There were no US half dollars when he was a Commanding General.
During the Revolutionary period, correct of course. More in the way of trivia---Washington was appointed "Lieutenant General and Commander in Chief of all the armies raised, or to be raised for the Service of the U. S" by Adams/Senate on July 7, 1798 (Quasi War). He never took the field though.
Ike was said to carry a pouch of "lucky coins" during WWII. Think I would pay extra for one of those!
When former First Lady Jackie Kennedy died, there was an auction where much of her personal effects were sold including about a half dozen Kennedy half dollars. It would be neat to own one in a slab with the Jackie Kennedy pedigree noted on the label.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I remember reading that when the Eliasberg coins were sold at auction, one lot had two rolls of 1883 No Cents nickels. Some dealer bought them and had each coin slabbed with the Eliasberg pedigree noted on the labels. He sold them off over a period of time and made a tidy little profit since the Eliasberg pedigree gave collectors a chance to buy a coin from his very famous and complete collection of US coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
I remember reading that when the Eliasberg coins were sold at auction, one lot had two rolls of 1883 No Cents nickels. Some dealer bought them and had each coin slabbed with the Eliasberg pedigree noted on the labels. He sold them off over a period of time and made a tidy little profit since the Eliasberg pedigree gave collectors a chance to buy a coin from his very famous and complete collection of US coins.
.
I remember this well, and thought about it as I posting this morning. IIRC they sold for about 2x to 3.5x the going rate for whatever grade they were at the time.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
To me, yes, a pedigree definitely adds value - but it's entirely dependent on the name, and it's never a flat percentage. However, that's partly because there are relatively few recognized names in the space that I'm interested in (chopmarked coins) and because the addition of a name helps to place a rare piece at a certain point in time when prices were much lower; when you're dealing with something like chopmarks that are more difficult to validate compared to a host coin or counterstamp, and which have only seen a spike in interest relatively recently, a good provenance adds a tangible value to a piece that could otherwise be suspect.
Then again, some chopmarked pieces are made more valuable by a provenance just because there aren't that many out there - relatively few major collectors, not that many auctions in the past that would promote chops in sales with detailed descriptions or plates.
@ChopmarkedTrades said:
To me, yes, a pedigree definitely adds value - but it's entirely dependent on the name, and it's never a flat percentage. However, that's partly because there are relatively few recognized names in the space (chopmarked coins) and because the addition of a name helps to place a rare piece at a certain point in time when prices were much lower; when you're dealing with something like chopmarks that are more difficult to validate and which have only seen a spike in interest relatively recently, that adds a tangible value to a piece that could otherwise be suspect.
Then again, some chopmarked pieces are made more valuable by a provenance just because there aren't that many out there - relatively few major collectors, not that many auctions in the past that would promote chops in sales with detailed descriptions or plates.
Also foreign coins a good Pedigree provides provenance on how it came over sometimes and adds important context.
This is pedigreed to the Sang Lin Collection which was an immigrant from Hong Kong who brought a treasure trove of Asian rarities with him. Helps coins like these where are Frequently faked or messed with
Here is the story, knowing his central role in the niche. I think it adds a lot. That said how others have said, it varies based on the needs of the coin, sale and collector
As others have mentioned, the name or event associated with the coin can be a huge determining factor in price. None of my friends know the names Eliasberg or Bass. Everyone knows Washington and Lincoln. A coin specifically associated with one of those former Presidents expands the number of "collectors" dramatically.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Chain provenance landmark condition census rarities command significant premiums. Such coins are foundational to the hobby and were selected and traded among the top classic numismatists of the days before the hobby transitioned from a rich man's playground to a popular one for just about anyone. A coin ultimately stands on its own merits, but Col. Green, Eliasverg, Bass, ... selected such meritorious coins. Post-1960 provenances, with no links to much earlier collections, are mostly just coins, some worth more attention through their own qualities ultimately.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
The Dexter specimen of the 1804 silver dollar also has a very small D punched into one of the clouds on the reverse.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That is superb and harkens back to an old tradition where Renaissance collectors would add their seals onto coins. This sestertius comes from the d'Este family from Modena, made in the 15th and 16th centuries, started byLionel D'Este (1407-1450). The countermark with the shield with the eagle was probably made under Alfonso II d'Este (1559-1597), before part of the collection was dispersed in the first half of the 17th century.
It's the oldest verifiable coin collection pedigree available and carries a premium:
But, there are some other exciting pedigrees. This being the US forum, here is a silver didrachm of Philip V which was owned by President John Quincy Adams and descendants, eventually sold to benefit the Massachusetts Historical Society:
Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
@SmEagle1795 That is incredible, thanks for sharing!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
If your think about it pedigree and provenance is really just about knowing the story about the history and the more pieces one has of said history it adds to the puzzle of any artifact. It is a major piece of the reason that old holders are sought after.
I was able to buy the Eliasberg J-300 1c pattern a few years ago. It is graded MS64 in an OGH and I thought it was very choice for the grade. I paid a little premium, but it was CACed and subsequently PhotoSealed.
I think the Eliasberg collection has one of the coolest stories for a famous collection.
