Please Allow Me To Introduce Myself - I Am PVC - Update Completed

lilolme

So in my old box of stuff I found this package Silver Eagle type set. It is another gimmick cleaned and sometimes polished coins in a cardboard card / holder for display. This one was unopened for decades. It had a wrapping around the card / holder and this was in another heavier vinyl pouch. Problem was/is they both contain PVC. Yes, a lot of PVC on the coins. So I thought I would try to take some pictures and show what it can look like. Once again I am not a photographer not even an amateur. Just click and shoot.

First the package as it was. The pouch and the card / holder still sealed with the wrapper. The backside had a piece of cardboard covering or over the coins while the front side the coins were in direct contact with the wrapper as shown. Both the pouch and the wrapper were sticky when trying to remove them.
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After cutting and removing the sealed wrapper there were rings on it where the coins were. Here is a picture of the front and backside after the wrapper was removed. You can already see that this is not good. One strange thing is they put an 1876 CC quarter in it.
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So now I am trying to take closer pictures to show the PVC. Remember PVC is not always green. It can start as a thin film that is nearly invisible unless tilted at an angle. Then can be a brown film or get to be a thicker haze. Then of course the green (or blue'ish) film or blobs that are more often thought of. There is some of everything here so it should give a good example of what it can look like.

While the coins are in a cardboard holder which can cause some toning most of what you see here on the front side is the PVC. I only took pictures of the Halves and a two Dollars. Took the pictures at a couple of different angles to try and catch the look.
First the front side that had the wrapper in direct contact with the coins.
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And the back side that had a piece of cardboard over the coins. There is a noticeable difference in the stuff on the coins but some still not good.
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Now I guess I will see how well it comes off. Not sure when I will get around to that but it is on the casual to do list.

gumby1234

Yuck

PerryHall

Would it be possible to get a few more pics?

P0CKETCHANGE

Informative post, thanks for sharing. I (luckily) don’t have much experience with PVC damage so it’s helpful to see how it can present itself differently on various coins. Hope the CC quarter isn’t too bad.

PerryHall

When it comes to PVC, acetone is your friend. Use it outside or in a very well ventilate space away from any sparks and be sure to rinse well with fresh acetone.

ricko

I agree with @PerryHall ... Acetone bath (100%), and change it several times. Be sure to use a glass container, and cover it or the acetone will quickly evaporate. Agitate the coins every day or two.... before changing the acetone. Cheers, RickO

Oldhoopster

It isn't actually PVC. It's the phthalate plastisizer which is used to make the PVC soft and pliable that leaches out of the plastic. The plasticizer can then react with moisture/humidity forming Hydrochloric Acid as a byproduct. HCl and coins are never a good mix

lilolme

@Oldhoopster said:
It isn't actually PVC. It's the phthalate plastisizer which is used to make the PVC soft and pliable that leaches out of the plastic. The plasticizer can then react with moisture/humidity forming Hydrochloric Acid as a byproduct. HCl and coins are never a good mix

A friend who was a materials person (retired) used the term outgassing or outgas to describe what was going on. This was not related to coins but rather other stuff on the job and the PVC and protecting against it. This is why when I see signs of PVC I think it could be coving the entire surface if you see it or not.

Oldhoopster

@lilolme said:

@Oldhoopster said:
It isn't actually PVC. It's the phthalate plastisizer which is used to make the PVC soft and pliable that leaches out of the plastic. The plasticizer can then react with moisture/humidity forming Hydrochloric Acid as a byproduct. HCl and coins are never a good mix

A friend who was a materials person (retired) used the term outgassing or outgas to describe what was going on. This was not related to coins but rather other stuff on the job and the PVC and protecting against it. This is why when I see signs of PVC I think it could be coving the entire surface if you see it or not.

I did some research a little while ago and it appears that out gassing of the phthalates is low, so the primary transfer mechanism is physical contact.

I'm a materials engineer as well, but organics is a weakness (it was always a good idea to buy lunch for the organic chemists when I was at the R&D facility. Then would answer my questions). I believe my info is accurate but am always willing to hear from the chemists on here

ms71

Only the "holder" arrangement would have been a commercial product; i.e., this wouldn't have been sold as a complete set I'd guess. The coins are (were) far too nice to have been sold by the shysters typically peddling such junk. Some unknowing collector filled it with nice coins in order to have a set he could be proud of. A substantial "tuition" payment,

Connecticoin

The 76-CC Quarter is worth $100 or so more than a common date, so curious they used that.

lilolme

@ms71 said:
Only the "holder" arrangement would have been a commercial product; i.e., this wouldn't have been sold as a complete set I'd guess. The coins are (were) far too nice to have been sold by the shysters typically peddling such junk. Some unknowing collector filled it with nice coins in order to have a set he could be proud of. A substantial "tuition" payment,

I think it is/was from The Columbia Mint (would need to get it out and double check). That is why I described it as silver eagle type set (I see on the holder picture they used coin collection) and gimmick. But it did come all together and with a nice box and a few small pages giving some information on each coin.

lilolme

@Connecticoin said:
The 76-CC Quarter is worth $100 or so more than a common date, so curious they used that.

