Worth a crackout and another shot? Cleaned Seated Half.
opportunity
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A friend of mine sent me this pic today, and asked my opinion as to whether I thought it was worth another shot. I told them it seems to be cleaned, but doesn't necessarily look abrasive. Perhaps a soap and water thumb rub. What does the forum think? This is an IMPORTANT coin, for those who don't know!
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Worth a crackout and another shot? Cleaned Seated Half.
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Comments
He could dirty it up
I would not
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Fantastic example of the variety, but unfortunately, the color looks off and it looks to be cleaned. I just don't see it straight grading.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1847-6-50c/6258
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Negative
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https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
That scratch or graffiti under the UNITED could be another reason to detail grade.
Does a soap and water thumb rub do anything?
I can't see the cleaning but I am looklng at it on my computer moniter. I have recently learned my smart phone has better resolution so maybe it is obvious on that?
I do not see a straight grade. There looks to be a reverse scratch the extends from the E in UNITED to edge of the wing.
I see a 7070 coin here and it would look good serving that purpose
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A great coin for an album set.
Grader come and go. It might be able to get a grade but not sure how many times you need to try.
I was thinking the same thing, Ironically, if the coin were dirty, the scratch might go away (largely) as well. But I don't see the coin getting past being cleaned, and if it does, the scratch could be lurking as a different reason to get a details grade since they only list one, and usually it's just the most egregious.
I voted unlikely to ever grade but it is a very significant coin in the series.
Looks like a 1847/6 50C to me. I would send it to attributed. It's a Major Variety, so there's no attribution fee, just the beholder and shipping fees.
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Between the cleaning and the reverse scratch to the left of the eagle’s left-facing wing, I think the chances of a straight grade are extremely slim.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm not one to say never, but IMO the chances are Slim and none ... and Slim left town quite some time ago on that girl.
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It depends on the price. Does the seller understand what it is? It could be a whale of a cherry pick if they don't.
I see too many hairlines that could stop it from straight grading.
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The hairlines won't ever be missed or go away. It would be in an AU details holder so not the end of the world.
I doubt that it will ever straight grade.
I agree it is slim, but it is not impossible. Again grader change all the times. Below are the two most famous changed from details to grade. If you do some searches you might find more examples.
The last example I gave is from graffiti to grade. If that can be done why cleaned can't change to grade? In fact both examples are changed from damaged to grade
NGC might straight grade it.
Over times I saw some coin's grade changed from details to grade but those coins are not rare so the price did not change in 6 figures so I did not save a photo of the previous grade, therefor I can't provide a photo for before and after (once the grade change you can't find the old grade anymore from PCGS unless you save a photo).
If you talk to many different collectors I am sure you will find more examples than you thought. Some collectors submit same coin for 20 times until he/she get a better grade or run out the money to submit.
He could dirty it up> @jt88 said:
That's a little different. Both are really all details coins. For the gold Buffalo, it's unique so it really doesn't matter. For the stamped coin, they are treating it as a token. Neither condition would apply to the OP's coin where they would have to decide that it is market acceptable. It's not impossible, but a very different situation
Great and rare half dollar. While I don't think it will straight grade at PCGS, you may wish to try NGC or ANACS.
Even if you PCGS grade the coin, I would have to think a verified XF/AU details 47/46 half in a holder will allow the most money on its sale.
I dunno. I have this straight graded coin with really bad scratches on the shield in my Type set. I like the coin a lot and when you first look at it you don’t notice the shield scratches, but I wonder how/why the graders gave it a pass. I like how it looks and it goes well with my other seated half dollars and I also liked how I got a nice discount on it because of the scratches, but it puzzles me when I see others that the graders gave a details grade that aren’t really worse than mine.
Mr_Spud
Perhaps if you can have the graders view from a perspective of extreme rarity (requesting variety attribution), it may have a chance to straight grade.
Otherwise unlikely.
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There is too much rubbing on the right obverse field, and the straight line scratch, which might be from a staple, beside the eagle's left wing might be enough on its own to preclude a straight grade.
Both choices and all responses tend to agree with "cleaned" but my experience tells me that at some point it may straight grade.
