Not for nothing...but as a kid I bought many economical sliders in the '70s and '80s...that were identified as such...and that ultimately slabbed 30 years later in the 63-64 range.
A few others initially came back as Unc details or cleaned...and after being dipped and resubmitted a couple of years later...came back graded just fine.
@Klif50 said:
And for a long time the Greysheet has Unc, BU and I think Gem prices. When they added the numbers and we had 60 and 65 there was a huge jump in the price column between the two grades and there was a wide disagreement on what a 65 really was. Many sliders were being priced and some times being sold at the 65 price. Wild west show for real.
Back in those days a Morgan Dollar with a clean cheek (few marks) was called “MS-65.” One with fewer marks was an “MS-63.” The dogs that might have had some claim to Unc. were called “MS-60.” There were no 61, 62 and 64 grades. Gem Uncs were called “MS-67.”
This was a no questions asked MS-65 Morgan Dollar in the mid 1970s. What do you think of it now?
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
In 1980 as a high school senior I made $1300 in one day buying and selling at a local Olympia WA show. Biggest hit that I recall was buying a 1913-S type 1 buffalo from one table and selling it for $600 as a gem across the room.
Collectors who got their start in coin collecting in the '60's and '70's, for the most part, LEARNED how to grade for themselves. The only numbers collectors dealt with were, when buying, "how much do you want? or, when selling, "how much will you give me?" A slab was a table used for laying a body on in a morgue.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Shortly after I got out of the Navy in late 1989, I used to scour the local shows in and around Seattle (and did the same when the ANA came that Summer of 1990), buying "sliders" and lower Unc's that hadn't been graded yet.
Mostly Walkers, Standing Lib's and Barber stuff. Usually could turn a pretty good profit, sometimes by upselling it for a better grade than I bought it at, sometimes because I knew who was buying ... always within a few hours or a few weeks.
Of the coins I kept in my collection from that time, some went for grading in the early 2000's. Some graded 55 and 58 (as I had purchased them), and some got graded as Unc's (62 through 64). I also had some Choice and Gem Mercuries, which I started squirrelling away here and there. I discovered a few with problems too, but only a couple. In the end, I guess I probably did okay, and I know I certainly learned a few things from back then. It certainly was a different time.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
First big show for me was ANA 1970 in St. Louis. Before that my one wanted to buy purchase was a good grade 16-d dime. Could not afford one in the mid 60's when I wanted one. Looking back now on that time maybe just as well. Could of got stuck with a counterfeit.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Vaguely in the mid 80s before slabs were showing up at my local show. Lots of dealers saying things like “shine it up and it’ll be BU” (actual quote) and people selling baking soda scrubbed halves for top dollar. My mom bought one in those and was so happy with it. Later in life when I learned more I looked at it again and just cringed. Stripped of all life and desirability. Should have been a $5 coin, honestly.
In the early 1970’s, we had a couple of local shows per year at the Masonic Hall and/or a Holiday Inn. I was a kid then and my strongest memory is of the stacks and stacks of Silver Dollars and Walking Liberty Halves. Seeing those lustrous WL Halves glowing under all of those hot, bright lights, made me fall in love with them.
These were also the waning days of the BU roll craze and dealers were still purporting their investment potential.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
First big show for me was ANA 1970 in St. Louis. Before that my one wanted to buy purchase was a good grade 16-d dime. Could not afford one in the mid 60's when I wanted one. Looking back now on that time maybe just as well. Could of got stuck with a counterfeit.
The 1970 ANA in St. Louis was also my first big show. Those were the days.
Absolutely...I think I remember, but I am 72 now and it was 60 years ago that I went to my first show, the big pre-Christmas show hosted annually by the local coin club. There were no slabs then. It was about 20 years later before ANACS slabs started showing up, Now there are numerous raw coins for sale at both the spring and pre-Xmas shows, the only coins I will even consider are in PCGS slabs.
1964 to 1986 first long beach show 1964
Around 1982 inflation running away under pres. JIMMY CART ER no one wanted coins. CD's were paying 15 to16%
One dealer I remember could not sell anything at Long Beach show. Begged me to buy something
He said how do I get rid of all this "sh**. He was panic'd . Other dealers were also. It was a very weird feeling on the Bourse . I felt it! And still remember it. A friend pumped large amounts of money into Federal Gov. Bonds paying
16%. Interest. When interest rates came down under Pres. Regan he made a fortune. As his 16% bonds went way up on the open market.
