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Why didn’t this walker sticker?

lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭
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LCoopie = Les
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  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2024 6:15AM

    There are certain areas on the coin that are referred to as "focal points" or "focal areas". Your eyes tend to notice contact marks, dings and scratches in those areas more so than if they are hidden in the devices. In this case those contact marks are in a prime focal area, really stand out and drop the coin from a "GEM" MS-65 to more like a 64.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2024 6:15AM

    @pmh1nic said:
    There are certain areas on the coin that are referred to as "focal points" or "focal areas". Your eyes tend to notice contact marks, dings and scratches in those areas more so than if they are hidden in the devices. In this case those contract marks are in a prime focal area, really stand out and drop the coin from a "GEM" MS-65 to more like a 64.

    Or could have been a “65-C” in the opinion of the person who declined to award it a CAC sticker.

    *For Sale on BST* *For Sale on Ebay*
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m going to guess PVC.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    I’m going to guess PVC.

    Hi Tom, I'm not familiar with how CAG handles PVC. If they find PVC on a slabbed coin do they give any explanation on paperwork when the coin is returned to the owner?

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The initial eye appeal is good with the luster and the toning, but there are too many little marks in the field to qualify as a coin in that grade IMO.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • willywilly Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB Are the spots by the T & Y PVC ??

  • Slade01Slade01 Posts: 294 ✭✭✭

    @pmh1nic said:

    @TomB said:
    I’m going to guess PVC.

    Hi Tom, I'm not familiar with how CAG handles PVC. If they find PVC on a slabbed coin do they give any explanation on paperwork when the coin is returned to the owner?

    I've seen a number of failed submissions post with a red sticker on the front with PVC hand written on it.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @willy said:
    @TomB Are the spots by the T & Y PVC ??

    You CANNOT tell whether a coin has PVC by looking at a picture.

  • PumpkinheadPumpkinhead Posts: 47 ✭✭✭

    Right obverse field is a key focal area. Weak strike (and a lot of chatter) central obverse. Also, I’m not 100% convinced by the toning…

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2024 7:33AM

    The big reading mark in the right facing obverse field.

    The toning may be artificial.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was face to face with J A who explained it to me.
    No one got it yet.

    LCoopie = Les
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lcoopie said:
    I was face to face with J A who explained it to me.
    No one got it yet.

    High point rub?

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lcoopie said:
    I was face to face with J A who explained it to me.
    No one got it yet.

    It's a 58.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @willy said:
    @TomB Are the spots by the T & Y PVC ??

    You CANNOT tell whether a coin has PVC by looking at a picture.

    Your comment isn’t necessarily accurate. It depends on the coin and the picture.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerfan said:
    The big reading mark in the right facing obverse field.

    The toning may be artificial.

    The toning looks just fine and attractive to me.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Walkerfan said:
    The big reading mark in the right facing obverse field.

    The toning may be artificial.

    The toning looks just fine and attractive to me.

    Thanks for the input. I wasn't sure. It looks better to me on my PC than on my iPhone.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerfan said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Walkerfan said:
    The big reading mark in the right facing obverse field.

    The toning may be artificial.

    The toning looks just fine and attractive to me.

    Thanks for the input. I wasn't sure. It looks better to me on my PC than on my iPhone.

    You’re welcome. I’d toss the phone.
    😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Imo it’s probably not a complicated one, I think it’s just a 64 with attractive toning to which PCGS gave a color bump. Looks weak as a technical 5.

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  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And I got it from a reputable board member as well.

    LCoopie = Les
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    I can assure you of only one thing...... There are millions of collectors out there who don't care. They like the coin.

    I can assure you that you can't accurately assure anyone that millions of collectors like the coin.

    I can and I will. Do you like it , outside of the holder ?

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @willy said:
    @TomB Are the spots by the T & Y PVC ??

    You CANNOT tell whether a coin has PVC by looking at a picture.

    Your comment isn’t necessarily accurate. It depends on the coin and the picture.

    You are correct, Mark. I was referring to this specific picture and the possibility of "beginning" PVC.
    @TomB said on the CAC Forum,
    "...if the PVC on a coin is not old then it will be more pliable and transparent, but as it ages it can get more brittle and translucent. This is likely why CAC (and CACG) catch so many PVC damaged coins in older holders."

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would be happy with a 65 on that coin. I like the toning, but it’s pretty dingy.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @willy said:
    @TomB Are the spots by the T & Y PVC ??

    You CANNOT tell whether a coin has PVC by looking at a picture.

