@Rexford said:
What exactly is it that PCGS is expected to do? The amount of time and resources put into chasing down fake slabs would be extreme, and would accomplish very little. There will always be more being produced.
Most of these slabs and the coins inside are very bad fakes, so for the most part I consider the matter of counterfeit slabs to be a non-issue.
The matter that you consider a “non-issue” harms countless unknowing buyers and is terrible for our hobby.
Bad for business too.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Educating the public on what to look for in counterfeits is in itself a daunting task. Many people today have a point and click,instant gratification bent mentality. People don't seem to have the time or don't wish to devote such time to learn. You see the coin, like the price you buy.
On the other hand would be scammers who want a quick flip on the unlearned/unsuspecting "flippee" don't have to learn. They have a graded coin, albeit it counterfeit, but nonetheless looks like to the novice a legitimate offering.
Teaching the skills required in what to look for can be a laborious undertaking, and with the amount of different types of coins to be verified for their legitimacy, quite an undertaking . This does not even include learning about counterfeit holders. But one would think that spending ones hard earned money one would be more investigative. It's about the time factor. Some just don't have it.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Trying to monitor and curtail these abuses with a staff of a few reminds me of speeding drivers. The police can't stop everyone speeding they can only put the doubt in your mind it could be you caught. In other words while injecting a presence that some of the counterfeiters may be caught, many will not. So is the expense to run down those caught justified against the ones who get away?
Yes, a deterrent effect of visible enforcement would help a lot, but much like the border crisis, there are some highly effective things that can be done right away. Namely PCGS could tell ebay that their AI is rejecting valid complaints about fake slabs and get them to take reports more seriously. I know most of us don't bother reporting anything because it's futile. But if it wasn't, the problem listings would be a small fraction of what they are now to the point where we wouldn't have threads like this.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@mr1931S said:
Not being able to "react" to your own post here needs to change. Facebook lets one give his or her self a like or some so why not here?
I gave you a "Like". Here's a . Are you happy now?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Educating the public on what to look for in counterfeits is in itself a daunting task. Many people today have a point and click,instant gratification bent mentality. People don't seem to have the time or don't wish to devote such time to learn. You see the coin, like the price you buy.
On the other hand would be scammers who want a quick flip on the unlearned/unsuspecting "flippee" don't have to learn. They have a graded coin, albeit it counterfeit, but nonetheless looks like to the novice a legitimate offering.
Teaching the skills required in what to look for can be a laborious undertaking, and with the amount of different types of coins to be verified for their legitimacy, quite an undertaking . This does not even include learning about counterfeit holders. But one would think that spending ones hard earned money one would be more investigative. It's about the time factor. Some just don't have it.
I have given many numismatic seminars over the years. Sadly the classes that get people attending out the door are the ones that are supposed to tell them, "How do I make money with coins?" To a fair number of people, nothing else matters which makes me wonder why they want to be collectors.
That mentality will not "make you money." In fact it's quite the opposite.
A guru can give you list of coins that going to go up in price next year. BUT if you buy the wrong piece that does not measure up to the grade on the slab, you will not get what you want. That goes to infinity if you buy a counterfeit in a counterfeit slab. In that case, you have nothing.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The new import tariffs of low valued stuff coming in from Asia could slow cheap counterfeits. I am not sure what is going to happen, but my eBay purchases are now limited to from US only.
@Rexford said:
What exactly is it that PCGS is expected to do? The amount of time and resources put into chasing down fake slabs would be extreme, and would accomplish very little. There will always be more being produced.
Most of these slabs and the coins inside are very bad fakes, so for the most part I consider the matter of counterfeit slabs to be a non-issue.
If nothing more, it is in the interest of PCGS, NGC, CAC, et al, to aggressively go after this strictly to protect their turf in the business. All of the marketing in the world isn't going to help you if people think much of the material bearing your logo is bogus.
Tangentially, a number of years ago, I saw a handful of detailed threads here highlighting factories in China producing fake U.S. coins of every kind imaginable. Their owners even bragged how efficient they were at cranking them out.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@davewesen said:
The new import tariffs of low valued stuff coming in from Asia could slow cheap counterfeits. I am not sure what is going to happen, but my eBay purchases are now limited to from US only.
on our most hated sites, they sell common date lincolns which will be impacted, but they also sell key dates. 1893-s? thousands, but the tariff will just be another cost of doing business
@mr1931S said:
Not being able to "react" to your own post here needs to change. Facebook lets one give his or her self a like or some so why not here?
