You stated the coins need to be CAC'd and you trust JA so much... yet you buy non CAC coins?
PCGS/NGC and then CAC were created for the purpose of catering to more sophisticated collectors such as yourself.
The days of crackouts and upgrades passed us by 20 years ago.
I dont think it's worth arguing with this user anymore. The issue here is that the OP is so strong in his belief that everything needs to be CACed/PCGS/whatever. Of course, the obvious question is why not buy one of the thousands of CACed coins already. What is happening here is a "paper collector" who knows a little bit of market correction based on stickers/grades/companies that it has clouded the numismatic side of collecting. But, with regards to approval service and the seemingly lack of understanding what the issue is, I would point out a couple things for the last time.
The OP asked along the lines before what percentage of returns is acceptable to dealers. The answer is, there is no answer for that. The fact that the OP stated the actual return policy of no more than 1 per month from GC means that user actually looked up what return percentage was allowed. Seems like he thinks that 40% return is not that high? As others have mentioned as well with their stories/comments, I have collected coins for 35 years, and been a dealer for almost 30. I still collect at a high level, and I deal at what I consider a strong level. In all those years, and thousands and thousands of coins through my hands, I have returned less than 5 total coins in 35 years! The reason for this, is simply I researched the coin I was looking to buy, understood what each variety/date/mint mark etc had normally as factors with the coin, and operated from there. But at the end of the day, a successful numismatist must FIRST understand strongly the coin they are buying. No amount of plastic or stickers will teach that.
For the OP, as Mr Feld said, I am in no way angry as a dealer, I am trying to help you. I have commented multiple times on multiple topics started, all with similar advice. I may be speaking "stronger" now trying to get this information to be accepted. I am sorry if you feel that I am part of the "bullying" you suggest, that is not at all my personal intention. But protecting the hobby and trying to grow collectors most certainly is a passionate area for me.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
You stated the coins need to be CAC'd and you trust JA so much... yet you buy non CAC coins?
PCGS/NGC and then CAC were created for the purpose of catering to more sophisticated collectors such as yourself.
The days of crackouts and upgrades passed us by 20 years ago.
I do buy coins without CAC if I like them and send them in for a sticker. So far they all passed but if one didn’t I would sell the coin and buy another one
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Ive never submitted a coin to CAC? Are all my coins C level? Of course I focus on colonials and Exonumia, but by your definition all my coins are C level. If you believe PCGS can mis-grade a coin in general, then why would you not assume that there are C-level coins with a sticker? This belief of yours is called a "paper-collector" not a numismatist. Just my opinion.
Edited to add: And then again, explain why every coin you seem to buy is NON-CAC, then ask here if everyone thinks it would CAC, when they say their opinions, you return the coin? Why not buy one of the hundreds/thousands already CACed if you are so sure of their opinion?
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
One collector’s MS65 C coin is another collector’s MS64 A coin. If you paid MS64 money for it, who cares?
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
You keep saying that and it's an ignorant statement. Not all coins without a sticker are "C" coins. I collect seated quarters in the VF-AU range and have lots of non CAC A&B coins. I don't need JA's blessing to decide if I like a coin or not and neither do a lot of other collectors.
So ignoring the majority of the discussion here, on the topic of Franklin halves for type...
I would suggest one of the following:
A 1948 since it is the first year and frequently comes hammered, should be easy to find in 65 or better.
or an early 50's S mint, there is something about the luster on gem early S Franklins that is just really nice.
I find circulation strike Franklins after about 1955 to be generally boring. Your mileage may vary.
@ChrisH821 said:
So ignoring the majority of the discussion here, on the topic of Franklin halves for type...
I would suggest one of the following:
A 1948 since it is the first year and frequently comes hammered, should be easy to find in 65 or better.
or an early 50's S mint, there is something about the luster on gem early S Franklins that is just really nice.
I find circulation strike Franklins after about 1955 to be generally boring. Your mileage may vary.