Throw it in a sunny windowsill for a few years, tone down that scratch. The coin will probably look a little better, but I don't think it will ever straight grade.
If not already in a details holder and attributed... I would send it in for this alone.
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Details coins can be graded with grade if you try to submit it couple times. It is a proven fact no need to deny or argue about it. Again grader changes so as grades. You don't know it that's because you don't have enough information. I give two more examples to show it.
Maybe later it will be much more difficult once they use AI to grade because AI can remember all the previous graded coins. It will be very hard to change grade unless human intervention.
Using a rare variety in 7070 type set can make the set stand out...
I'm using the Churchill Crown DDR as my coin for a slot in the GB Crown Registry Type Set and I am still trying to get the 1746 LIMA Half Crown overdate as an acceptable coin for the Half Crown Type Set which really should be an issue given the surviving population.
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No one is arguing that a details coin CAN'T be straight graded later. You're providing individual examples, which is actually counter to your point. If we're looking at individual coins, then whether or not we think they will go from details to straight grade is assessed on a per-coin basis. The replies here are consistently pointing to qualities the OP's coin has that will make it very unlikely to ever receive a non-details grade. If people here thought the coin to be right on the cusp, the responses wouldn't be so unequivocal.
if a filed rims and a graffiti coin can be changed to grade I really don't see why a cleaned coin can't. In fact cleaned is PCGS's invitation to resubmit because cleaned is least problem in all problem coins.
people here pointed out scratched, I am sure PCGS see that too but why PCGS did not label it as scratched? My interpretation is that PCGS did not think that is a issue or less than cleaned.
We are here is not talking about UNC. for a almost 200 years old coin some scratches is very normal. PCGS can grade it xf45 or AU50 or whatever grade.
I was able to acquire some more pics.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
filed rims and graffiti is a fact but cleaned is subjective judgement, if a fact can be changed I don't see why a subjective opinion can't be changed.
The collector said both coins are in similar tone but one get grade while another not. He said it is based on grader's mood. My interpretation of his statement is that he toned both coins so if they can be graded both should be graded.
Anecdotal evidence of a couple coins changing from a details to straight grade is not proof that it'll happen to this coin. There are also examples of coins, even CAC'd examples, that when cracked and tried for a better grade have come back details.
This coin, albeit a rarity, just seems too bright/wispy to straight grade. Let it tone in a flip in sunlight or something like that, it needs some more skin.
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...> @Mr_Spud said:
I have one as well. The toning hides two hits to Liberty's neck and two large hits to the reverse shield. I'll have to point that out when it comes time to sell the coin.
PCGS VF35
The graffiti was already addressed above. They recategorized the coin completely. They didn’t pretend the stamped letters aren’t there, they just decided to describe it differently. NGC gives details grades to chopmark coins. PCGS straight grades them. Same thing.
We can’t see the filed rim, so there’s no telling what happened. Maybe there was a small rim bruise and they called it filing at first. As I said before, there are coins with liner issues, and yes, sometimes they’ll straight grade and other times they won’t. The resounding opinion here is that the OP’s coin is not on the line.
Because they labeled it cleaned. They don’t label two kinds of damage. Maybe they think the cleaning is more severe. Maybe they think the cleaning stands out more and calling the coin scratched would call more into question because “why didn’t they call it cleaned?” Maybe they saw the cleaning fast enough that they didn’t bother looking for other damage. Lots of maybes, but the coin has clear damage that PCGS noted, and at least one more thing they could note if they made a practice of listing all issues or they opted to not mention the cleaning. Just because other coins maybe be on a line that results in inconsistency doesn’t mean this particular coin is going to straight grade as if all damage is fleeting. By your logic, is there any amount of damage a coin could have that would render it permanently and always a details coin?
i was able to view this coin on my smartphone. i will say it is much easier to see the cloudy fields from a cleaning . I can only guess that the addition of some scratches must have been the straw that broke the camels back. However, anyone who is interested enough should take a tour through say the 1855-s Seated Quarters and Halves in Great Collections archives. You may find what consitutes a straight grade can be a real eye opener. James
Put it in a Wayte-Raymond or Mehrig holder for some years and try again.