Will this coin CAC? FUN Show Coin #2 **RESULT POSTED 2/5/25**
P0CKETCHANGE
Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
==RESULT POSTED IN COMMENT==
Dropped off 20 coins at FUN for CAC Stickering. Will take a few weeks for results; in the meantime thought it'd be fun to crowdsource guesses. Take a stab and I'll update the post when the coin is back. Include your reasoning, if you care to.
(Here's the link to the Coin #1 thread, if you missed that one.)
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Will this coin CAC? FUN Show Coin #2 **RESULT POSTED 2/5/25**
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
0
Comments
I believe this coin won't CAC. Although the original color is rather pleasing, the huge cuts on the neck and face derive it from a CAC Sticker. That's just MY opinion.
My vote does not count!
what makes you think your vote isint worth anything? it is
My vote would be not to submit it, even if it looked like a lock for a green sticker. Flame away!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Hits on her neck and the corrosion spot inside the D on the reverse exclude this coin from CAC IMO. Plus the majority of the reverse’s surface looks corroded with a black substance.
No longer an option! Already in CAC's hands.
What do you think the result will be, Mark? No flaming from me for a guess in any direction.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
My guess is no - I wish I felt differently.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The coin looks to have fantastic luster, and the marks seem appropriate for the grade. But if the photo accurately depicts the haze then I vote no. I guess I'm being a real Debbie Downer as I've opined no on both so far.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Might catch the dreaded PVC hit on this one due to the haze.
Coin Photographer.
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My thoughts exactly
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I think, unfortunately, no… I’m in agreement that the coin hung out too long in an inappropriate home…
Just for learning, is it the area by the 4 that you are referring, or the whole coin in general. I thought that light champagne/rose/rust colored toning was the initial stage of toning, or something like that.
I was referring to the whole coin in general.
Coin Photographer.
No for the hits and haze. Color is just fine.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
It's odd that they would penalize haze, yet outright corrosion is often rewarded for its "crustiness."
Where have you seen corrosion rewarded?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Crack it, acetone bath and submit to CACG. Just kidding.
I think the haze is an issue - particularly liberty’s hair and the center of the eagle.
I like the coin… not all coins need stickers and this is one that does not need a sticker.
The Law of Diminishing Returns applies here.
The most probable outcome is no sticker…
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Here and there. Sorry, but I'm not going to show lots of photos and risk upsetting people here, but my CAC Hall of Shame has about 20 examples. Obviously, it reflects my taste in coins which differ from JA and CAC. Here's one example, and I hope it doesn't offend someone here.
CAC must have loved the overall toning and ignored the ugly corrosion across Ms. Liberty and the shield. I consider it a "C" coin for this corrosion, but the toning is nice.
I hope no one's ever got banned from submitting to cac yet? Just wondering 🤔
I like the originality but I went green CAC just to be a contrarian.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Same
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
@TomB
Recall when Don Willis was moderating this forum? Things were different.
I’m also in the no-sticker camp. The haze looks dicey to me.
I can see a bean on this one.
I don't see any corrosion there - just grime from circulation or a counting table
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
It isn't just dirt or grime. I see this etching and pitting often under "Black crud" on PVC damaged coins.
@Barberian I am with @hummingbird_coins that looks like grime. Type of material that will come off with acetone and one swipe of the Q-Tip. I just carefully touched up a nice collection of early dollars and they all straight graded, not a hint of corrosion seen underneath.
OP I believe CAC is not a fan of coins that exhibit significant haze.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Great! Your coins were apparently different from this one and others in my collection and elsewhere that I've looked at extensively. That etching and pitting from associated "black crud" is definitely NOT going to be wiped away. You may get some black crud off this coin, but the underlying surfaces will be etched. I wish it could as I own several coins with that etched and pitted look.
RESULT POSTED IN THIS COMMENT
The final forum tally:
Result: ❌ Did not pass
Reason: PVC
This turned into an excellent learning opportunity for me, as not only did I think it would sticker, but I thought the chances were strong. Forum consensus overwhelmingly disagreed, and were proven correct with the dreaded PVC sticker. Why did I send this coin in? One, I've seen old holder Peace dollars with seemingly similar characteristics (see examples below). Two, I evidently had no idea how to evaluate PVC or distinguish it from benign haze. Turns out I've been using the wrong lighting. I got two other "PVC" rejections on Peace Dollars in this submission, and three green beans, and being able to compare and contrast them all with that information was well worth the submission fees—the chances that I buy a similar coin in the future is much, much lower now.
Here are some of the examples that are CAC-approved that I had interpreted as being similar to my coin:
@FlyingAl @pursuitofliberty
(note: I'll be sharing results for all 5 posts from this submission over the coming days—I don't want to crowd out other people's threads on the front page by updating them all at once)
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
@P0CKETCHANGE - the difference I see in your coin and the other four is the "depth" of tone. The PVC haze is very light and sits on the surface of the coin in a filmy way, where the other four show deep tone that appears to be very strongly present.
Coin Photographer.
In most cases you can send it in to PCGS for restoration and then CAC will sticker it.
http://ProofCollection.Net
That's a great observation. I actually own the top left example (1924 MS63), and being able to compare the two in hand has been very useful, and it is as you described.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Great post, know I learned something. Maybe coin in hand might have been easier to pick up the PVC haze, but from photo I wouldn't have guessed that was the issue. Several of the No's were concerned with hits to the neck that would have been my only issue. But now will look out for types of haze if buying online, even if slabbed. Appears easily fixable but cost of conservation and losing the old Rattler is a bummer.
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PERFECT description of the issue when PVC can present as tone!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Good informative summary Eric - appreciate the post! But, this was one time I shouldn’t have been a contrarian.
Ken
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Do you feel the haze is more important an actual active spot like below the post of N in UNUM on the reverse or the possible PVC pits or corrosion on the obverse below the RV of TRVST near the edge?
I see what you are saying. Taking a 2nd look at the larger photo above, the obverse to the right & top of the 4 in date and that area on the reverse just above Dollar appear slightly green and different then the general haze/toning on both sides. These do look suspect and the photo in holder doesn't reflect as much.
@P0CKETCHANGE what was the "wrong" lighting and what is the "right" lighting?
I don't think the spots are as much of a concern given they don't look like PVC.
Coin Photographer.
Seems to be a large swath across both sides of the coin, including the area over the eagle that’s showing a green color on the slab image.
Overhead (ceiling) light and soft incandescent seemed to mask the PVC, but it became very apparent once I examined the coins in bright, indirect sunlight.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The OP reverse slab picture is a little interesting in the similarity to the picture I had/have in a PVC thread.
If it helps: Should be able to see and tell the PVC by tilting the coin under the light but perhaps beyond normal viewing and including maybe going almost up on edge.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
BINGO!
How many days from CAC receiving the coins till you got the results did it take?
It was a show drop off. I handed them over on Jan 11th at FUN, they marked them "received" in NJ on Jan 15th, and the results posted on Jan 27th (although I did not look at them, as I prefer a surprise reveal with the coins in-hand). The folks in NJ work quickly and are always wonderful to deal with.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
It was informative to revisit your old thread, thanks for mentioning it. Here's the link in case anyone else was curious: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1077719/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself-i-am-pvc-update-completed
Nothing is as expensive as free money.