Chris you are totally right with this information, unfortunately it seems the OP is really not interested in the numismatic facts, which is what it is. There are many others who think the same way (mostly younger generation trying to make a quick buck, but almost always fail with the mindset). But, it's nice to see the numismatic facts, Im just not sure that will matter here.
Edited to add: My point being a collector who focused on the "paper" numbers of grades/registry will often have a lack or limited understanding of the actual coins they are buying. Me personally, I can't be behind buying "slabbed" books, which existed first in comic books, but now companies certify "books". If you can only buy the book itself, but not be able to read or look at it, how much knowledge can one really gain by that, other than just hoping their $100 purchase remains valued at $100.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Well said!! @Walkerlover you ask what you should do, or are confused about what advice you should follow. Every single answer has been THIS above. Numismatics is a hobby of course, but is also a group of people who agree on their love for this amazing hobby we have. The "angle" you come from, well, its just not that respected amongst people who have spent their lives (free time anyway) studying what they are buying. How will you ever grow as a coin collector following stickers and plastic? PCGS is not here to protect your decisions, they are here to give a backed up opinion of the grade. Same as CAC, NGC, ANACS etc. It's up to the collector to determine what is right for them, NOT the seller.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC. My other issue is I strongly prefer an older no prong holder as a requirement. Edited to add.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me. The coin we are discussing here is maybe a $10 difference between CAC/non CAC. Its too low valued where the CAC would matter?
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin. Edited to add. I will harder to look for a CAC coin
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin.
OK. Do your thing. I have been giving you some advice that will help you in your numismatic journey. You can do whatever you want, but just remember, the approach you have done has not been well received here, for reasons that are EXTREMELY obvious. Again, you are welcome to do what you want, but you will not gain any respect here in this group with your current strategy. As I said so many times before, if you want to continue that, maybe look for another venue to "show off" and comment.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin.
But you weren't on this one that you bought and returned right? Dont you see the problem here?
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin.
But you weren't on this one that you bought and returned right? Dont you see the problem here?
Please clarify I am not sure I understand but I will take your advice and look harder for a CAC coin
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin.
But you weren't on this one that you bought and returned right? Dont you see the problem here?
Please clarify I am not sure I understand but I will take your advice and look harder for a CAC coin
You didn't use that criteria on THIS coin from the beginning. Look, Im done here without an update, if you want a certain coin in a certain grade that is CACed with a certain holder, then why not buy or look for that coin. Instead, you ask here after you have bought a coin to see if it will meet those criteria (ones that didn't meet your standards before). See the problem? Just go out and buy one of the dozens that are already CACed. Why is that so hard to understand. You are not being right here, buy your own coin and hope it CACs if that is so important, but you return it if we (the forum) points out issues. So what not just wait and buy a CACed $100 coin. Your costs are very little on the coins you mention.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin.
But you weren't on this one that you bought and returned right? Dont you see the problem here?
Please clarify I am not sure I understand but I will take your advice and look harder for a CAC coin
You didn't use that criteria on THIS coin from the beginning. Look, Im done here without an update, if you want a certain coin in a certain grade that is CACed with a certain holder, then why not buy or look for that coin. Instead, you ask here after you have bought a coin to see if it will meet those criteria (ones that didn't meet your standards before). See the problem? Just go out and buy one of the dozens that are already CACed. Why is that so hard to understand. You are not being right here, buy your own coin and hope it CACs if that is so important, but you return it if we (the forum) points out issues. So what not just wait and buy a CACed $100 coin. Your costs are very little on the coins you mention.
Thank you for the advice. Appreciate your efforts to educate me on some of these things. But if I see a great coin which I properly screen with a seller and my own knowledge of what a 65 should look like a may take a shot with CAC and submit it. If it fails I will eat the cost and sell it. I have had good luck with selecting candidates for CAC that pass.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin.
