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What would happen if you dilute dipping solution and
stevereecy
Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
Hi guys,
Suppose you had an XF coin that toned so much that it’s an ugly almost black toning with hints of blue and green.
Now suppose you took some dipping solution and diluted it with 10 parts water to one part solution. Then quickly dipped the coin.
Would it remove only the outer layers of the toning, making it more colorful, perhaps giving it the appearance it had…say…20 years ago?
Anyone try this? Using a diluted dip solution to strip only some of the toning?
Really enjoying collecting coins and currency again
My currency "Box of Ten" Thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1045579/my-likely-slow-to-develop-box-of-ten#latest
My currency "Box of Ten" Thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1045579/my-likely-slow-to-develop-box-of-ten#latest
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If it is a circulated coin and is that dark I don't see it turning out well,,,,,,
You need to be much more specific and detailed with your questions. What type of coin? What type of dipping solution?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Sterling silver. Jewelry cleaner. Anyone want to take one for the team and try this with a dark toned junk coin?
My currency "Box of Ten" Thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1045579/my-likely-slow-to-develop-box-of-ten#latest
I wouldn't intentionally dilute a tub, maybe try it in a shallow dish. Once diluted you can't go back.
I have some older e-Zest solution that has had some bullion dipped and I haven't been careful about not getting water in the dip.
It's a little watered down and may not clean as quick.
I dip different pieces and still get mixed results...you can always dip longer or a second/third time.
I dunked a couple V nickels that were shadowed in dark spots and It did very little.
I may hit them again with a stonger tub that I have.
Unless the goal is to have an XF (or lower) details coin.
For the great majority of coins, I see this turning out poorly.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
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First I will say that I agree with some of those above about this probably not working well. Also I can't image it looking like it did ...say...20 years ago.
To understand toning a little go to the below links. It will describe colors as they are associated with toning thickness.
This link need to page down through it and look for the color spectrum (charts).
http://www.jhonecash.com/coins/tonedmorgans.asp
This link is more technical about the angle and thickness and stuff.
http://www.jhonecash.com/research/toning_physics.asp
So when you dip a toned coin quickly (call it flash dip or whatever) it will remove a thin layer of the toning (and metal). The colors that are the thinnest will get removed faster or with less dip time. I have tested this on a kind of ugly album type toned coin / silver round and the center became or went back to silver color fairly quickly. The toning on an album type tone nearer to the rim is thicker.
On a dark toned silver bar or round (I don't recall) the dark tone dis/does come off slowly with each flash dip. As I recall I saw it change to a brown, then tan and finally had a chalky white color. This could be described as hazy. This hazy may or may not come off and may or may not come back later. But the dark color didn't come off evenly throughout. This could be due to the initial toning being different in thickness and/or the dip working at different rates across the coin. Also some toning may be essentially etched into the coin and the surface damaged.
However, dipping is stripping the coin of metal or luster and the darker the toning the more likely it won't work out. Here is an example of a coin that was over-dipped to show results.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1077119/1-1883-o-over-dip#latest
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023
I believe the laws of physics and chemistry will not allow this to happen in the way you hope or expect.
Colours on coins are generated by the "thin film effect" - in essence, it's the same laws of optics that generate colours in soap bubbles and oil slicks. On a coin, the "thin film" in question is a thin layer of corrosion - in the case of a silver coin, that would be silver sulfide. The colour range tends to "follow the rainbow": red is thinnest, then orange, yellow, green and blue. The colour after blue is black, because at that point the corrosion layer becomes too thick to be transparent.
The layer forms slowly, as the coin is exposed to atmospheric sulfur. This exposure in a gaseous environment is quite uniform, creating a uniformly thick layer of silver sulfide, meaning just one colour tends to dominate a naturally toned coin.
"Silver dip", a solution of thiourea and sulfuric acid in water, dissolves silver sulfide by chelation - essentially, the thiourea molecules rip the silver sulfide molecules apart, bonding with the ionized silver and dissolving it away; the sulfide then reacts with the hydrogen in the acid to form hydrogen sulfide (which is why dipping a tarnished coin results in the "rotten egg" smell).
The problem is, this dissolved-in-solution process is nowhere near as evenly spread across the coin's surface as the gaseous process that cause the toning to form in the first place. At a molecular level, the reaction is "lumpy" - meaning some bits of the surface will be thinner than others. This uneven surface will disrupt the colour-forming optical effects, essentially destroying all "colour" as the light gets absorbed and reflected randomly. A partially-dipped coin has two colours: black (or at least grey) and white. Making the dip more dilute will not change or alter this, if anything it would make it worse as there's even less chemicals in the solution to do the reacting.
If you "partially dipped" your hypothetical coin, I'm sure the result would be much the same: the still-tarnished areas would look black (not blue), while the rest of the coin would be white.
Sorry, but if you want to "change the colour" of a toned coin, the only option is to strip the old toning away completely and artificially retone it.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I can add one thing. A flash dip will not work with full strengh dip. Tried it.
it will look even uglier than before -> 10x dilution still works rather quickly
try 50x or 100x water/acid
most people say only dip uncirculated coins
please give us before and after pics if you give it a go
There is a greater than average chance that either the coin will turn out worse as it will unmask some damage hidden under the coins toning, or it won't come off equally and leave it splotchy or likewise... especially if the toning is very thick. The thicker the toning the more likely it's hiding something underneath.
Without seeing the coin though, it's tough to really give a recommendation other than it's a big risk!
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Dark toning means a thick skin. Will look dull if you lighten it and will also destabilize the skin making it more prone to terminal toning/ environmental damage. Coin Chemistry book by Weimar White said it’s possible to remove some forms of corrosion while leaving toning intact with EDTA, and because I had some at work I experimented with some pocket change and it does leave some toning but still doesn’t look right. It’s sort of in between acetone and dip, but if you use it on copper the EDTA solution turns blue and the coin comes out pink like dip does to copper.
Mr_Spud
Black can mean "terminal" toning.
If you strip that, you don't get lesser color, you get lesser metal in that area.
I've done it on an unc walker that wasn't much more than bullion and I saw the results.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment