@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Since everyone seems to have forgotten the truth, Pete Rose voluntarily signed his lifetime ban from baseball. It was actually his choice and it was decreed to him by the Commissioner. The Dowd Report generated from the investigation into Pete Rose uncovered and published a lot of information about him including primarily the evidence that he bet on baseball games while managing a baseball team, including games in which he was a participant. That right there is enough regardless of which team he bet on.*
In addition to the gambling, the report privately detailed his relationships with at least one specific underage girl (and allegedly, multiple). The simple fact is Pete Rose was faced with MLB’s findings from the investigation and decided it was in HIS best interests to accept a lifetime ban from Commissioner Bart Giamatti. The stress of this ordeal by many accounts killed Giamatti, and because the deal was made between two men and one was now dead, Pete began a 15 year period where he denied publicly (while having already privately admitted to) betting on baseball games while manger of the Cincinnati Reds. Then, he finally (publicly) admitted to it in his own book to help sales of his own book. Pete Rose lied about this issue - consistently - and was a very low character individual. That has always been his reputation. The idea that we can somehow believe that he never bet against the Reds based on the word of Pete Rose is truly laughable.
Rose was my favorite player growing up. When I read about the underage girls and heard what Vincent had to say on that subject I stopped being a fan. I could have looked the other way on gambling - deserved a ban from baseball but not the HOF. But throw in what he did with minors and happy to have him on the outside looking in.
What exactly is a credible source? An article from 2024 isn't a credible source.
Even newspaper articles from the time are 2nd or 3rd hand information. Even the investigation report is 2nd hand information. I don't know what rose has to say about any of this. I have no idea who the girl or girls are. Were there witnesses?
In a rape case there are only 2 credible sources. The two people involved in the sex. Unless there were witnesses. Any of those people can be lying.
Years after this, Pete Rose sued Dowd for defamation after Dowd called him a statutory rapist on a radio show as he was detailing more of what he’d uncovered for his report.
“Rose acknowledged he had a sexual relationship with the woman in court documents made public Monday, but he said his information and belief was that it started when she was 16. He was 34, married and the father of two children in 1975, when he says he began having sex with the woman, referred to in the filing as "Jane Doe." Rose said he does not recall how long the relationship lasted.
The woman's account does not raise the prospect of a criminal charge for Rose, as it is well past Ohio's statute of limitations. She said they also had sex outside of Ohio when she was 16 or younger, but didn't specify the states, and Rose said their sexual relationship was confined to Ohio. In some states, such as Florida, the legal age of consent is 18.”
Once this was made public, Pete Rose decided to dismiss the charges (with prejudice) when that specific girl showed up and verified Dowd’s story via sworn statement and displayed a willingness to testify.
The age of consent in Ohio at the time was 16. The woman in question testified that she had sex with Rose starting when she was 14, and also that she had sex with him outside of the state of Ohio, but no states were provided.
Why was this stuff about underage girls part of this investigation? Look no further than Michael Bertolini.
I don't know about Ohio. I know that some states in the US do have, or did have, lower ages of consent. Age of consent is not set by the federal government. It's set by state law.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Since everyone seems to have forgotten the truth, Pete Rose voluntarily signed his lifetime ban from baseball. It was actually his choice and it was decreed to him by the Commissioner. The Dowd Report generated from the investigation into Pete Rose uncovered and published a lot of information about him including primarily the evidence that he bet on baseball games while managing a baseball team, including games in which he was a participant. That right there is enough regardless of which team he bet on.*
In addition to the gambling, the report privately detailed his relationships with at least one specific underage girl (and allegedly, multiple). The simple fact is Pete Rose was faced with MLB’s findings from the investigation and decided it was in HIS best interests to accept a lifetime ban from Commissioner Bart Giamatti. The stress of this ordeal by many accounts killed Giamatti, and because the deal was made between two men and one was now dead, Pete began a 15 year period where he denied publicly (while having already privately admitted to) betting on baseball games while manger of the Cincinnati Reds. Then, he finally (publicly) admitted to it in his own book to help sales of his own book. Pete Rose lied about this issue - consistently - and was a very low character individual. That has always been his reputation. The idea that we can somehow believe that he never bet against the Reds based on the word of Pete Rose is truly laughable.
