Winthrop Carner Rare Coins
jamesfsm
Posts: 652 ✭✭
There is this dealer in Dallas, Texas named Winthrop Carner. Have you heard of him?
He's had a bunch of decent but not spectacular coins on eBay with high opening bids. I emailed and offered to buy a few that have been hanging around eBay a long time for over 90% of his opening bid and he said, politely, "no way."
Query: Are his coins that nice?
He's had a bunch of decent but not spectacular coins on eBay with high opening bids. I emailed and offered to buy a few that have been hanging around eBay a long time for over 90% of his opening bid and he said, politely, "no way."
Query: Are his coins that nice?
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I would buy from him anytime.
TBT
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<< <i>Funny because after listing the darn thing about 8 times each at $5.30 he's losing money compared to where he would have been if he'd accepted my offer in the first place. >>
no one will ever accuse win carner of being one of the brighter crayons in the box when it comes to business. in a word he's 'moody'.
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I would sure like you to explain why it is good to let an auction run over and over for three months with no interest rather than just sell the coin.
In high school, I worked at an old fashioned lumber yard and hardware store that had to "turn" its inventory every 6 months. The price ordinarily was the price. No haggling. But, if somebody came in and offered to relieve the owners of a dog item in inventory for 8-10 months or longer, you bet they'd try to sell it and would negotiate. It's called BUSINESS and the idea is to SELL not to prove some moral issue or be hard-headed.
What is the "edge" of listing an item on eBay with a $500 BIN for 15++ insertions rather than sell it now for $480. Where is the sense in that?
Or he may not want his customers who pay his asking prices to feel like they got a bum deal by not haggling, i.e. the Saturn car dealer approach.
here's a little insight on how win carner does things. around 1995 he bid excessively hi prices (and shut me out!) in stack's auction of the ed milas mint state c and d gold collection. the following year he auctioned those coins back thru stack's and they garnered about a third to half what he originally paid...and i got mine. given that, i wouldn't expect to make a great deal of sense from his business habits.
I've had the same thing happen with them. He had an AU-58 1921 Peace Dollar listed for MS-63 money on E-Bay for months. I e-mailed a fairer price, he told me off, and I bought a solid MS-63 from PQPeace here on the boards instead. Some of his coins seem really nice, some get re-listed a lot.
Our local Saturn dealer now accepts "haggling" for those car buyers who won't feel good without it.
Thanks for your insight. It is VERY hard to develop a following in today's Internet World. That is especially true when collectors auction off their seconds, duplicates and stuff they got tired of, much of which is nice and in slabs. I am sure that Mr. Carner is a decent guy but his business sense makes no sense to me. So many have told me they got turned off by his rejection of offers in a trade (coins) where offers and counteroffers goes with the turf, that they will NEVER deal with him. Now, that is NOT developing a following.
I have bought one coin from Mr. Carner, an AU58 Bust 50C that was double + the going rate and to me was not special so I returned it. He was gracious and fair in giving a refund. I have offered to buy 2-3 coins thereafter, all close to his listed price, all offers rejected. All of those coins are still in his inventory.
Sadly, it is a bargain hunting society and I too like a bargain. I have gotten some real "deals" on ebay and some bad deals. But my batting average seems better buying from other collectors on eBay than from dealers on eBay or at shows. I think that is because, when a collector goes to sell his Lafayette $1 ANACS MS63, he's just trying to get his $900 back so he can buy an MS64. A dealer is thinking of alot more than that.
Well, maybe I have said too much. I wish Mr. Carner well but it looks like he lost a few customers just on these boards over a few dollars.
JAMES
I have never known him to do ANYTHING unethical.
He's like every other person on the planet, he's not perfect. But, to the person who commented on his IQ (not the brightest crayon in the box) - do you really know him and are you really qualified to pass on his IQ? I would think that a person who makes a derogatory public statement about another's IQ might actually be saying, even more loudly and clearly that "I am not in possession of a high IQ or I am bereft of sound judgment or both."
Finally, with regard to Mr. Carner's IQ: he is self employed (his time is his own and no one tells him what to do), he drives a brand new car, and he's been a full time coin dealer for many years, something some of us only dream about.
<< <i>no one will ever accuse win carner of being one of the brighter crayons in the box when it comes to business >>
anaconda,
the comment was about his business IQ. i believe that he is both knowledgable and ethical. the thread, imho, related to his approach to sales. if you feel the need to flame me then at least get the context of what i wrote correct.