But you weren't on this one that you bought and returned right? Dont you see the problem here?
Please clarify I am not sure I understand but I will take your advice and look harder for a CAC coin
You didn't use that criteria on THIS coin from the beginning. Look, Im done here without an update, if you want a certain coin in a certain grade that is CACed with a certain holder, then why not buy or look for that coin. Instead, you ask here after you have bought a coin to see if it will meet those criteria (ones that didn't meet your standards before). See the problem? Just go out and buy one of the dozens that are already CACed. Why is that so hard to understand. You are not being right here, buy your own coin and hope it CACs if that is so important, but you return it if we (the forum) points out issues. So what not just wait and buy a CACed $100 coin. Your costs are very little on the coins you mention.
My biggest challenge is not buying an overgraded coin. I have learned from CAC failures about PVC detection, hairlines, and somewhat about high point friction, surface issues so to speak. But I buy only blazing luster without spots or negative eye appeal so I think that helps my CAC candidates have a better chance
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
But the thing is again if you are so sure CAC is the end all thought, why not just from the beginning buy a CAC coin. By your thoughts, ANY SINGLE CAC coin will work for you because you did no work, who cares what the coin looks like…etc…do you see the point here? If you don’t, well, we can’t help you.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
The implication of your question, it would appear, is that if you were buying from "good sellers" you would not have to return a coin. It sounds to me like you are still looking for ways to deflect responsibility.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
The implication of your question, it would appear, is that if you were buying from "good sellers" you would not have to return a coin. It sounds to me like you are still looking for ways to deflect responsibility.
No this is a legitimate question to learn about the EBay model. Simple stated for a good seller with a near 100% approval rating what percentage of coins on average will be returned from his sales. Just want to learn since we are on this topic. your best estimate or your own experience if you are a dealer. No trick question
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
The implication of your question, it would appear, is that if you were buying from "good sellers" you would not have to return a coin. It sounds to me like you are still looking for ways to deflect responsibility.
No this is a legitimate question to learn about the EBay model. Simple stated for a good seller with a near 100% approval rating what percentage of coins on average will be returned from his sales. Just want to learn since we are on this topic. your best estimate or your own experience if you are a dealer. No trick question
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
The implication of your question, it would appear, is that if you were buying from "good sellers" you would not have to return a coin. It sounds to me like you are still looking for ways to deflect responsibility.
No this is a legitimate question to learn about the EBay model. Simple stated for a good seller with a near 100% approval rating what percentage of coins on average will be returned from his sales. Just want to learn since we are on this topic. your best estimate or your own experience if you are a dealer. No trick question
I've had zero returns over the past two years.
And I’ve had none in the past 12 years. It must say something right? Edited to add, 0 total coins not returned have been CAC
You have totally been able to see the issue now with multiple threads and literally hundreds of people telling you your approach is wrong over the multiple threads on the EXACT same thing for the last year:
Either you think we are ALL crazy, or maybe the more obvious thought it that you yourself may be missing something here. Geez, we are trying to help but I’ve honestly never met someone so oblivious to the obvious truth. Take a step back, READ AND UNDERSTAND the advice you have gotten; and it will make sense. If you recall many of us telling you to take a step back, ingest the advice, and then use it to your advantage is almost so obvious it’s getting annoying. Do your thing; but do it outside of here if you plan to continue this silly posting/nonsense.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
The implication of your question, it would appear, is that if you were buying from "good sellers" you would not have to return a coin. It sounds to me like you are still looking for ways to deflect responsibility.
No this is a legitimate question to learn about the EBay model. Simple stated for a good seller with a near 100% approval rating what percentage of coins on average will be returned from his sales. Just want to learn since we are on this topic. your best estimate or your own experience if you are a dealer. No trick question
I've had zero returns over the past two years.