Lots of overgraded coins everywhere then. Dealers bought at one grade sold at another . TPG grading was supposed to cure that . At least that's how it was sold. Very few grading help resources available then . Dealers generally ignored these. Ie: Brown and Dunn., Photograde later.
Today we have "Market Grading" slabs. I personally don't see much difference between then and now under this concept as slider creep continues, and the old sliders then are now marketed as ms62's to( MS66 's no less) are out there. Subjective Handling effect causes -- are now parsed in alot of different ways to allow for this. I would have much higher Registry sets if I bought the label.
I certainly remember them. I live in a small town (maybe 900-1000) at that time. we had a small club that met every month. We had a meeting, a swap meet and then we would sell and trade among ourselves.Fortunately most everyone knew me (and my dad who would drive me in to town). I consider myself very lucky the show was small and dad and I knew everyone and I don't ever remember conterfeits, but I think I might a cleaned one every so often. All in all it was great as we could look the coins closely. At the time I subscribed to Numismatic News the Red Book so I started to learn about grading. They certainly were good times in the mid to late 60's.
@Klif50 said:
And for a long time the Greysheet has Unc, BU and I think Gem prices. When they added the numbers and we had 60 and 65 there was a huge jump in the price column between the two grades and there was a wide disagreement on what a 65 really was. Many sliders were being priced and some times being sold at the 65 price. Wild west show for real.
Back in those days a Morgan Dollar with a clean cheek (few marks) was called “MS-65.” One with fewer marks was an “MS-63.” The dogs that might have had some claim to Unc. were called “MS-60.” There were no 61, 62 and 64 grades. Gem Uncs were called “MS-67.”
.
.
For reference here are the Greysheet / CDN transition points / dates.
August 8, 1975 (and sometime before) this is the Morgan 'singles' column. Note at the top the 'choice BU' or MS65 and then the Gem MS70 command more and the Average Unc less.
.
The following week, August 15, 1975 the announcement of added column in Red.
.
One of those additions is in the Morgan with MS60 and MS65 (and BU rolls MS65).
.
Then in 1979 the announcement of the MS65 Prooflike Morgan (the BU rolls goes below / side).
.
.
September 26, 1980 the announcement of the addition of the MS63 to dollars.
.
The dollars with 60, 63, 65 and prooflike
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
First big show for me was ANA 1970 in St. Louis. Before that my one wanted to buy purchase was a good grade 16-d dime. Could not afford one in the mid 60's when I wanted one. Looking back now on that time maybe just as well. Could of got stuck with a counterfeit.
The 1970 ANA in St. Louis was also my first big show. Those were the days.
I was fortunate to fly down from Dayton,Ohio with Ed Fleischman from Coin World. He showed me the lay of the land as it was my first large show attendance. He let me tag along with him as he wrote a series of exhibit articles for CW. That was his assignment. I remember the 94-s dime on display,some coins or medals that went to the moon,BEP display with high denomination notes,uncut sheets. Was a great experience. Learned and saw much. Will have to dig out the photos I took to refresh my memory more. Ed no longer with us, but thanks Ed.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
I remember that greysheet style and going to shows when I was a younger guy. No slabs, couple of certitied coins with anab certificates. american numismatic authentication bureau
I remember my dad taking me to some shows in NJ, in the 1960's and just letting me walk around. I was about 7 years old. My first coin was an 1891 quarter in F- for $2.25. Same day bought and 1860-O Half dime in G for about $2.00. I still have these coins, as they are among the most sentimental.
Looking back what made it more special is that he had very little interest in coins, but appreciated that I did. He did pick some coins out of circulation in the 1940s that I still have.
I think my recent grading experience is indicative of "coins before slabs"...
I just got my grades back for 15 raw Unc. Liberty Nickels purchased at a show in 1992-1993 and kept in a Dansco album until I recently sent them in for slabbing.
Of the 15 coins, 14 did came back as MS/PF, with one as Details/Cleaned...but that coin was actually noted as potentially cleaned when purchased...so no big shock.
Of the remaining 14 coins, 3 came in with the exact noted numerical MS grade, 3 more came in as proof rather than MS, 4 came in one MS grade higher and 4 came in one MS grade lower...so a "mixed" bag, but not at all unusual in my experience.
I attended many shows long before slabs made their way to the floor. It took a lot longer to make the rounds than it seems to take these days with slabs in every case.
Nope. Did not start coin collecting till my thirties. SLABS were in by then. Dabbled with Comics in my teens. My father and I went deep into sports cards in my twenties. Big NASCAR fan until Dale died.