It's already implied that you agree with yourself. Do we really need it expressly shown?
I wonder which of his posts in this thread he loved ...
And how is this possibly relevant to the topic here? Looks like ignore again ...
Then when I make a post you can sneak a peek at what I've written.
This post is one where I would love to do a LOL. I think most here would agree an LOL from me on my own post would trump boring crickets from burfle most any day of the week.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Thanks, but @mr1931S can't hassle me with his sad antics, as he previously blew up one of my threads here and the host closed it. But I can't understand why he is so drawn to my posts ...
And I don't make noise just to break the silence...
@MsMorrisine said:
i read burfle's every post. they're not to be missed
How do you feel when you get crickets from burfle?
Please stop harassing burfle23; he is a valued member of this Forum.
Let the record show the question was for MsMorrisine not you or burfle. Please don't butt into other members' exchanges. It's very rude. Let burfle speak for himself. I'm surprised PCGS is tolerating this thread. Got a question for PCGS? Ask them privately. No need to sputter at them publicly in a thread like this.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
@MsMorrisine said:
i read burfle's every post. they're not to be missed
How do you feel when you get crickets from burfle?
Please stop harassing burfle23; he is a valued member of this Forum.
Let the record show the question was for MsMorrisine not you or burfle. Please don't butt into other members' exchanges. It's very rude. Let burfle speak for himself. I'm surprised PCGS is tolerating this thread. Got a question for PCGS? Ask them privately. No need to sputter at them publicly in a thread like this.
The record also shows that you didn’t ask @burfle23 your question - you asked someone else about him (and in doing so, appeared to be taking a jab at him). So based on your above reasoning, if he’d responded to your question, that also would have been butting in and very rude.
Got a question for a forum member that’s about a different forum member? Ask it privately.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MsMorrisine said:
i read burfle's every post. they're not to be missed
How do you feel when you get crickets from burfle?
Please stop harassing burfle23; he is a valued member of this Forum.
Let the record show the question was for MsMorrisine not you or burfle. Please don't butt into other members' exchanges. It's very rude. Let burfle speak for himself. I'm surprised PCGS is tolerating this thread. Got a question for PCGS? Ask them privately. No need to sputter at them publicly in a thread like this.
The record also shows that you didn’t ask @burfle23 your question - you asked someone else about him (and in doing so, appeared to be taking a jab at him). So based on your above reasoning, if he’d responded to your question, that also would have been butting in and very rude.
Got a question for a forum member that’s about a different forum member? Ask it privately.
Oh, I know and that's normally what I would do. I was adressing IkesT's speaking for burfle. You would have gotten that with a little more careful read of my post. Gonna chew me out at least get the story right.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I recently had an epiphany worth sharing. What would happen if eBay was able to somehow prevent every listing that was either fraudulent, stupidly overpriced, fake, or just had a very blurry photo?
Then it would be very easy to write a program that would scoop up good deals based on price guide data, and there would be no good deals left for the knowledgeable buyer. Be careful what you wish for.
@MsMorrisine said:
i read burfle's every post. they're not to be missed
How do you feel when you get crickets from burfle?
Please stop harassing burfle23; he is a valued member of this Forum.
Let the record show the question was for MsMorrisine not you or burfle. Please don't butt into other members' exchanges. It's very rude. Let burfle speak for himself. I'm surprised PCGS is tolerating this thread. Got a question for PCGS? Ask them privately. No need to sputter at them publicly in a thread like this.
The record also shows that you didn’t ask @burfle23 your question - you asked someone else about him (and in doing so, appeared to be taking a jab at him). So based on your above reasoning, if he’d responded to your question, that also would have been butting in and very rude.
Got a question for a forum member that’s about a different forum member? Ask it privately.
Oh, I know and that's normally what I would do. I was adressing IkesT's speaking for burfle. You would have gotten that with a little more careful read of my post. Gonna chew me out at least get the story right.