And I’ve had none in the past 12 years. It must say something right? Edited to add, 0 total coins not returned have been CAC
You have totally been able to see the issue now with multiple threads and literally hundreds of people telling you your approach is wrong over the multiple threads on the EXACT same thing for the last year:
Either you think we are ALL crazy, or maybe the more obvious thought it that you yourself may be missing something here. Geez, we are trying to help but I’ve honestly never met someone so oblivious to the obvious truth. Take a step back, READ AND UNDERSTAND the advice you have gotten; and it will make sense. If you recall many of us telling you to take a step back, ingest the advice, and then use it to your advantage is almost so obvious it’s getting annoying. Do your thing; but do it outside of here if you plan to continue this silly posting/nonsense.
Absolutely my next post will be a great Franklin that I definitely kept for my collection to be proud of to round out my type set. I am waiting patiently now for exactly the right coin Appreciate your patience explaining this to me. Thank You 😊
MS65 CAC in an old PCGS holder, with pretty nice luster to my eyes. I've never had an issue with Kearney's pics being inaccurate. Didn't seem to take too long to find, despite how much the OP tried to say it was. Granted, it's above $100.
While these may not meet the "eye appeal standards" of the OP, I'd suggest he consider that I was able to come up with two coins in his requirement range in under five minutes. These coins aren't difficult to find.
You stated the coins need to be CAC'd and you trust JA so much... yet you buy non CAC coins?
PCGS/NGC and then CAC were created for the purpose of catering to more sophisticated collectors such as yourself.
The days of crackouts and upgrades passed us by 20 years ago.
I do buy coins without CAC if I like them and send them in for a sticker. So far they all passed but if one didn’t I would sell the coin and buy another one
you just told us in this thread about a SLQ that didn't sticker and you said you sold it. you indicated it was AU not MS
you did say you sold it but we also know you return coins. why not just sell all of them that don't cac?
@Walkerlover said:
I bought a $300 SLQ PCGS 64, but it failed CAC. Loved the coin but sold it as I cannot have a AU 58+ masquerading as a legitimate MS coin.
@Walkerlover said:
I bought a $300 SLQ PCGS 64, but it failed CAC. Loved the coin but sold it as I cannot have a AU 58+ masquerading as a legitimate MS coin.
I’ve been on the sidelines for this thread but your last statement has me scratching my head.
Since when does a PCGS MS64 coin become an AU58+ just because it doesn’t CAC? Your logic doesn’t make sense with your statement. Does that mean a MS62 becomes an AU55 if it doesn’t CAC?
It does for sure when JA points out very light discoloration and loss of luster on the knee of a SLQ. I saw it, learned from it. Minor wear but it definitely is not a true Uncirculated coin. Perhaps I neglected to point out the issue was high point friction. Not a matter of over grading but a surface issue
they are posted in full size from the bay, and if you right-click on the picture and "open image in new tab" you'll see the jumbo pics.
with such great pics, you are getting "what's described" not "what's disguised." it's bothersome to think you initiate returns in similar situations despite getting what's pictured.
I swear the obverse did not have that great luster in hand although the reverse had very attractive rim tone more close to the photo. Please understand. Thanks
MS65 CAC in an old PCGS holder, with pretty nice luster to my eyes. I've never had an issue with Kearney's pics being inaccurate. Didn't seem to take too long to find, despite how much the OP tried to say it was. Granted, it's above $100.
While these may not meet the "eye appeal standards" of the OP, I'd suggest he consider that I was able to come up with two coins in his requirement range in under five minutes. These coins aren't difficult to find.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
I sell a few thousand coins on eBay per year. Not counting an occasional and ridiculous SNAD case invariably complaining about something in the description and/or photos, two a year would be really high. Zero or maybe one would be much more likely.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
@Catbert said:
Off topic a bit. I'm beginning to think that the OP's desire to play the CAC game has corrupted his thinking (as it has with many) vs gaining skills to at least know what quality looks like regardless of the sticker status. edit to add - AND to be happy with a coin without a sticker.