My grandma took me to my first show in the late 70's. I was 8 or 9 years old. Everything was in 2X2 flips or in books and there was usually a junk bin. I always searched that for a worn out IHC for my whitman folder.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
Comments
Not for nothing...but as a kid I bought many economical sliders in the '70s and '80s...that were identified as such...and that ultimately slabbed 30 years later in the 63-64 range.
A few others initially came back as Unc details or cleaned...and after being dipped and resubmitted a couple of years later...came back graded just fine.
So make of that as you wish...
Back in those days a Morgan Dollar with a clean cheek (few marks) was called “MS-65.” One with fewer marks was an “MS-63.” The dogs that might have had some claim to Unc. were called “MS-60.” There were no 61, 62 and 64 grades. Gem Uncs were called “MS-67.”
This was a no questions asked MS-65 Morgan Dollar in the mid 1970s. What do you think of it now?
I remember the Long Beach Show quite well back in the 1970s
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
In 1980 as a high school senior I made $1300 in one day buying and selling at a local Olympia WA show. Biggest hit that I recall was buying a 1913-S type 1 buffalo from one table and selling it for $600 as a gem across the room.
Collectors who got their start in coin collecting in the '60's and '70's, for the most part, LEARNED how to grade for themselves. The only numbers collectors dealt with were, when buying, "how much do you want? or, when selling, "how much will you give me?" A slab was a table used for laying a body on in a morgue.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Not sure I ever was at a show with no slabs, but certainly for most of what I was buying, graded coins were not really a thing yet.
Similar experience to @RichR and maybe in some ways to @tradedollarnut 's story.
Shortly after I got out of the Navy in late 1989, I used to scour the local shows in and around Seattle (and did the same when the ANA came that Summer of 1990), buying "sliders" and lower Unc's that hadn't been graded yet.
Mostly Walkers, Standing Lib's and Barber stuff. Usually could turn a pretty good profit, sometimes by upselling it for a better grade than I bought it at, sometimes because I knew who was buying ... always within a few hours or a few weeks.
Of the coins I kept in my collection from that time, some went for grading in the early 2000's. Some graded 55 and 58 (as I had purchased them), and some got graded as Unc's (62 through 64). I also had some Choice and Gem Mercuries, which I started squirrelling away here and there. I discovered a few with problems too, but only a couple. In the end, I guess I probably did okay, and I know I certainly learned a few things from back then. It certainly was a different time.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
First big show for me was ANA 1970 in St. Louis. Before that my one wanted to buy purchase was a good grade 16-d dime. Could not afford one in the mid 60's when I wanted one. Looking back now on that time maybe just as well. Could of got stuck with a counterfeit.
Vaguely in the mid 80s before slabs were showing up at my local show. Lots of dealers saying things like “shine it up and it’ll be BU” (actual quote) and people selling baking soda scrubbed halves for top dollar. My mom bought one in those and was so happy with it. Later in life when I learned more I looked at it again and just cringed. Stripped of all life and desirability. Should have been a $5 coin, honestly.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
In the early 1970’s, we had a couple of local shows per year at the Masonic Hall and/or a Holiday Inn. I was a kid then and my strongest memory is of the stacks and stacks of Silver Dollars and Walking Liberty Halves. Seeing those lustrous WL Halves glowing under all of those hot, bright lights, made me fall in love with them.
These were also the waning days of the BU roll craze and dealers were still purporting their investment potential.
The 1970 ANA in St. Louis was also my first big show. Those were the days.
Absolutely...I think I remember, but I am 72 now and it was 60 years ago that I went to my first show, the big pre-Christmas show hosted annually by the local coin club. There were no slabs then. It was about 20 years later before ANACS slabs started showing up, Now there are numerous raw coins for sale at both the spring and pre-Xmas shows, the only coins I will even consider are in PCGS slabs.
1964 to 1986 first long beach show 1964
Around 1982 inflation running away under pres. JIMMY CART ER no one wanted coins. CD's were paying 15 to16%
One dealer I remember could not sell anything at Long Beach show. Begged me to buy something
He said how do I get rid of all this "sh**. He was panic'd . Other dealers were also. It was a very weird feeling on the Bourse . I felt it! And still remember it. A friend pumped large amounts of money into Federal Gov. Bonds paying
16%. Interest. When interest rates came down under Pres. Regan he made a fortune. As his 16% bonds went way up on the open market.
