, so the scenario he described will not happen.
Elder abuse to me is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I put it in the same category as child molestation.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I will not comment on Gillio's innocence or gult until the case, if any is tried, with a verdict is rendered.
Now onto Donn Perlman, who is from Skokie, IL, he is one of the best and funniest numismatic writers of all times and has been a prolific writer for the Numismatist, the monthly ANA magazine. If anyone knows what is going on it would be Donn. He is really good at what he does and an excellent publicist, as well.
Read some of his articles in the Numismatist, one of them "Los Angeles on $4 million a day." It is a riot.
Once you all do a little due diligence on who Donn Pearlman is, you would all agree that he was one of the better choices to write on behalf of Gillio although I am not out to defend or condemn the guy (all I keep reading that those LB fees keep going up and up and up)!
I watched Pearlman in action for a number of years and I like the guy very much indeed. He has a very pleasant personality. Gillio, I do not know as well, so unfair to comment.
I also don't know the facts about his case other than what I have read here.
Believe it or not, people get accused of things they have not done. It happens every day.
We should all consider him innocent until proven guilty and accord him the benefit of the doubt.
Isn't that what we would want?
adrian
Let me point out some of the discussions in this thread regarding the heinousness of the action is based on a hypothetical: IF MR. GILLIO (OR ANYONE ELSE) TOOK A 94 Y/O MAN FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR. I guess some folks here like to discuss the hypothetical, and then try to be journeyman talking head legal experts (like me!).
As for Mr. Perlman, I would just as soon assume that he's a decent and upstanding fellow. I just was perplexed that he sent a testimonial on behalf of Mr. Gillio's lawyers. And, that he sent it to me. I honestly didn't care about the testimonial. I stand behind my belief that a person is innocent until proven guilty. But, even guilty people will proclaim their innocence. Hence, the testimonial is meaningless to me (unless I were on the jury listening to testimonials from both sides).
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
As indicated at the top of the item, the comments were issued by S. R. Balash, Jr., an attorney representing Ron, and I distributed the statement to various news organizations. (Ron is a longtime, good friend.)
For those who don't know me, I'm a former Chicago broadcaster and journalist, former ANA Board member, and numismatic author. My work these days involves public relations, marketing and advertising, and, yes, some of my clients are in collectibles fields (coins, stamps, sports memorabilia, historical documents, art, etc.).
For those who do know me -- I no longer toss paperwads in the office.
Sincerely,
-donn-
Sounds like there is an awful lot that you could contribute to the forum here. Welcome, outside of this one subject and thread, I hope you find reason to stick around and interact with everyone here. It can be a pretty interesting experience.
Carl
Welcome to the zoo {boards}.
Your back page quips I'll miss [ex ana member} and congratulations on breaking that nasty paper wad habit
Tim