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me.
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin. Edited to add. I will harder to look for a CAC coin
A few months? There are coins I could buy dozens of every day, yet I’ve had them on my want list for YEARS waiting to find the right example. If you want something specific, patience is a necessity. If you have high standards, the last thing you can do is also set a time limit by which you must buy a coin.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
I sell a few thousand coins on eBay per year. Not counting an occasional and ridiculous SNAD case invariably complaining about something in the description and/or photos, two a year would be really high. Zero or maybe one would be much more likely.
I average about 2 per year. Usually one of them was my fault, i.e. I missed something describing a raw coin.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
I don’t feel ethically required too unless specifically asked by a buyer. And I don’t expect sellers to tell me either unless I specifically ask.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
I don’t feel ethically required too unless specifically asked by a buyer. And I don’t expect sellers to tell me either unless I specifically ask.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
I don’t feel ethically required too unless specifically asked by a buyer. And I don’t expect sellers to tell me either unless I specifically ask.
but they may return it if it doesn't cac
That’s fine I don’t have a problem with that but maybe they will have better luck
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
I don’t feel ethically required too unless specifically asked by a buyer. And I don’t expect sellers to tell me either unless I specifically ask.
but they may return it if it doesn't cac
That’s fine I don’t have a problem with that but maybe they will have better luck
If they have better luck, would you not be implying that CAC might not be perfectly consistent? If someone else got your CAC-rejected coin to sticker, would you then buy it?
@ChrisH821 said:
So ignoring the majority of the discussion here, on the topic of Franklin halves for type...
I would suggest one of the following:
A 1948 since it is the first year and frequently comes hammered, should be easy to find in 65 or better.
or an early 50's S mint, there is something about the luster on gem early S Franklins that is just really nice.
I find circulation strike Franklins after about 1955 to be generally boring. Your mileage may vary.
Totally agree here. Post-1954 Franklins are horrible compared to the earlier years.
@Walkerlover said:
So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
I don’t feel ethically required too unless specifically asked by a buyer. And I don’t expect sellers to tell me either unless I specifically ask.
but they may return it if it doesn't cac
That’s fine I don’t have a problem with that but maybe they will have better luck
If they have better luck, would you not be implying that CAC might not be perfectly consistent? If someone else got your CAC-rejected coin to sticker, would you then buy it?
That’s a great question as the coin would probably be a liner that could go either way. I guess I would be okay with it but not necessarily thrilled, as the coin is still eye 👁️ appealing and has a good look that I liked
I don’t doubt like the Bizzaro World there are a people there who just have to have his sticker on everything. But compared to here they are very scarce. I do have some CACG coins (adv display) and just move them cost plus.
Comments
I dont think it's worth arguing with this user anymore. The issue here is that the OP is so strong in his belief that everything needs to be CACed/PCGS/whatever. Of course, the obvious question is why not buy one of the thousands of CACed coins already. What is happening here is a "paper collector" who knows a little bit of market correction based on stickers/grades/companies that it has clouded the numismatic side of collecting. But, with regards to approval service and the seemingly lack of understanding what the issue is, I would point out a couple things for the last time.
The OP asked along the lines before what percentage of returns is acceptable to dealers. The answer is, there is no answer for that. The fact that the OP stated the actual return policy of no more than 1 per month from GC means that user actually looked up what return percentage was allowed. Seems like he thinks that 40% return is not that high? As others have mentioned as well with their stories/comments, I have collected coins for 35 years, and been a dealer for almost 30. I still collect at a high level, and I deal at what I consider a strong level. In all those years, and thousands and thousands of coins through my hands, I have returned less than 5 total coins in 35 years! The reason for this, is simply I researched the coin I was looking to buy, understood what each variety/date/mint mark etc had normally as factors with the coin, and operated from there. But at the end of the day, a successful numismatist must FIRST understand strongly the coin they are buying. No amount of plastic or stickers will teach that.