Rose was my favorite player growing up. When I read about the underage girls and heard what Vincent had to say on that subject I stopped being a fan. I could have looked the other way on gambling - deserved a ban from baseball but not the HOF. But throw in what he did with minors and happy to have him on the outside looking in.
Those who believe that Rose didn't have sex with any underage girls must be very young, under 40 are did keep up with this stuff when it was happening.
It also became fairly evident during the course of Dowd's investigation that Rose also bet against the Reds while managing them, too, which is another reason why Rose agreed to being placed on the ineligible lost because Dowd stopped investigating him as a condition of that agreement.
At the very least, it was also a known fact among bookmakers that Rose would not bet on the Reds if Soto or Gullickson were pitching as he did not have any confidence in those two pitchers while managing the team.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Ironic thing is that Rose stayed way more famous (infamous?) and probably made a lot more money as a result of being banned while he was alive than if he'd been inducted. He was able to create this entire industry around his lies, coverup and outrage than if he was just a regular inductee.
He was not a good guy at all (in probably any way), but a great player. As a fan it would be cool to see him inducted. If I was an MLB/HoF person there's no way I'd ever let him in though.
@Tabe said:
I think we can do without putting child rapists who bet on their own teams into the Hall.
I dont care about hearsay. Put him in already.
What hearsay? Both are undisputed facts that Rose himself admitted.
He admitted he's a child rapist? I dont believe it.
“Rose acknowledged he had a sexual relationship with the woman in court documents made public Monday, but he said his information and belief was that it started when she was 16. He was 34, married and the father of two children in 1975, when he says he began having sex with the woman, referred to in the filing as "Jane Doe." Rose said he does not recall how long the relationship lasted.”
She has stated on the record that she was 14 when the affair started; he says he thought she was 16.
Now, I really don’t see any difference between the two ages though clearly the law does; I think it’s disgusting either way.
What we know is certain is that he was a 34 year old married father of two at the time of the affair and it was with a girl who was somewhere between an eighth grader and a high school sophomore.
🤮
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@Tibor said:
Pete broke the rules concerning gambling. The comminisher supposedly has hard copy proof. Pete supposedly admitted to it. No place for him at the HOF in my opinion.
I completely agree.
I didn't read his book, but he admitted to betting on baseball, and games he was involved in.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@CardGeek said:
Where exactly can I look that information up? You mean on the internet?
So you're saying that MLB agreed to withhold information about statutory rape in exchange for what exactly?
Why would information about underage girls be included in an investigation about sports betting?
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It wasn't just about his betting on baseball.
It was pretty common knowledge Pete liked young "hardbodied" women and wasn't concerned about their age.
Pete's gambling problems were also well known.
The Dowd investigation found out a LOT more than Pete wanted revealed. Especially the underage girl statutory rape allegations. Pete did have a long time relationship with a girl that possibly began when she was 14. She loved Pete and won't comment as far as I have seen.
Pete agreed to the ban if MLB agreed not to publish those findings.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Tabe said:
I think we can do without putting child rapists who bet on their own teams into the Hall.
I dont care about hearsay. Put him in already.
What hearsay? Both are undisputed facts that Rose himself admitted.
He admitted he's a child rapist? I dont believe it.
What do you think admitting to a "relationship" with an underage girl means?
It's amazing how clueless some of the people here are.
"Buh Buh Buh I have Pete Rose Cards and want them to go up in value to sell or needs that oh so sweet dopamine hit"
What is amazing is that if an old white guy steals some Baseball Cards at a show the dealers attitude here is "string 'em up" however commit vile disgusting crimes against baseball and children as old white guy Pete Rose did and it's all great.. Buh Buh Buh he had 4191 hits and destroyed Ray Fosse's livelihood for no frickin' reason so no worries...right
BTW factoring his life as a whole in the ledger, Rose may have harmed the Game as much as any player or manager ever has.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@Tabe said:
I think we can do without putting child rapists who bet on their own teams into the Hall.
I dont care about hearsay. Put him in already.
What hearsay? Both are undisputed facts that Rose himself admitted.
He admitted he's a child rapist? I dont believe it.
What do you think admitting to a "relationship" with an underage girl means?
It's amazing how clueless some of the people here are.
