WitterBrick - Another mystery box concept coming soon
U1chicago
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Another mystery box concept coming soon….
“Similar to the concept of buying sealed packs of trading cards, WitterBrick will offer sealed boxes of carefully selected, vintage and modern U.S. coins that showcase their rich history and numismatic significance. Every coin in WitterBrick will be graded and certified by CAC Grading.”
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/witterbrick-program-to-include-coins-graded-by-cac-grading
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Here we go again lol
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
lmaoooooo
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Calling @NJCoin who will surely opine once pricing is announced as our CONSUMER ADVOCATE!
There is nothing new under the sun. This is the old "grab bag" idea that I used to see as a kid in the 1970's ads in the back of magazines, along with magic tricks, sea monkeys, and bb guns!
Oh my……
Just as a brief counterpoint for someone who likes to gamble on these, nevermind the fact it's a terrible gamble.
Witter said minimum 70% value based on CPG, so in reality, minimum 50% value. This seems like a much higher floor than Vaultbox. Coin quality should be very solid considering CACG grading.
This isn't a needed or necessary innovation but I do think it's much better for the average collector/gambler than the other options.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Stay tuned for the new Peak Rarities “Box of Deplorables” mystery box- coming soon!
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I'm surprised to see Seth promoting a mystery box concept after he was so critical of VaultBox.
Seth is a good guy. I bet these will trend nicer on the whole.
I havent participated in other similar offerings. But if there is something worth gambling for I might gamble.
I like that everything will be cac graded. Anxious to see the list of coins that will be included.
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If you can’t beat them, join them?
"Stay tuned for the new Peak Rarities “Box of Deplorables” mystery box- coming soon!"
Good choice with the box.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
There will always be a new way to help fools to part with their money.
Latin American Collection
I just don’t get it. To each their own if you can make a buck and customers are satisfied. But, doesn’t this whole concept fly in the face of coin collecting/acquisitions. We spend infinite hours debating the subtlest and sometimes microscopic nuances of an individual coin, and then someone’s willing to buy something competently sight unseen? I mean completely and utterly sight unseen??
If you wanna gamble go buy a scratch off ticket or give the indians some recompense.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Pig, meet poke!
Mr. Marketing, Seth Chandler speaks on his latest project, WitterBrick.
"You'll get approximately 70% in price guide value in every box."
https://instagram.com/p/C9CqthbpjKi/
I think it's largely for people who'd like to gamble (by means other than scratch-off tickets, etc.) rather than collect.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Witter has been running mystery games on Whatnot for at least the past month so this isn’t really much different but yeah I get where you are coming from.
When you constantly see no shortage of people on the Whatnot platform bidding up Vaultboxes 50% or more over their MSRP either outright or through a probabilistic value in a game it can change one’s view on the merits of the concept I suppose.
Hey, c'mon, you forgot the "X-RAY GLASSES"!
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Shouldn't it be a Basket of Deplorables?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Thanks for the shout out! 😀
"Pricing" is all relative, and the relevant metric is percent of actual value in the box. Not price per se. If all the boxes are relatively equal in value, and the game is just to buy random coins selected by Seth and graded by CACG, and priced fairly, it's an interesting concept, and I wish them luck.
If it's just another unregulated lottery, then it's no different from what the other guys are offering, no matter who is doing the promoting or the marketing, and I don't wish them luck. Not that my wishes mean anything to anyone.
I'm done opining. When VB launched, it was a very new thing, and even some of the so-called experts here were bamboozled because they didn't either read or understand the fine print in their disclosures. So I thought I was adding value, but ended up being vilified for it by some.
We are well past that now, so I have nothing to add. People can do what they want, and there is clearly a demand for this type of thing, since people keep coming up with them.
With NGC, PCGS and CACG all now involved in the "mystery box" game, one wonders if the big two (ICG and ANACS) will also seek publicity and attach their names to sight unseen coin gambling or just stick to grading coins as they cross their desk?
And so it is written, and so it shall be 🙂.
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“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
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The majority of coin collectors do not spend hours debating microscopic nuances. The majority just fill holes or buy what they think is pretty or might appreciate in value.
As for mystery boxes, some people just love them. Go to WhatNot.com there's at least one running all day long.
I'm thinking of putting together one for later this summer.
Noooooooo!
Even if there are bust halves included?
😂
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Well ... hmmmmmm .... ChAU Bust Halves??!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
We need another VaultBox thread. It's been to quiet without one for so long. 😆
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Except, if that's what this is, it isn't new!
I think you are looking at it upside down. The TPGs are not seeking publicity with this.
Rather, it is the purveyors seeking legitimacy by attaching themselves to a TPG. Given that NGC, PCGS and now, CACG, are willing to be associated with such enterprises, do you think anyone will think theirs will be even better, or more desirable, through an association with ICG or ANACS?
If not, don't hold your breath waiting to see those names on any sealed boxes any time soon. Just like no one is clamoring to have ICG and ANACS included in registries, no one otherwise interested in a mystery box will be holding their horses waiting for one graded by ICG or ANACS.
