Gold CAC'd gold coins vs other stuff... your thoughts?
Relaxn
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So,
I put together a type set of gold that are all Gold CAC'd. Common date gold mainly in 62/63 all old holders (mainly rattlers)... No pre 38 coins in Gold CAC. Now I am wondering what to do with them. I am seeking thoughts on the following:
Long term place of the CAC sticker. Right now it brings a premium on almost anything that is stickered... does that project to continue to be the case?
Gold CAC- is the craze that is going on with Gold stickers because of the potential of upgrades or because of the rarity of the sticker? Like collecting NGC white labels or Doilys... are they sought after because of rarity or because of the potential upgrade of the coin inside?
If you need 75k to buy land or another piece of property would you be inclined to sell Gold CAC'd coins or low mintage modern gold i.e. 2008-w Buffalo sets? Why?
I am seeking others out because I am emotional vested in the 2008-w Buffalo sets... love those coins... but am intrigued by Gold CAC'd Gold...
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“Gold CAC- is the craze that is going on with Gold stickers because of the potential of upgrades or because of the rarity of the sticker? “
Both, really. Some gold stickered coins are undergraded by two, and sometimes even three whole grades. Normally, you have to pay a minimum of 1.5 grades up, but often you have to pay two grades up.
In addition to being grossly undergraded, these coins are mostly in older holders, which already bring a premium on their own. The collectibility adds a whole other layer to it, especially when it’s a series that doesn’t often get gold stickers (trade dollars, seated dollars, etc) and collectors like yourself are trying to assemble type sets of them.
They are very difficult to make, unless you’re submitting inexpensive coins like mercury dimes. I would try to hold on to them if you can, I see more upside potential than I do 2008-w buffalo sets.
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I heard recently that CAC has only awarded around 7500 coins with a gold sticker in their 17 years of existence. That’s around one coin a day (36 a month) out of the thousands of coins they receive every week.
I believe in their own self reporting, they stated only .5% (1 out of every 200 coins) of submissions receive a gold sticker.
If true, that’s an exclusive club.
Tim
Future value is always a crap shoot, but, gold buffalos are common and can be replaced any day of the week. Gold beaned gold coins are tough and if you let them go they could end up in strong hands and not see the market again for many years. So if I needed to make this choice, I would give up that which is easy to replace,
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I guess it depends if you ever plan to buy similar coins again. You will have a very hard time finding Gold coins with Gold CAC stickers and will pay up for them. I have not watched 2008 Buffalos for a while so I can not speak to how often them come up for sale.
My choice would be to keep the gold.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Both the options are gold...
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I would hold the Gold CAC's over the buffalo's if you have that option. At one point I had over 100 Gold CAC's but sold some of them to buy the land in my profile pic. While I do wish I kept them, the land was definitely the best decision I made.
I only see an upside to them with plenty of room to grow, especially Gold on Gold!
In my world there is only one gold, Pre-33
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Gold and Goooooollllllllld.
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CAC will eventually stop stickering coins. Stickered coins will, at a minimum, hold their value up to and probably well past that point.
Someone reading this in 20 years who hasn't yet been conceived, please update this thread and let us know if you peel and discard the CAC sticker off of 'old' slabs or if they still bring a premium.
I would sell off the CAC Gold and keep the higher grade Buffalo mods, hopefully keeping AGW high. People bid up the gold stickered stuff into insane prices. Perhaps acquire some world bullion slabbed gold material. Most of my investor clients will not pay much more than 10 pct extra for stickered material. They are looking for nice slabbed 69&70 gold AGE, BUFx to maximize AGW in anticipation of tough times coming. One, a high level attorney likes the slabbed 1 oz gold AGB and AGE in 69 and 70. She and her husband Don very well off, are avid followers of the show New York Prepper on utube (scared) and have loaded up on survival food, iodine tabs (counters radiation), bug out bag, weapons, ammo, Geiger counter, and nearby bomb shelter location. Don said watching me look at my CDN stuff “after a nuk strike the slab coin industry will be toast, better unload them.”
Regardless of the low mintage of the 2008 Buffalo Sets or the like, I think the attraction of old gold, in premium plastic with gold stickers are much scarcer and more desirable in the intermediate future.
That's not to say demand won't exceed supply for the Buff's someday, but I would be surprised if they go stratospheric in my lifetime.
Of course the old gold, with gold, may be a little toppy at the moment (who knows?), but they sure aren't falling off of trees for the group of people that want to buy them.
I'd imagine I could replace one of this group within a week or two for about the same premium over melt, but certainly not the other.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Do you have pictures of the gold cac type set?!
If it is the land you want, don’t hesitate, sell your coins. I did just that to build our retirement home. Sure, my classic quarter eagle mint set all CACed will never be reproduced again. Sure my gold Dahlonega quarter eagles with gold stickers, nope, gone forever. But we have an amazing home to live in, I miss these amazing coins, but it is only coins, land, house, is better………….
The one gold CAC coin that I have is over graded because of the sticker. I over paid for it and stand to lose thousands when I sell it. I bought the coin years ago when CAC was getting started. I was stupid and got sucked into the hype.
If you pay a huge premium for the assigned grade because of a gold CAC sticker, you are very foolish.
Is this a ginger counter?
Philippians 4:4-7
How about a white label PCGS 1.1 rattler displaying a $20 Saint in MS-63 with a GOLD sticker?
Or a black NGC 1.0 slab displaying a $20 Saint in MS-62 with a GOLD sticker?
A TRIPLE GOLD play!!!!