"Buh Buh Buh I have Pete Rose Cards and want them to go up in value to sell or needs that oh so sweet dopamine hit"
What is amazing is that if an old white guy steals some Baseball Cards at a show the dealers attitude here is "string 'em up" however commit vile disgusting crimes against baseball and children as old white guy Pete Rose did and it's all great.. Buh Buh Buh he had 4191 hits and destroyed Ray Fosse's livelihood for no frickin' reason so no worries...right
BTW factoring his life as a whole in the ledger, Rose may have harmed the Game as much as any player or manager ever has.
He was a VERY, VERY sick man who NEVER accepted responsibility for his actions. Possibly the most arrogant piece of $hit in history.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@grote15 said:
It also became fairly evident during the course of Dowd's investigation that Rose also bet against the Reds while managing them, too, which is another reason why Rose agreed to being placed on the ineligible lost because Dowd stopped investigating him as a condition of that agreement.
At the very least, it was also a known fact among bookmakers that Rose would not bet on the Reds if Soto or Gullickson were pitching as he did not have any confidence in those two pitchers while managing the team.
His betting angle by deletetion reminds me of a horse racing betting angle. Sometimes it is just as important to know who not to bet in a given situation. As it is who is a capable bet. Who is "out for the air" as far as horse racing goes.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
I'm 50 and I've never heard this much hate for Pete Rose. Never heard anything about young girls till yesterday.
If they were in Ohio and she was 16 she wasn't underage though. It's kinda interesting how some of you guys do consider her underage even though she was legal if she was 16. What age do you think is acceptable? 18 is also just a number set by the state. Would you have been happier if he had married the 16 year old? Do you think that would have ended well? Maybe her mom wanted the divorce money. They do say, "The biggest pimp on planet mf'in earth is her momma,"
I believe, without a doubt, that the Rose fans are setting the bar too low in hoping for HOF enshrinement. They should be pushing for Elonald to decree a change in the names of Cincinnati and Philadelphia to Rose, Ohio and Rose, Pennsylvania, then Montreal, Quebec to Pierre, Quebec, then Cooperstown to Rosetown, New York, and Churchill Downs to Charlie Hustle's Place.
@CardGeek said:
I'm 50 and I've never heard this much hate for Pete Rose. Never heard anything about young girls till yesterday.
If they were in Ohio and she was 16 she wasn't underage though. It's kinda interesting how some of you guys do consider her underage even though she was legal if she was 16. What age do you think is acceptable? 18 is also just a number set by the state. Would you have been happier if he had married the 16 year old? Do you think that would have ended well? Maybe her mom wanted the divorce money. They do say, "The biggest pimp on planet mf'in earth is her momma,"
@mintonlypls said:
Let everyone pile on....geez! No one is a saint...if so, cast the first stone.
"Pile on".........no, the post is about Pete Rose and if he has a chance to be in the HOF.
Some point to his baseball career.
Others counter with the betting on baseball and the messing with children is relevant because he agreed to the lifetime ban to keep that information covered up.
Baseball's rule; bet on baseball and you will not be allowed to participate in the sport and will not be inducted in the HOF.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
The baseball HOF has a character clause, so all of this stuff is relevant to his electability. It might not be appropriate for discussion about a different sport’s HOF, but it’s part of the process for baseball so it’s all fair game.
To me this thread shows exactly why no commissioner will reinstate. No news is harmless. Action will lead to criticism and bad press for baseball - possibly a damaging documentary in response. Downside outweighs the upside of a posthumous induction for MLB.
@brad31 said:
To me this thread shows exactly why no commissioner will reinstate. No news is harmless. Action will lead to criticism and bad press for baseball - possibly a damaging documentary in response. Downside outweighs the upside of a posthumous induction for MLB.
Yep a fine tooth comb will be pulled out and so too the truth. Some like in this thread will never believe it of course, but his name will be forever tarnished even worse than it s now and a new generation will learn all about how despicable he was.
Those of you who have his cards or other sundry memorabilia IMHO huge potential downside if the case is re-opened. No news is good news and or Silence is golden applies. But sure shoot yourself in the foot if you like, I'll be the one ROTFLMFAO.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@CardGeek said:
It's kinda interesting how some of you guys do consider her underage even though she was legal if she was 16.
She wasn't 16. She was 14, as she stated on the record.
But I'm sure the guy who lied about betting on baseball and lied about having an affair is TOTALLY telling the truth about her age. Lol.