Lots of overgraded coins everywhere then. Dealers bought at one grade sold at another . TPG grading was supposed to cure that . At least that's how it was sold. Very few grading help resources available then . Dealers generally ignored these. Ie: Brown and Dunn., Photograde later.
Today we have "Market Grading" slabs. I personally don't see much difference between then and now under this concept as slider creep continues, and the old sliders then are now marketed as ms62's to( MS66 's no less) are out there. Subjective Handling effect causes -- are now parsed in alot of different ways to allow for this. I would have much higher Registry sets if I bought the label.
Yes, in the '70s. What I remember most was pungent cigar smoke.
How about the hotdogs mustard drippings on dealers shirts.
The big joke of the time. As to how you could identify a dealer.
I certainly remember them. I live in a small town (maybe 900-1000) at that time. we had a small club that met every month. We had a meeting, a swap meet and then we would sell and trade among ourselves.Fortunately most everyone knew me (and my dad who would drive me in to town). I consider myself very lucky the show was small and dad and I knew everyone and I don't ever remember conterfeits, but I think I might a cleaned one every so often. All in all it was great as we could look the coins closely. At the time I subscribed to Numismatic News the Red Book so I started to learn about grading. They certainly were good times in the mid to late 60's.
deleted
.
.
For reference here are the Greysheet / CDN transition points / dates.
August 8, 1975 (and sometime before) this is the Morgan 'singles' column. Note at the top the 'choice BU' or MS65 and then the Gem MS70 command more and the Average Unc less.
.
The following week, August 15, 1975 the announcement of added column in Red.
.
One of those additions is in the Morgan with MS60 and MS65 (and BU rolls MS65).
.
Then in 1979 the announcement of the MS65 Prooflike Morgan (the BU rolls goes below / side).
.
.
September 26, 1980 the announcement of the addition of the MS63 to dollars.
.
The dollars with 60, 63, 65 and prooflike
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I was fortunate to fly down from Dayton,Ohio with Ed Fleischman from Coin World. He showed me the lay of the land as it was my first large show attendance. He let me tag along with him as he wrote a series of exhibit articles for CW. That was his assignment. I remember the 94-s dime on display,some coins or medals that went to the moon,BEP display with high denomination notes,uncut sheets. Was a great experience. Learned and saw much. Will have to dig out the photos I took to refresh my memory more. Ed no longer with us, but thanks Ed.
I remember that greysheet style and going to shows when I was a younger guy. No slabs, couple of certitied coins with anab certificates. american numismatic authentication bureau
I remember my dad taking me to some shows in NJ, in the 1960's and just letting me walk around. I was about 7 years old. My first coin was an 1891 quarter in F- for $2.25. Same day bought and 1860-O Half dime in G for about $2.00. I still have these coins, as they are among the most sentimental.
Looking back what made it more special is that he had very little interest in coins, but appreciated that I did. He did pick some coins out of circulation in the 1940s that I still have.
I think my recent grading experience is indicative of "coins before slabs"...
I just got my grades back for 15 raw Unc. Liberty Nickels purchased at a show in 1992-1993 and kept in a Dansco album until I recently sent them in for slabbing.
Of the 15 coins, 14 did came back as MS/PF, with one as Details/Cleaned...but that coin was actually noted as potentially cleaned when purchased...so no big shock.
Of the remaining 14 coins, 3 came in with the exact noted numerical MS grade, 3 more came in as proof rather than MS, 4 came in one MS grade higher and 4 came in one MS grade lower...so a "mixed" bag, but not at all unusual in my experience.
What say you?
Yep, I remember coin shows before slabs.
I recall most of the dealers were old guys, with over graded and over priced coins.
Much more even and fair playing field with the slabs.
Sure - lots of fun.
I attended many shows long before slabs made their way to the floor. It took a lot longer to make the rounds than it seems to take these days with slabs in every case.
I'm more amazed by how many coins I WAS actually able to assemble in the days BEFORE THE INTERNET!!!
Nope. Did not start coin collecting till my thirties. SLABS were in by then. Dabbled with Comics in my teens. My father and I went deep into sports cards in my twenties. Big NASCAR fan until Dale died.
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
Gimbels coin counter in the late '60's/early '70's as a kid is fond memories.
I never even heard of a coin show back then.
Marcmoish...if you haunted Gimbels in Manhattan, Yonkers, Valley Stream or Roosevelt Field...we may have crossed paths!!!
My grandma took me to my first show in the late 70's. I was 8 or 9 years old. Everything was in 2X2 flips or in books and there was usually a junk bin. I always searched that for a worn out IHC for my whitman folder.