I read your post carefully enough to know precisely whom you were addressing and did get the story right.
You might have gotten that with a more careful read of my post.
My comments stand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What exactly is it that PCGS is expected to do? The amount of time and resources put into chasing down fake slabs would be extreme, and would accomplish very little. There will always be more being produced.
Most of these slabs and the coins inside are very bad fakes, so for the most part I consider the matter of counterfeit slabs to be a non-issue.
PCGS is the hands down leader in making their product the safest and most secure in the industry. The counterfeit slab problem on ebay is not PCGS's problem to solve.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
@Rexford said:
What exactly is it that PCGS is expected to do? The amount of time and resources put into chasing down fake slabs would be extreme, and would accomplish very little. There will always be more being produced.
Most of these slabs and the coins inside are very bad fakes, so for the most part I consider the matter of counterfeit slabs to be a non-issue.
the matter you consider a "non-issue" is a real issue as evidenced by the completed sales of counterfeits accompanied by positive feedback
Completed sales of counterfeits are always to unsuspecting, totally innocent buyers? I doubt it. When the knowledgeable collector sees multiple examples of truly scarce coins available for purchase from an ebay seller at a fraction of the price shown in the Redbook, the collector should be avoiding purchasing ANYTHING from that seller. Willful ignorance is a choice. Make that choice if you want but you don't get any sympathy from me when you get fleeced.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I appreciate folk’s comments, but I have no time for feeble folks looking to make a noise just to show how important they think they are.
I don’t even mind “crickets” on my posts, as to me it is and always has been about getting the word out to as many in the Hobby in as many forums as I can about these threats to our Hobby.
So expect continuing cricket posts here in the future and please just don’t click on them if you already know you don’t like the poster or content…
Comments
Bad for business too.
Educating the public on what to look for in counterfeits is in itself a daunting task. Many people today have a point and click,instant gratification bent mentality. People don't seem to have the time or don't wish to devote such time to learn. You see the coin, like the price you buy.
On the other hand would be scammers who want a quick flip on the unlearned/unsuspecting "flippee" don't have to learn. They have a graded coin, albeit it counterfeit, but nonetheless looks like to the novice a legitimate offering.
Teaching the skills required in what to look for can be a laborious undertaking, and with the amount of different types of coins to be verified for their legitimacy, quite an undertaking . This does not even include learning about counterfeit holders. But one would think that spending ones hard earned money one would be more investigative. It's about the time factor. Some just don't have it.
Yes, a deterrent effect of visible enforcement would help a lot, but much like the border crisis, there are some highly effective things that can be done right away. Namely PCGS could tell ebay that their AI is rejecting valid complaints about fake slabs and get them to take reports more seriously. I know most of us don't bother reporting anything because it's futile. But if it wasn't, the problem listings would be a small fraction of what they are now to the point where we wouldn't have threads like this.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Did I hear someone say "bent mentality". Is that the same as I am making money, "leave me alone" ?
Not being able to "react" to your own post here needs to change. Facebook lets one give his or her self a like or some
so why not here?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I wonder if the seller is willing to take a bad check to close the loop?
I can't stand how eBay keeps advertising that everything sold on it is genuine.
https://search.aol.com/aol/video;_ylt=AwrjJqbtjfJnq8QbBG9pCWVH;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj?q=eBay+ad+claiming+everything+genuine&v_t=loki-tb-sb#id=103&vid=1cd3d6e0174e0fb16b55bc3bc069a73d&action=view
You made me chuckle!!! How self-serving is that, but I am not surprised!
I gave you a "Like". Here's a
. Are you happy now?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have given many numismatic seminars over the years. Sadly the classes that get people attending out the door are the ones that are supposed to tell them, "How do I make money with coins?" To a fair number of people, nothing else matters which makes me wonder why they want to be collectors.
That mentality will not "make you money." In fact it's quite the opposite.
A guru can give you list of coins that going to go up in price next year. BUT if you buy the wrong piece that does not measure up to the grade on the slab, you will not get what you want. That goes to infinity if you buy a counterfeit in a counterfeit slab. In that case, you have nothing.
It's already implied that you agree with yourself. Do we really need it expressly shown?
http://ProofCollection.Net
I wonder which of his posts in this thread he loved
...