I understand she is saying she was 14 after the fact. Why do you give her testimony more weight than his? Why is she even coming forward? Who knows what the truth is. Breaking news: Women and girls can lie too. The person who is giving testimony may not even be the girl he was with. This testimony was in 1988 or something? What if some woman shows up and says she is going to testify against Rose unless he signs? Do you think Rose at that point tries to fight it?
Rose has been pretty popular my entire life. I'm surprised I've never heard any of this till yesterday. I still hear about OJ like every week. It seems like Rose is more guilty now than he ever has been, in your eyes.
It seems like you guys really want to believe that Rose likes 14 year olds.
Interestingly, if you read the Dowd Report wiki article. It doesn't say anything about any of this underage girl stuff. I would think that would be bigger news than betting on baseball games.
I have watched enough To Catch a Predator episodes to know that every single time a pedophile gets caught they always say this was the first time and that they did not know she was underage. Every single time.
So for all you guys in here that choose to believe a well-known habitual liar like Pete Rose, then I guess there really is nothing that will change your mind.
This whole subject kind of reminds me of the early 2000's where people did not want to believe their heroes were taking steroids. No matter how much evidence was shown they drew there line and were sticking with their hero.
@CardGeek said:
I understand she is saying she was 14 after the fact. Why do you give her testimony more weight than his? Why is she even coming forward? Who knows what the truth is. Breaking news: Women and girls can lie too. The person who is giving testimony may not even be the girl he was with. This testimony was in 1988 or something? What if some woman shows up and says she is going to testify against Rose unless he signs? Do you think Rose at that point tries to fight it?
Rose has been pretty popular my entire life. I'm surprised I've never heard any of this till yesterday. I still hear about OJ like every week. It seems like Rose is more guilty now than he ever has been, in your eyes.
It seems like you guys really want to believe that Rose likes 14 year olds.
Why do I give more credit to a witness that has never been found to have lied than a witness who has been busted lying multiple times? Did you really ask that question?
Your other what-if's and straw men are entirely unconvincing. I'm sorry it's taking you time to process news most of us learned long ago.
It seems, despite actual evidence, that you really want to believe your hero wasn't a pedophile.
@CardGeek said:
Interestingly, if you read the Dowd Report wiki article. It doesn't say anything about any of this underage girl stuff. I would think that would be bigger news than betting on baseball games.
Again, you've been pointed to numerous news stories and articles about it.
@CardGeek said:
Interestingly, if you read the Dowd Report wiki article. It doesn't say anything about any of this underage girl stuff. I would think that would be bigger news than betting on baseball games.
It's not "interesting" and I'm not sure what the disconnect is here.
Most of these things were kept out of the public report because Rose agreed to the lifetime ban to end the investigation and put a stop to a formal finding.
Many years later Dowd made some comments in the media about some of the findings which were not made public in his report. Specifically, he referenced Rose's relationship with a minor in the past and he referenced Michael Bertolini's testimony about Rose's frequent relations with young girls.
Rose decided to sue Dowd for defamation... Which was very stupid. In his defense Dowd introduced this other evidence, Bertolini testified, and the woman, known as Jane Doe, came forward with sworn testimony about details of her relationship with Rose which had not previously been made public.
Again, Rose had to back down.
So. The reason it's not either interesting, or surprising, that this information is not in the Dowd report on wiki is because it was not released in the Dowd report.
For the record, I found your "age is just a number" argument to be a bit off putting.
Rose isn’t a saint…but no one on here including myself is either.
I have trouble with remarks like this which seem to justify his actions based on the human condition. You have to squint pretty hard to not see the difference between his alleged crimes and your average person.
Why do I give more credit to a witness that has never been found to have lied than a witness who has been busted lying multiple times? Did you really ask that question?
It seems, despite actual evidence, that you really want to believe your hero wasn't a pedophile.
I'm giving them equal credit. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. It's he said she said. According to what you guys are typing, she is also a Jane Doe. Why wouldn't she just come out and say she had sex with Rose?
I'm 51, this guy wasn't even part of my childhood. He was already over the hill when I was a kid. I don't own his cards. I never watched him play a single game. He is just someone that I saw on TV associated with baseball as a kid. I'm just surprised at how vehemently you guys go after guys who have been accused of stuff like this on this board.