For the OP, as Mr Feld said, I am in no way angry as a dealer, I am trying to help you. I have commented multiple times on multiple topics started, all with similar advice. I may be speaking "stronger" now trying to get this information to be accepted. I am sorry if you feel that I am part of the "bullying" you suggest, that is not at all my personal intention. But protecting the hobby and trying to grow collectors most certainly is a passionate area for me.
I do buy coins without CAC if I like them and send them in for a sticker. So far they all passed but if one didn’t I would sell the coin and buy another one
You are telling me I have to be happy with a coin without a sticker which is forcing your opinion on me. I don’t have to be happy with a non-CAC coin, as I collect what I like just as you do as well. If you are okay with owning a C coin or coin with surface issues that’s all good as we should all collect what we like
Ive never submitted a coin to CAC? Are all my coins C level? Of course I focus on colonials and Exonumia, but by your definition all my coins are C level. If you believe PCGS can mis-grade a coin in general, then why would you not assume that there are C-level coins with a sticker? This belief of yours is called a "paper-collector" not a numismatist. Just my opinion.
Edited to add: And then again, explain why every coin you seem to buy is NON-CAC, then ask here if everyone thinks it would CAC, when they say their opinions, you return the coin? Why not buy one of the hundreds/thousands already CACed if you are so sure of their opinion?
One collector’s MS65 C coin is another collector’s MS64 A coin. If you paid MS64 money for it, who cares?
You keep saying that and it's an ignorant statement. Not all coins without a sticker are "C" coins. I collect seated quarters in the VF-AU range and have lots of non CAC A&B coins. I don't need JA's blessing to decide if I like a coin or not and neither do a lot of other collectors.
So ignoring the majority of the discussion here, on the topic of Franklin halves for type...
I would suggest one of the following:
A 1948 since it is the first year and frequently comes hammered, should be easy to find in 65 or better.
or an early 50's S mint, there is something about the luster on gem early S Franklins that is just really nice.
I find circulation strike Franklins after about 1955 to be generally boring. Your mileage may vary.
Collector, occasional seller
Chris you are totally right with this information, unfortunately it seems the OP is really not interested in the numismatic facts, which is what it is. There are many others who think the same way (mostly younger generation trying to make a quick buck, but almost always fail with the mindset). But, it's nice to see the numismatic facts, Im just not sure that will matter here.
Edited to add: My point being a collector who focused on the "paper" numbers of grades/registry will often have a lack or limited understanding of the actual coins they are buying. Me personally, I can't be behind buying "slabbed" books, which existed first in comic books, but now companies certify "books". If you can only buy the book itself, but not be able to read or look at it, how much knowledge can one really gain by that, other than just hoping their $100 purchase remains valued at $100.
Which takes us back to buying and returning. If you know that a coin needs to have a sticker for you to like it, buy a coin with a sticker. It shouldn't be the seller's burden if you buy a coin that from the start has not achieved the level of approval you require.
Sometime around 15-20 years ago, I bought an Indian cent and excitedly told @MFeld about it. I thought it was a really nice coin. He didn't think it was that special. So what did I do? I didn't return it. I told him we'd disagree on it. He didn't point out a flaw that I missed or some reason the coin was graded improperly, it just wasn't a look he preferred. Mark has been an invaluable resource for me for over two decades (feeling old, Dex?) and I greatly value his opinion and knowledge. I feel some pride when I make what I think is a good buy and he agrees, but sometimes (maybe not often) we differ. Of course, all this time later, I still have that cent, and I still think it's a great piece. What a shame it would have been if I did a 180 on my opinion of the coin just because that time it didn't get Mark's blessing.