Just what I wondered when I saw cc and before looking at anything else.

lilolme

@Oldhoopster said:

@lilolme said:

@Oldhoopster said:
It isn't actually PVC. It's the phthalate plastisizer which is used to make the PVC soft and pliable that leaches out of the plastic. The plasticizer can then react with moisture/humidity forming Hydrochloric Acid as a byproduct. HCl and coins are never a good mix

A friend who was a materials person (retired) used the term outgassing or outgas to describe what was going on. This was not related to coins but rather other stuff on the job and the PVC and protecting against it. This is why when I see signs of PVC I think it could be coving the entire surface if you see it or not.

I did some research a little while ago and it appears that out gassing of the phthalates is low, so the primary transfer mechanism is physical contact.

I'm a materials engineer as well, but organics is a weakness (it was always a good idea to buy lunch for the organic chemists when I was at the R&D facility. Then would answer my questions). I believe my info is accurate but am always willing to hear from the chemists on here

Sounds good as I don't know. At least maybe it won't cover a coin when one sees some. However, might be safe to assume that it did and take care as if it did. That is basically what we did and kept it away from some raw materials but maybe he was just extra cautious due to not knowing how much it could do.

alaura22

Home depot for a gallon of acetone.............

Namvet69

Yup, acetone is inexpensive, change it often, good luck. Peace Roy

kaz

Thanks for the informative thread, and multiple photos showing how PVC can present itself.

lilolme

So I did an initial clean up on aisle Kennedy. This one had a lot of stuff on it and including the obverse that was covered with the cardboard and not in contact with the plastic. The green blobs were still soft and came off easily. The surface haze and gunky was a little more stubborn. There are still some light 'water' spots on the obverse (particularly by the date which is not lit up well unfortunately) but might soak out. On the reverse there appears to be something around the bottom eagle feathers and similarly in other lower areas. Checking with a loop there is nothing there so just some my poor photo skills and lighting. Now the coin itself is kind of a question but that has nothing to do with the PVC or clean up but what was used initially.

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Previous Photos from above:
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kaz

I'm assuming you used acetone? Big improvement!

Oldhoopster

As mentioned earlier, when the PVC plasticizer leaches onto the coin, it can react with moisture and form HCl. So it's not unusual to find some acid damage under the residue. Looks like you made out with minimal damage.

It looks like your coins have a lot of residue, so its important to change the acetone regularly or do quick rinse a second time in clean solvent. The contaminants suspended in the acetone can redeposit back on the coin and may show up as a problem in the future.

Whenever I get a new raw coin, I always give it a quick acetone rinse, even if I don't see any residue. You never know how it's been stored

lilolme

@Oldhoopster

Yes on the info and suggestions. I have not soaked the coin yet. I remove as much as possible and then soak. That way it cuts down on what you mentioned about clean solvent. I was curious after so much time if anything had hardened but it had not. If any green blob and they look glass like, then typically they are hard and don't come off. If they did. then would probably be a spot there. Some of the surface stuff can get tougher as well. Not sure what causes them to get hard as these were in the package for decades but still soft. Will be interesting to see what happens with the rest of them.

NateSr007

Awesome and informative post. I was aware of the issues with PVC, but this helps clarify it. Post photos of the restoration process for us all to see the stages.

lilolme

Did the initial clean up on all of them. Did not encounter any that had damage or any with what I will call hardened PVC. Unfortunately (or fortunately if thinking about PVC on coins might as well not be good ones) most of the coins are cleaned and some polished but that is what I expected as stated in the OP for these type of things. They are now in for an acetone soak.

jesbroken

For everyone's benefit, explain the "cleaning" steps you took before the acetone soak. Thank you,
Jim

lilolme

@jesbroken said:
For everyone's benefit, explain the "cleaning" steps you took before the acetone soak. Thank you,
Jim

I will pass on this. I am far from fully knowledgeable on this and just would not want anything to go wrong with something I threw out there.
PS - I will say I did Not dip any of these coins. Dip in this case being more traditional term of acidic dip like eZest.

Some points are what it can look like. That even after extended periods of time it can still be 'soft' (my term) and not have damaged the coin. But that it can turn 'hard' (my term) and can etch into the coin or as Oldhoopster stated acid damage. I don't know what causes the differences but would think the sooner one deals with it the better. Perhaps professional restoration like pcgs is advisable in some/many cases.

lilolme

Completed the soak and back in the holder. Still mostly cleaned and/or polished (not all) but looking much better. The obverse, which had the cardboard cover still has some tone color on many. I think I will find a place in the background to set them in place of the box inside a box.

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