I did hear that at various times that he sold memorabilia to memorabilia dealers. Memorabilia that may or may not have been legit. Like, I heard that he sold the same ball or bat or mitt multiple times to different people claiming it was a specific piece of gear from a specific game, or something. Maybe that's where the hate comes from? I can understand the hate if he burned you guys.
wasn't priscilla 14 when she started dating the king? this didn't deride his career accomplishments did it? not saying its ok, but both did the same thing maybe (the rose girl isn't 100% solid to me but for arguments sake lets say it is) and boy are they looked at much differently by some.
Comments
There’s the portion of the Dowd Report that was made public as it pertains to gambling:
https://www.thedowdreport.com/report.pdf
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Rose was my favorite player growing up. When I read about the underage girls and heard what Vincent had to say on that subject I stopped being a fan. I could have looked the other way on gambling - deserved a ban from baseball but not the HOF. But throw in what he did with minors and happy to have him on the outside looking in.
It's really not hard to find credible sources on it. https://www.phillymag.com/news/2024/10/01/pete-rose-death-legacy-gambling/
What exactly is a credible source? An article from 2024 isn't a credible source.
Even newspaper articles from the time are 2nd or 3rd hand information. Even the investigation report is 2nd hand information. I don't know what rose has to say about any of this. I have no idea who the girl or girls are. Were there witnesses?
In a rape case there are only 2 credible sources. The two people involved in the sex. Unless there were witnesses. Any of those people can be lying.
Years after this, Pete Rose sued Dowd for defamation after Dowd called him a statutory rapist on a radio show as he was detailing more of what he’d uncovered for his report.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208447/woman-accuses-pete-rose-statutory-rape
“Rose acknowledged he had a sexual relationship with the woman in court documents made public Monday, but he said his information and belief was that it started when she was 16. He was 34, married and the father of two children in 1975, when he says he began having sex with the woman, referred to in the filing as "Jane Doe." Rose said he does not recall how long the relationship lasted.
The woman's account does not raise the prospect of a criminal charge for Rose, as it is well past Ohio's statute of limitations. She said they also had sex outside of Ohio when she was 16 or younger, but didn't specify the states, and Rose said their sexual relationship was confined to Ohio. In some states, such as Florida, the legal age of consent is 18.”
Once this was made public, Pete Rose decided to dismiss the charges (with prejudice) when that specific girl showed up and verified Dowd’s story via sworn statement and displayed a willingness to testify.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21777131/pete-rose-defamation-suit-john-dowd-dismissed-agreement-reached
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@CardGeek
There’s a starting point of reading material.
I’m happy to discuss further but PMs might be better.
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Where can you look it up:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/baseball-legend-pete-rose-accused-sex-minor-1970s-faces-tainted-n788551
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749481-pete-rose-drops-defamation-suit-against-john-dowd-over-statutory-rape-claims
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2024/10/01/pete-rose-death-legacy-gambling/
From what you wrote, It sounds like the age of consent in Ohio may have been 16 at the time.
14 > 16
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The age of consent in Ohio at the time was 16. The woman in question testified that she had sex with Rose starting when she was 14, and also that she had sex with him outside of the state of Ohio, but no states were provided.
Why was this stuff about underage girls part of this investigation? Look no further than Michael Bertolini.
I don't know about Ohio. I know that some states in the US do have, or did have, lower ages of consent. Age of consent is not set by the federal government. It's set by state law.
This.
Those who believe that Rose didn't have sex with any underage girls must be very young, under 40 are did keep up with this stuff when it was happening.
It also became fairly evident during the course of Dowd's investigation that Rose also bet against the Reds while managing them, too, which is another reason why Rose agreed to being placed on the ineligible lost because Dowd stopped investigating him as a condition of that agreement.
At the very least, it was also a known fact among bookmakers that Rose would not bet on the Reds if Soto or Gullickson were pitching as he did not have any confidence in those two pitchers while managing the team.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Ironic thing is that Rose stayed way more famous (infamous?) and probably made a lot more money as a result of being banned while he was alive than if he'd been inducted. He was able to create this entire industry around his lies, coverup and outrage than if he was just a regular inductee.
He was not a good guy at all (in probably any way), but a great player. As a fan it would be cool to see him inducted. If I was an MLB/HoF person there's no way I'd ever let him in though.
He admitted he's a child rapist? I dont believe it.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
What do you think admitting to a "relationship" with an underage girl means?