I'm sure ICG and ANACS would be flattered, and would fall over themselves to grab the money if it was offered, but there is just no reason to go with them when the Big 3 are willing to do this. Like everything else in our hobby, a mystery box graded by the Little 2 would instantly be deemed to be second class.
If I want to gamble I go 160 miles south to Vegas
Mike
My Indians
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Given the recent dearth of dodgy disingenuous deals, I daresay the default should be a "duffel of deplorables".
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
I can only think of three dealers I’d buy from sight unseen.
I thought the appeal of this concept was in the gambling aspect - the chance to win big.
CACG at 70% CPG seems to be an attempt to appeal to more serious collectors.
Will be interesting to see how it goes - it’s a different target market than vaultbox in my opinion.
Are there some boxes that contain significantly higher value coins, whereas others contain only base value ones, or are all boxes worth about the same?
What about raw coins? Do any "mystery boxes" with quality uncertified coins exist, at reasonable prices? (Not talking about scammy eBay lots)
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
that's going to be some expensive gum
Depends. I've long said that you can make money on these using bid/ask spreads.
Totally made up math since I don't know the breakdown, but assume a 20% margin. Save this for later.
Imagine you sell 1000 boxes at 100% of CPG. Call it $100 if that's easier. The floor on the boxes is $70. That means you have $30,000 to distribute. You make 50 boxes worth $120. That costs you $2500 of the $30,000. You make 50 boxes worth $170. That costs you $5000. You make 10 boxes worth $1000, that costs you $9000. Total cost of the coins in your boxes:
890×70 + 50x120 +50x170+10x1000= $86,800 in prizes. But you bought them at 20% back so you've only got $69,400 into them. Slabbing and packaging at maybe $20 per con makes the total cost $89,400. You've still got $11,000 in profit. And you also have 100 (10%) of the buyers with small wins and 10 (1%) with big wins.
Whatever else it might be, it won't be CACG at 70% of CPG. I think what they are saying is that the value you receive will be at least 70% of what you pay. In other words, you'll be paying $100 for each $70, minimum, in value you receive. Not the other way around. And they are surely using ask prices, not bid, so the minimum value is pretty much guaranteed to suck.
That said, the question will be how much above the minimum will the typical box go? And, will there be a gambling aspect to it, or will all the boxes have roughly the same value? TBD, since they have not yet released details.
I suppose the actual question is why would companies like PCGS, NGC and CACG agree to be associated with something that has struck obvious displeasure and frankly a bit of a joke with so many collectors? Are the majority of people buying mystery boxes serious collectors who care about the grading company inside or do they just see a chance to win something more than they put in? The grading companies are paid as you mention, and in the case of a CACG I would argue that as a new to grading company it also gets their name out there to non collectors looking to gamble on coins.
When ICG was selected to grade the Goodacre dollars, that was not part of a gimmick. They even delineated between type 1 and 2 varieties, which still hasn't been done elsewhere. To me that shows a respectability in the hobby. If I was just starting as a collector and looking for a reputable grading company, I'm not sure it would be one that's associated with mystery boxes. Maybe the idea of ANACS and ICG registry sets, as well as the companies themselves, should not be considered second class.
Because we shouldn't romanticize them. They are now, with the exception of CACG, private equity owned for profit enterprises. They don't worry about us snickering at how they make their money.
Their bread and butter is now moderns and special labels. Serious collectors snicker at that entire part of the hobby, and yet it's what drove huge valuations as NGC and PCGS were bought out the last few years.
This is nothing more than a natural extension of that. The TPGs are not passing judgment. They are just taking the money and grading the product.
Good for them, and shame on anyone who would think the boxes are garbage but for the "legitimacy" conferred by virtue of the slabs and the seals on the boxes being provided by a recognized TPG. The boxes are what they are, and a TPG sealing a box is doing nothing more than providing a service for a fee. I don't pass judgment on them for doing that any more than I do when they provide special labels for the TV guys to offer at stupid premiums. It's a business.
Doesn't mean I necessarily respect the hype the TV guys engage in when marking up their wares far beyond actual value. Or what the mystery box guys do when running an unregulated lottery. But I don't blame the TPGs for providing a service to them for a fee.
True, profits drive business, but when all that's left are gimmicks and the serious collectors are gone, what will be left?
Serious collectors aren't going anywhere. The TPGs still provide a valuable service to them, and it should be of no concern to serious collectors how the TPG private equity overlords make the bulk of their money by also providing services to telemarketers, mystery box assemblers, less serious collectors, etc.
These “boxes” do they come with a money back offer or a no return .
🤣 I can't tell whether or not this is a serious question. On the off chance it is, what do you think? Wouldn't be much of a mystery if it was returnable, now, would it? Do scratch off lottery tickets come with a money back offer?
If one was under the impression that all boxes were intended to have around the same value, I can see how it would be serious. I guess you answered my question, if some boxes can be worth a lot more than others.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
No. Either way, it's a mystery box. Not much of a mystery if it's returnable.
And it should be noted that there’s a good chance that “serious collectors” benefit by maintained or lower grading costs as a result of those TPGs having other revenue streams.
What’s the chances that ‘serious collectors’ becomes the new ’real collectors’ as a result of this discussion. 😉
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.