There might only be three of each left in the world?
Not replaceable.
Sometimes coins for dirt makes sense.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
They probably won't know what coins are.
But they will know what gold is and will be even more impressed.
Bill, can we see the coin? Obviously you shouldn't pay a huge premium JUST because of the gold sticker, but your coin has to be at least solid for the next grade up.
With gold stickers, I normally try to price the coin for the grade I think it should be, then add maybe 10-20% on top of that for the novelty. Have you sold anything recently? I'm not so sure you would lose anything at all, and knowing how modest you are about your collection, I have a feeling it might be a knockout....
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PCGS graded this piece EF-40. That was the right NET grade because it has been brushed and has light hairlines. The difference between EF and AU increases the price by five fold.
As for the state of market, I got a taste of it a couple of nights ago. I put up substantial bids on a couple of tokens and came in second, as usual. One other token that has sold for a bit over $3,000 in the past brought well over $5,000. These are just base metal tokens with no gold in them.
I like the coin Bill, it’s struck very well and is extremely sharp for the grade. The wipe doesn’t bother me terribly, it’s not offensive and still looks like it has some skin.
If that’s an XF40 in an older holder with a gold sticker, the FLOOR for my offer would be at least 6500. If you bought it right after CAC opened, I’d be shocked if you paid more than that. If you want to ship me the coin, I’ll give you my best offer and get you out of it.
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At that price, I'm still losing money.
Like I said, that’s the FLOOR. Am in the ballpark?
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Yea, you are in the ballpark.
Ok, well shoot me a message if that’s a route you’re considering. But John doesn’t apply gold CAC unless there’s a good reason. The coin would be CH/AU (im talking 58/slider, not 55) without the wipe, and that issue often comes really ugly so i understand his rationale to give it a gold despite the wipe.
You paid a kings ransom at the time, but the market has caught up,
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The difference between an XF-40 and a XF -45 will yield a gold sticker although it is not a major grade or price change but yet a symbolic victory for the submitter.
I went through that exact same scenario with a much more popular coin.
I bought an awesome 1916-D dime graded PCGS OGH G-04 (not stickered) on the floor of the Boston ANA in 2010. I paid $800 which was a bit of a premium at the time. I was thrilled with this coin. I showed it to Laura Sperber who remarked that it was a gem good, a phrase I never heard before.
I immediately drove this coin down to CAC after the ANA show ended fully expecting a gold sticker. I was shocked when it received a green sticker. I went back to CAC to ask JA why it did not deserve a gold sticker. He studied the coin again and stated it is still a good grade. G-04 to G-06 is still Good. No gold sticker. I replied an AU-58 vs an AU-55 gets a gold sticker but is still AU. JA agreed. It became only the second slabbed 1916-D dime ever to garner a gold sticker.
It is not how much the coin is undergraded but essentially a mystery box that excites the potential buyer of a gold stickered coin as they are not always sharp graders. The rarity of the gold sticker does add to the mystic of ownership of such a coin. Getting such coin upgraded with PCGS, even with CACG loses most of its “mystery box” value.
,,,, the FLOOR for my offer would be at least 6500. If you bought it right after CAC opened, I’d be shocked if you paid more than that. If you want to ship me the coin, I’ll give you my best offer and get you out of it.
Is the main forum the correct place to solicit business?
Who are you again? Here’s a coin for you…
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Who I am has nothing to do with the question asked,
The set is
7 rattlers
2 of the gold embossed but not white label Old Holders (both of these are Indians)
And 3 OGH PCGS holders
None of the coins are imaged.
I did not over pay for any... i.e. the St Gaudens I paid 2k for 10 months ago...
I have bought and Sold Buffalos a few times but re buying them this time cost me more than normal. Most likely due to Spot price running.
I appreciate all the conversation! It does help as I have this discussion with my wife.
Looks like I will start selling the Buffalos.
Kind regards
J
The gold embossed NGCs still get a lot of attention. How many of them are saints? Saints are pretty common with gold stickers, Indians not so much. Regardless, the saints will trend with gold the same way the buffalos will, and gold stickered coins will only become more finite as time goes on, so I think you’re making the right call.
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Only 1 Saint
1 saint
2 20$ lib
2 2.5 lib
2 5 lib
1. 10 lib
1 10 Ind
2 2.5 ind
1 5 ind
Did not set out to buy GOLD CAC but picked up a few in one place and then juat happened to pick up one here and there...
.
Normally, I would agree that negotiating is not in scope here but the dialogue is pertinent to the topic so I, for one, appreciate the sharing of the conversation in the general forum.
Tim
Tim, that was my reasoning for doing so. I figured the best way to support my point was to put my money where my mouth is. I wasn’t necessarily trying to “negotiate” but I felt that in this instance, skirting the line was in the best interest of the discussion.
If anyone other than newcomer anonymous troll (with a private profile, to conceal the fact that he’s only here to stir the pot) had said something about it I would have explained my reasoning. I owe him no explanation, and I will not feed the trolls.
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Best of luck with the "insult dealer" model.
I am more into scarce currency than some CAC Gold Issue. To reduce risk I like AGE and AGB for gold investment stuff I can get near melt. Mod Gold Commems another gold investment area. My focus is on what my customers can afford. Many world gold issues scarcer vs US yet cheaper. If increasing gold investment rather participate in that arena, stuff near melt. Plus it’s material my customers can afford.
I have nothing against CAC Gold and read the book on early 20th century gold decades ago. Have handled a lot of them but been there done that. Show me your 1927-D $20 CACG.