I know dealers have bills to pay and such but in the world of the internet/ebay there is a much greater connection of collector to collector than ever before. As James said, when the collector goes to sell he just wants his money back and maybe a small buck more. The seller and the buyer will end with a better deal. If I need the dealers knowledge, grading or other expertise then I can expect to pay for it, but if he's just selling coins in competition with collectors then he better sell at those prices or he'll get stuck holding and relisting.
I will now attempt to flame you in the correct context....
So that the full weight of your opinion can be appreciated by this audience, why don't you itemize your qualifications for rendering this opinion.
I take it you are either formally educated in business or that you have had many years as a successful businessman? Please elaborate. Thanks!
Does that even qualify as a flaming? It seemed pretty soft.
adrian
<< <i>$5 a pop ten times ($50) and I ask for a $20 discount and the answer is no >>
is not to bad a deal. he said over 90 percent so lets say it was 90% he wanted a 20 dollar disscount so it was a a coin over 200 dollars if u re-enlist it 10 times its 50 bucks thats 1/4 of the coin. i would take it.. but thats just me...
In addition, that $5.00 figure is high. The max is something like $3.50, plus you get one free relist if it doesn't sell. So it's more like $1.75 per listing.
And there are the intangible reasons already given.
Luckily, last I checked, there are a few other dealers out there if you don't like his policies.
I don't really know Win Carner -- only by reputation, which is fine. But, I do recognize many of the coins he sells. I recognize them because they're nice specimens that I wish I owned. I would imagine that if you're bargain hunting, as some do, then he's not for you. But, if you want quality material and can afford to pay strong for that quality, then I'd give him a shot.
This is, of course, solely my opinion based on a hunch of the man and based on my assessment of his inventory.
But, if you don't walk in his shoes, you really shouldn't criticize him. Certainly you shouldn't knock is business acumen just because he won't sell you his coins on your terms!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
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You pay $3.30 and get your listing. Then you get a free one. Then you pay $3.30. Then a free one. Ten listings thus costs $16.50.
Again, more importantly, he has no idea how many times he will have to re-list it in the future at the time that he gets a lowball offer.
[ Edited to fix unintentional spelling error -- doh!
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<< <i>Does that even qualify as a flaming? It seemed pretty soft >>
adrian, you really suck at flaming - give it up, man!
But I sincerely would like to know more about you like what you do for a living, and what you have accomplished so far. Go ahead, brag on yourself.
adrian
jom
My limited contact with Mr. Carner certainly led me to be impressed by his ethics. That was never the issue. I do think that eBay is a marketplace where alot of collectors sell a few things here and there at modest profit, making it a hard place for full time eBay dealers. I think Mr. Carner does the show circuit- I'm not implying he eBays full-time.
The listing fee for an item $200 and up is $3.30 but if you also use a reserve which is $200 on up they tack on another $2 (to be refunded if reserve is met). So list an item at $9.99 but with a reserve of $300 and your initial fee is $5.30. If it sells you're charged just $3.30, if not then $5.30.
Agentjim is correct, second listing is free IF it sells. If not you pay full boat.
It all adds up quite quickly unfortunately.
(1) he does appear to have integrity and really does seem to want satisfied customers.
however
(2) i feel his prices are too high and what he offers can be located at competitive prices elsewhere.
that said, in some cases, it may be worht extra $ in support of integrity and cust. service.
mr. carner, i hope you read this, as furtiher evidence of my apology of earlier.
K S
Tonelover is right that a reserve costs extra, but Mr. Carner lists his items with a high starting bid and no reserve so it's irrelevant. He does use "buy it now", which adds a nickel or something.
KlectorKid still can't spell or multiply.
And none of it really matters, it's the way he chooses to do business, and nobody is forced to agree with it.
He was even kind enough to email me first to comfirm I REALLY DID want the coin (emphesising it was a "FA02") after the auction was completed. I wrote back that I didn't make a mistake in my bidding and truly did want this "jewel".
He's got a sense of humor. I like that.
peacockcoins
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peacockcoins
The bottom line is that in a free marketplace, people with money can buy what they want and pay what they want; people with product can price it as they see fit and sell (or not) at their option. Tactically (single incidents), a person's policies about negotiating may not be make sense (to the other party), but in the big picture, it works for them (and if it doesn't, that's between them, the tax man and their creditors).
I know Win to have a good eye, to prefer PQ coins, and to be willing to pay premium prices to acquire them. That may explain both his price levels and his reluctance to come off them. He is evidently seeking a customer base that is more interested in quality than price (they do exist).
Peak Numismatics
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