Comments
During the Revolutionary period, correct of course. More in the way of trivia---Washington was appointed "Lieutenant General and Commander in Chief of all the armies raised, or to be raised for the Service of the U. S" by Adams/Senate on July 7, 1798 (Quasi War). He never took the field though.
Ike was said to carry a pouch of "lucky coins" during WWII. Think I would pay extra for one of those!
When former First Lady Jackie Kennedy died, there was an auction where much of her personal effects were sold including about a half dozen Kennedy half dollars. It would be neat to own one in a slab with the Jackie Kennedy pedigree noted on the label.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I remember reading that when the Eliasberg coins were sold at auction, one lot had two rolls of 1883 No Cents nickels. Some dealer bought them and had each coin slabbed with the Eliasberg pedigree noted on the labels. He sold them off over a period of time and made a tidy little profit since the Eliasberg pedigree gave collectors a chance to buy a coin from his very famous and complete collection of US coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
.
I remember this well, and thought about it as I posting this morning. IIRC they sold for about 2x to 3.5x the going rate for whatever grade they were at the time.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
To me, yes, a pedigree definitely adds value - but it's entirely dependent on the name, and it's never a flat percentage. However, that's partly because there are relatively few recognized names in the space that I'm interested in (chopmarked coins) and because the addition of a name helps to place a rare piece at a certain point in time when prices were much lower; when you're dealing with something like chopmarks that are more difficult to validate compared to a host coin or counterstamp, and which have only seen a spike in interest relatively recently, a good provenance adds a tangible value to a piece that could otherwise be suspect.
Then again, some chopmarked pieces are made more valuable by a provenance just because there aren't that many out there - relatively few major collectors, not that many auctions in the past that would promote chops in sales with detailed descriptions or plates.
Also foreign coins a good Pedigree provides provenance on how it came over sometimes and adds important context.
This is pedigreed to the Sang Lin Collection which was an immigrant from Hong Kong who brought a treasure trove of Asian rarities with him. Helps coins like these where are Frequently faked or messed with
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
For chopmarked coins I do understand since those could be faked much easier.
https://stage.stacksbowers.com/did-you-08022017/
Here is the story, knowing his central role in the niche. I think it adds a lot. That said how others have said, it varies based on the needs of the coin, sale and collector
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
As others have mentioned, the name or event associated with the coin can be a huge determining factor in price. None of my friends know the names Eliasberg or Bass. Everyone knows Washington and Lincoln. A coin specifically associated with one of those former Presidents expands the number of "collectors" dramatically.
I’d pay a slight premium for a cool provenance, but not much more.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Chain provenance landmark condition census rarities command significant premiums. Such coins are foundational to the hobby and were selected and traded among the top classic numismatists of the days before the hobby transitioned from a rich man's playground to a popular one for just about anyone. A coin ultimately stands on its own merits, but Col. Green, Eliasverg, Bass, ... selected such meritorious coins. Post-1960 provenances, with no links to much earlier collections, are mostly just coins, some worth more attention through their own qualities ultimately.
What about a pedigree tag found on the coin itself? Don't see these too often!
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1B9BRW/1795-capped-bust-right-eagle-bd-4-taraszka-4-rarity-5-13-leaves-ms-61-pcgs-cmq
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
The Dexter specimen of the 1804 silver dollar also has a very small D punched into one of the clouds on the reverse.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That is superb and harkens back to an old tradition where Renaissance collectors would add their seals onto coins. This sestertius comes from the d'Este family from Modena, made in the 15th and 16th centuries, started byLionel D'Este (1407-1450). The countermark with the shield with the eagle was probably made under Alfonso II d'Este (1559-1597), before part of the collection was dispersed in the first half of the 17th century.
It's the oldest verifiable coin collection pedigree available and carries a premium:
But, there are some other exciting pedigrees. This being the US forum, here is a silver didrachm of Philip V which was owned by President John Quincy Adams and descendants, eventually sold to benefit the Massachusetts Historical Society:
@SmEagle1795 That is incredible, thanks for sharing!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Norweb provenance: winsociety.org/newsletter/vol-3/happen_12-03.html
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
If your think about it pedigree and provenance is really just about knowing the story about the history and the more pieces one has of said history it adds to the puzzle of any artifact. It is a major piece of the reason that old holders are sought after.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I must say that the dealer wrote his disapproval eloquently and respectfully. A very interesting read indeed
I was able to buy the Eliasberg J-300 1c pattern a few years ago. It is graded MS64 in an OGH and I thought it was very choice for the grade. I paid a little premium, but it was CACed and subsequently PhotoSealed.
I think the Eliasberg collection has one of the coolest stories for a famous collection.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/1938536#Comment_1938536
Much appreciated, the point is well made.
Pedigrees that I like in general order of highest importance to me:
Newman
Garrett
Norweb
Pittman
Eliasberg
Ford
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
Very interesting read! I wonder about Part II of that story. Anyone have a link?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Thanks for all the great responses. I ended up winning the coin so I figured I would share it. It is a raw 1876/6876 Octagonal 50 Cents. BG-935, image from, https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-2V6EE/18766876-octagonal-50-cents-bg-935-rarity-5-indian-head-au-55-pl-uncertified