Well said!! @Walkerlover you ask what you should do, or are confused about what advice you should follow. Every single answer has been THIS above. Numismatics is a hobby of course, but is also a group of people who agree on their love for this amazing hobby we have. The "angle" you come from, well, its just not that respected amongst people who have spent their lives (free time anyway) studying what they are buying. How will you ever grow as a coin collector following stickers and plastic? PCGS is not here to protect your decisions, they are here to give a backed up opinion of the grade. Same as CAC, NGC, ANACS etc. It's up to the collector to determine what is right for them, NOT the seller.
Best advice in the thread.
Everyone keeps saying buy a coin with a sticker. 95% of the Franklins in the $100 range do not have stickers for obvious economical reasons. So I try to find one I like and send it in to CAC. My other issue is I strongly prefer an older no prong holder as a requirement. Edited to add.
If I limit myself to a few CAC coins I will have a very difficult time finding a coin I like. If it so happens that I do find a cheaper CAC Franklin I like I will buy it but I may have a very hard time locating one and I don’t want to wait too long either. So I feel comfortable taking a risk if I see a coin without CAC come up first. I will try both avenues.
@Walkerlover but if you limit yourself to the so called "few" CAC coins in this range, why not hunt those out? Here lies the problem. Your last coins shows multiple coins CACed. Why not buy one of those. Doesnt sound so rare to me. The coin we are discussing here is maybe a $10 difference between CAC/non CAC. Its too low valued where the CAC would matter?
What do you mean 800. I specifically want a MS 65 PCGS with great eye 👁️ appeal, and also I neglected to mention an old blue or green holder. I am willing to wait a few months if necessary for the right coin. Edited to add. I will harder to look for a CAC coin
OK. Do your thing. I have been giving you some advice that will help you in your numismatic journey. You can do whatever you want, but just remember, the approach you have done has not been well received here, for reasons that are EXTREMELY obvious. Again, you are welcome to do what you want, but you will not gain any respect here in this group with your current strategy. As I said so many times before, if you want to continue that, maybe look for another venue to "show off" and comment.
But you weren't on this one that you bought and returned right? Dont you see the problem here?
Please clarify I am not sure I understand but I will take your advice and look harder for a CAC coin
You didn't use that criteria on THIS coin from the beginning. Look, Im done here without an update, if you want a certain coin in a certain grade that is CACed with a certain holder, then why not buy or look for that coin. Instead, you ask here after you have bought a coin to see if it will meet those criteria (ones that didn't meet your standards before). See the problem? Just go out and buy one of the dozens that are already CACed. Why is that so hard to understand. You are not being right here, buy your own coin and hope it CACs if that is so important, but you return it if we (the forum) points out issues. So what not just wait and buy a CACed $100 coin. Your costs are very little on the coins you mention.
Thank you for the advice. Appreciate your efforts to educate me on some of these things. But if I see a great coin which I properly screen with a seller and my own knowledge of what a 65 should look like a may take a shot with CAC and submit it. If it fails I will eat the cost and sell it. I have had good luck with selecting candidates for CAC that pass.
You're not taking any risk. At the slightest whiff of risk, you turn around and return the coin to the seller. That's the problem.
There are valid reasons to return a coin, but you thinking that the coin won't upgrade or CAC isn't one of them. The percentage of coins you return for that reason should be zero.
My biggest challenge is not buying an overgraded coin. I have learned from CAC failures about PVC detection, hairlines, and somewhat about high point friction, surface issues so to speak. But I buy only blazing luster without spots or negative eye appeal so I think that helps my CAC candidates have a better chance
Agreed. If I purchase a coin and I like the coin I will take my own money risk and send it in. If no CAC I sell it back on the Bay and eat any losses
Looking without seeing and listening without hearing. I don’t think you can fix that.
So what is the average percentage return rate that good sellers experience on EBay during the year. Do you have any idea? Curious to know.
But the thing is again if you are so sure CAC is the end all thought, why not just from the beginning buy a CAC coin. By your thoughts, ANY SINGLE CAC coin will work for you because you did no work, who cares what the coin looks like…etc…do you see the point here? If you don’t, well, we can’t help you.