Better ask Elon
“Rose acknowledged he had a sexual relationship with the woman in court documents made public Monday, but he said his information and belief was that it started when she was 16. He was 34, married and the father of two children in 1975, when he says he began having sex with the woman, referred to in the filing as "Jane Doe." Rose said he does not recall how long the relationship lasted.”
She has stated on the record that she was 14 when the affair started; he says he thought she was 16.
Now, I really don’t see any difference between the two ages though clearly the law does; I think it’s disgusting either way.
What we know is certain is that he was a 34 year old married father of two at the time of the affair and it was with a girl who was somewhere between an eighth grader and a high school sophomore.
🤮
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I completely agree.
I didn't read his book, but he admitted to betting on baseball, and games he was involved in.
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It wasn't just about his betting on baseball.
It was pretty common knowledge Pete liked young "hardbodied" women and wasn't concerned about their age.
Pete's gambling problems were also well known.
The Dowd investigation found out a LOT more than Pete wanted revealed. Especially the underage girl statutory rape allegations. Pete did have a long time relationship with a girl that possibly began when she was 14. She loved Pete and won't comment as far as I have seen.
Pete agreed to the ban if MLB agreed not to publish those findings.
It's amazing how clueless some of the people here are.
...> @JoeBanzai said:
"Buh Buh Buh I have Pete Rose Cards and want them to go up in value to sell or needs that oh so sweet dopamine hit"
What is amazing is that if an old white guy steals some Baseball Cards at a show the dealers attitude here is "string 'em up" however commit vile disgusting crimes against baseball and children as old white guy Pete Rose did and it's all great.. Buh Buh Buh he had 4191 hits and destroyed Ray Fosse's livelihood for no frickin' reason so no worries...right
BTW factoring his life as a whole in the ledger, Rose may have harmed the Game as much as any player or manager ever has.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
He was a VERY, VERY sick man who NEVER accepted responsibility for his actions. Possibly the most arrogant piece of $hit in history.
Let everyone pile on....geez! No one is a saint...if so, cast the first stone.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
The more visceral reactions are indicative of a conversation worth having I think.
His betting angle by deletetion reminds me of a horse racing betting angle. Sometimes it is just as important to know who not to bet in a given situation. As it is who is a capable bet. Who is "out for the air" as far as horse racing goes.
I'm 50 and I've never heard this much hate for Pete Rose. Never heard anything about young girls till yesterday.
If they were in Ohio and she was 16 she wasn't underage though. It's kinda interesting how some of you guys do consider her underage even though she was legal if she was 16. What age do you think is acceptable? 18 is also just a number set by the state. Would you have been happier if he had married the 16 year old? Do you think that would have ended well? Maybe her mom wanted the divorce money. They do say, "The biggest pimp on planet mf'in earth is her momma,"
I believe, without a doubt, that the Rose fans are setting the bar too low in hoping for HOF enshrinement. They should be pushing for Elonald to decree a change in the names of Cincinnati and Philadelphia to Rose, Ohio and Rose, Pennsylvania, then Montreal, Quebec to Pierre, Quebec, then Cooperstown to Rosetown, New York, and Churchill Downs to Charlie Hustle's Place.
Weird pivot.
"Pile on".........no, the post is about Pete Rose and if he has a chance to be in the HOF.
Some point to his baseball career.
Others counter with the betting on baseball and the messing with children is relevant because he agreed to the lifetime ban to keep that information covered up.
Baseball's rule; bet on baseball and you will not be allowed to participate in the sport and will not be inducted in the HOF.
Life's lesson: Don't step in the poopie while wearing your bunny slippers.
Always in the market for game used kinesiology tape and smelly socks.
People are piling on; that is not necessary. Hopefully...he will enter the HOF where he belong for his onfield accomplishments.
The baseball HOF has a character clause, so all of this stuff is relevant to his electability. It might not be appropriate for discussion about a different sport’s HOF, but it’s part of the process for baseball so it’s all fair game.
Jim
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
To me this thread shows exactly why no commissioner will reinstate. No news is harmless. Action will lead to criticism and bad press for baseball - possibly a damaging documentary in response. Downside outweighs the upside of a posthumous induction for MLB.
She wasn't 16. She was 14, as she stated on the record.