    Your comment isn’t necessarily accurate. It depends on the coin and the picture.

    You are correct, Mark. I was referring to this specific picture and the possibility of "beginning" PVC.
    @TomB said on the CAC Forum,
    "...if the PVC on a coin is not old then it will be more pliable and transparent, but as it ages it can get more brittle and translucent. This is likely why CAC (and CACG) catch so many PVC damaged coins in older holders."

    Thanks. I mistakenly took your comment as a general one.

    In a sense, the comment by @TomB could apply to why CAC catches coins that have been puttied. A recent putty job can be very difficult to detect, But once the putty has dried out and turned color, voila!

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2024 9:56AM

    @pmh1nic said:
    There are certain areas on the coin that are referred to as "focal points" or "focal areas". Your eyes tend to notice contact marks, dings and scratches in those areas more so than if they are hidden in the devices. In this case those contact marks are in a prime focal area, really stand out and drop the coin from a "GEM" MS-65 to more like a 64.

    I think spot on "LIBERTY" took this one to 63.

  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    I would be happy with a 65 on that coin. I like the toning, but it’s pretty dingy.

    Dingy?

    LCoopie = Les
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @MFeld said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    I can assure you of only one thing...... There are millions of collectors out there who don't care. They like the coin.

    I can assure you that you can't accurately assure anyone that millions of collectors like the coin.

    I can and I will. Do you like it , outside of the holder ?

    Yes, and inside too 🤪

    LCoopie = Les
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lcoopie said:

    @Smudge said:
    I would be happy with a 65 on that coin. I like the toning, but it’s pretty dingy.

    Dingy?

    Dings on the right arm, the sun, and behind Liberty.

  • HoldTheMayoHoldTheMayo Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2024 12:06PM

    Nice coin but IMO too many dings in the fields. Those dings also are really concentrated.
    Your eyes kinda wander to that spot.
    This has more of an MS64+ look to me.

  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LCoopie = Les
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lots of defects were found by the board based upon the photos.

    LCoopie = Les
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FrankH said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    There are certain areas on the coin that are referred to as "focal points" or "focal areas". Your eyes tend to notice contact marks, dings and scratches in those areas more so than if they are hidden in the devices. In this case those contact marks are in a prime focal area, really stand out and drop the coin from a "GEM" MS-65 to more like a 64.

    I think spot on "LIBERTY" took this one to 63.

    I think that hairlines are a more likely factor.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 879 ✭✭✭✭

    @lcoopie said:
    Lots of defects were found by the board based upon the photos.

    But the coins marks don’t appear inconsistent with the 65 grade. The biggest problem is the coin shows up as already pointed out as a 1946 Washington Quarter. Something is very wrong

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does CAC also consider strike on these? I'm thinking about another thread... full strike Walkers. Now, I can't get the hand and thumb out of my brain. Yes, I see contact Mark's too, but I'm also thinking strike...

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  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:
    Does CAC also consider strike on these? I'm thinking about another thread... full strike Walkers. Now, I can't get the hand and thumb out of my brain. Yes, I see contact Mark's too, but I'm also thinking strike...

    I’m sure they do but that doesn’t appear to be an issue in this case.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My guess is that CAC feels the coin is an attractive toned slider.

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @FrankH said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    There are certain areas on the coin that are referred to as "focal points" or "focal areas". Your eyes tend to notice contact marks, dings and scratches in those areas more so than if they are hidden in the devices. In this case those contact marks are in a prime focal area, really stand out and drop the coin from a "GEM" MS-65 to more like a 64.

    I think spot on "LIBERTY" took this one to 63.

    I think that hairlines are a more likely factor.

    Quite likely. But the SPOT was all I could look at. :s

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 879 ✭✭✭✭

    @lcoopie said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @MFeld said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    I can assure you of only one thing...... There are millions of collectors out there who don't care. They like the coin.

    I can assure you that you can't accurately assure anyone that millions of collectors like the coin.

    I can and I will. Do you like it , outside of the holder ?

    Yes, and inside too 🤪

    When will you reveal JA answer?

  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The answer was the full slab photo

    LCoopie = Les
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    "Why didn’t this walker sticker?"

    Because the obverse is peppered with contact marks.

    And spots.

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  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 879 ✭✭✭✭

    I told you guys I am no expert but it did look like it was certainly right for 65, too many assumptions made about contact marks

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,434 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lcoopie said:
    JA says

    It’s would sticker, he liked it, but they don’t sticker any label errors.

    Doh…. I just looked at the date and grade and ignored the denomination!

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