The implication of your question, it would appear, is that if you were buying from "good sellers" you would not have to return a coin. It sounds to me like you are still looking for ways to deflect responsibility.
No this is a legitimate question to learn about the EBay model. Simple stated for a good seller with a near 100% approval rating what percentage of coins on average will be returned from his sales. Just want to learn since we are on this topic. your best estimate or your own experience if you are a dealer. No trick question
I've had zero returns over the past two years.
And I’ve had none in the past 12 years. It must say something right? Edited to add, 0 total coins not returned have been CAC
You have totally been able to see the issue now with multiple threads and literally hundreds of people telling you your approach is wrong over the multiple threads on the EXACT same thing for the last year:
Either you think we are ALL crazy, or maybe the more obvious thought it that you yourself may be missing something here. Geez, we are trying to help but I’ve honestly never met someone so oblivious to the obvious truth. Take a step back, READ AND UNDERSTAND the advice you have gotten; and it will make sense. If you recall many of us telling you to take a step back, ingest the advice, and then use it to your advantage is almost so obvious it’s getting annoying. Do your thing; but do it outside of here if you plan to continue this silly posting/nonsense.
Absolutely my next post will be a great Franklin that I definitely kept for my collection to be proud of to round out my type set. I am waiting patiently now for exactly the right coin Appreciate your patience explaining this to me. Thank You 😊
Here we go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/375313856013
MS65 CAC in an old PCGS holder, with pretty nice luster to my eyes. I've never had an issue with Kearney's pics being inaccurate. Didn't seem to take too long to find, despite how much the OP tried to say it was. Granted, it's above $100.
Here's one in the $150 range:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/375313856013
While these may not meet the "eye appeal standards" of the OP, I'd suggest he consider that I was able to come up with two coins in his requirement range in under five minutes. These coins aren't difficult to find.
Coin Photographer.
you just told us in this thread about a SLQ that didn't sticker and you said you sold it. you indicated it was AU not MS
you did say you sold it but we also know you return coins. why not just sell all of them that don't cac?
seller's photos.
they are posted in full size from the bay, and if you right-click on the picture and "open image in new tab" you'll see the jumbo pics.
with such great pics, you are getting "what's described" not "what's disguised." it's bothersome to think you initiate returns in similar situations despite getting what's pictured.
looks good for the grade
I swear the obverse did not have that great luster in hand although the reverse had very attractive rim tone more close to the photo. Please understand. Thanks
Love me some irony
I sell a few thousand coins on eBay per year. Not counting an occasional and ridiculous SNAD case invariably complaining about something in the description and/or photos, two a year would be really high. Zero or maybe one would be much more likely.
I’m curious—do you state outright in the listing that the coin failed to CAC?
A few months? There are coins I could buy dozens of every day, yet I’ve had them on my want list for YEARS waiting to find the right example. If you want something specific, patience is a necessity. If you have high standards, the last thing you can do is also set a time limit by which you must buy a coin.
See> @airplanenut said:
I average about 2 per year. Usually one of them was my fault, i.e. I missed something describing a raw coin.
I don’t feel ethically required too unless specifically asked by a buyer. And I don’t expect sellers to tell me either unless I specifically ask.
but they may return it if it doesn't cac
That’s fine I don’t have a problem with that but maybe they will have better luck
If they have better luck, would you not be implying that CAC might not be perfectly consistent? If someone else got your CAC-rejected coin to sticker, would you then buy it?
Totally agree here. Post-1954 Franklins are horrible compared to the earlier years.
That’s a great question as the coin would probably be a liner that could go either way. I guess I would be okay with it but not necessarily thrilled, as the coin is still eye 👁️ appealing and has a good look that I liked
I don’t doubt like the Bizzaro World there are a people there who just have to have his sticker on everything. But compared to here they are very scarce. I do have some CACG coins (adv display) and just move them cost plus.