But I'm sure the guy who lied about betting on baseball and lied about having an affair is TOTALLY telling the truth about her age. Lol.
Yep a fine tooth comb will be pulled out and so too the truth. Some like in this thread will never believe it of course, but his name will be forever tarnished even worse than it s now and a new generation will learn all about how despicable he was.
Those of you who have his cards or other sundry memorabilia IMHO huge potential downside if the case is re-opened. No news is good news and or Silence is golden applies. But sure shoot yourself in the foot if you like, I'll be the one ROTFLMFAO.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I understand she is saying she was 14 after the fact. Why do you give her testimony more weight than his? Why is she even coming forward? Who knows what the truth is. Breaking news: Women and girls can lie too. The person who is giving testimony may not even be the girl he was with. This testimony was in 1988 or something? What if some woman shows up and says she is going to testify against Rose unless he signs? Do you think Rose at that point tries to fight it?
Rose has been pretty popular my entire life. I'm surprised I've never heard any of this till yesterday. I still hear about OJ like every week. It seems like Rose is more guilty now than he ever has been, in your eyes.
It seems like you guys really want to believe that Rose likes 14 year olds.
Rose isn’t a saint…but no one on here including myself is either.
Interestingly, if you read the Dowd Report wiki article. It doesn't say anything about any of this underage girl stuff. I would think that would be bigger news than betting on baseball games.
I have watched enough To Catch a Predator episodes to know that every single time a pedophile gets caught they always say this was the first time and that they did not know she was underage. Every single time.
So for all you guys in here that choose to believe a well-known habitual liar like Pete Rose, then I guess there really is nothing that will change your mind.
This whole subject kind of reminds me of the early 2000's where people did not want to believe their heroes were taking steroids. No matter how much evidence was shown they drew there line and were sticking with their hero.
Now why do you want to pile on the Clippers?!???
Always in the market for game used kinesiology tape and smelly socks.
Why do I give more credit to a witness that has never been found to have lied than a witness who has been busted lying multiple times? Did you really ask that question?
Your other what-if's and straw men are entirely unconvincing. I'm sorry it's taking you time to process news most of us learned long ago.
It seems, despite actual evidence, that you really want to believe your hero wasn't a pedophile.
I mean, I can without a doubt say I'm a saint when it comes to pedophilia. You can't?
Again, you've been pointed to numerous news stories and articles about it.
It's not "interesting" and I'm not sure what the disconnect is here.
Most of these things were kept out of the public report because Rose agreed to the lifetime ban to end the investigation and put a stop to a formal finding.
Many years later Dowd made some comments in the media about some of the findings which were not made public in his report. Specifically, he referenced Rose's relationship with a minor in the past and he referenced Michael Bertolini's testimony about Rose's frequent relations with young girls.
Rose decided to sue Dowd for defamation... Which was very stupid. In his defense Dowd introduced this other evidence, Bertolini testified, and the woman, known as Jane Doe, came forward with sworn testimony about details of her relationship with Rose which had not previously been made public.
Again, Rose had to back down.
So. The reason it's not either interesting, or surprising, that this information is not in the Dowd report on wiki is because it was not released in the Dowd report.
For the record, I found your "age is just a number" argument to be a bit off putting.
I have trouble with remarks like this which seem to justify his actions based on the human condition. You have to squint pretty hard to not see the difference between his alleged crimes and your average person.
I'm giving them equal credit. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. It's he said she said. According to what you guys are typing, she is also a Jane Doe. Why wouldn't she just come out and say she had sex with Rose?
I'm 51, this guy wasn't even part of my childhood. He was already over the hill when I was a kid. I don't own his cards. I never watched him play a single game. He is just someone that I saw on TV associated with baseball as a kid. I'm just surprised at how vehemently you guys go after guys who have been accused of stuff like this on this board.
I did hear that at various times that he sold memorabilia to memorabilia dealers. Memorabilia that may or may not have been legit. Like, I heard that he sold the same ball or bat or mitt multiple times to different people claiming it was a specific piece of gear from a specific game, or something. Maybe that's where the hate comes from? I can understand the hate if he burned you guys.
wasn't priscilla 14 when she started dating the king? this didn't deride his career accomplishments did it? not saying its ok, but both did the same thing maybe (the rose girl isn't 100% solid to me but for arguments sake lets say it is) and boy are they looked at much differently by some.