And how is this possibly relevant to the topic here? Looks like ignore again
...
Weird update- received notices yesterday eBay removed 2 of them...
The new import tariffs of low valued stuff coming in from Asia could slow cheap counterfeits. I am not sure what is going to happen, but my eBay purchases are now limited to from US only.
If nothing more, it is in the interest of PCGS, NGC, CAC, et al, to aggressively go after this strictly to protect their turf in the business. All of the marketing in the world isn't going to help you if people think much of the material bearing your logo is bogus.
Tangentially, a number of years ago, I saw a handful of detailed threads here highlighting factories in China producing fake U.S. coins of every kind imaginable. Their owners even bragged how efficient they were at cranking them out.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
on our most hated sites, they sell common date lincolns which will be impacted, but they also sell key dates. 1893-s? thousands, but the tariff will just be another cost of doing business
The fact that there is such a robust market here in the US for Chinese counterfeits gives me pause.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Then when I make a post you can sneak a peek at what I've written.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
.> @ProofCollection said:
But I don't have to like myself.
This post is one where I would love to do a LOL. I think most here would agree an LOL from me on my own post would trump boring crickets from burfle most any day of the week.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
i read burfle's every post. they're not to be missed
Please stop harassing burfle23; he is a valued member of this Forum.
Thanks, but @mr1931S can't hassle me with his sad antics, as he previously blew up one of my threads here and the host closed it. But I can't understand why he is so drawn to my posts
...
And I don't make noise just to break the silence...
Hopefully gone now; no peaking...
👍
And unfortunately a member shows in jail, hopefully not through this post- @ProofCollection .
No not this topic.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Let the record show the question was for MsMorrisine not you or burfle. Please don't butt into other members' exchanges. It's very rude. Let burfle speak for himself. I'm surprised PCGS is tolerating this thread. Got a question for PCGS? Ask them privately. No need to sputter at them publicly in a thread like this.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
slap fight or dance-off - which will it be gents?
Someone's just a bit grumpy and needs to eat a harschepuppy sandwich. It helps regulate the blood sugar.
The record also shows that you didn’t ask @burfle23 your question - you asked someone else about him (and in doing so, appeared to be taking a jab at him). So based on your above reasoning, if he’d responded to your question, that also would have been butting in and very rude.
Got a question for a forum member that’s about a different forum member? Ask it privately.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I gave you a LOL laughing face. Your comment is ridiculous.
Back to the topic- Love Charles Morgan's Coin Week artwork
...
I musta missed it. Hey, nobody's perfect.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Oh, I know and that's normally what I would do. I was adressing IkesT's speaking for burfle. You would have gotten that with a little more careful read of my post. Gonna chew me out at least get the story right.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I recently had an epiphany worth sharing. What would happen if eBay was able to somehow prevent every listing that was either fraudulent, stupidly overpriced, fake, or just had a very blurry photo?
Then it would be very easy to write a program that would scoop up good deals based on price guide data, and there would be no good deals left for the knowledgeable buyer. Be careful what you wish for.
Coin Photographer and Videographer
https://www.youtube.com/@FriendlyEagle7
from the feedback of a counterfeits seller recently viewed
I read your post carefully enough to know precisely whom you were addressing and did get the story right.
You might have gotten that with a more careful read of my post.
My comments stand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
.> @Rexford said:
PCGS is the hands down leader in making their product the safest and most secure in the industry. The counterfeit slab problem on ebay is not PCGS's problem to solve.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Completed sales of counterfeits are always to unsuspecting, totally innocent buyers? I doubt it. When the knowledgeable collector sees multiple examples of truly scarce coins available for purchase from an ebay seller at a fraction of the price shown in the Redbook, the collector should be avoiding purchasing ANYTHING from that seller. Willful ignorance is a choice. Make that choice if you want but you don't get any sympathy from me when you get fleeced.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I appreciate folk’s comments, but I have no time for feeble folks looking to make a noise just to show how important they think they are.
I don’t even mind “crickets” on my posts, as to me it is and always has been about getting the word out to as many in the Hobby in as many forums as I can about these threats to our Hobby.
So expect continuing cricket posts here in the future and please just don’t click on them if you already know you don’t like the poster or content…