@80sOPC said:
50k in cards can cost 5-10k depending on what you have and take 90-120 days if using an auction house.
I always thought that the buyer's premium charged by auction houses covered their services fully. Are auction houses actually paid by both sellers and buyers? If so, that seems like highway robbery to me!
@80sOPC said:
50k in cards can cost 5-10k depending on what you have and take 90-120 days if using an auction house.
I always thought that the buyer's premium charged by auction houses covered their services fully. Are auction houses actually paid by both sellers and buyers? If so, that seems like highway robbery to me!
Seller's Fee Percentage depends on Auction House and what if any deal you are able to cut with them. But yep you are correct it is mostly Highway Robbery.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
i have never used an auction house, but for expensive cards, it seems almost the best way of doing without a mano to mano transaction. hard to trust ebay, unless you know exactly who you are dealing with.
A reputable auction house such as Heritage Auctions should have a lot of eye balls …and should maximize sale price. I have consigned 27 cards to its January Winter Auction. So…I will see how I do.
@80sOPC said:
Like any investment it depends on when you got in, and your cost to get out. Which can be quite high in the case of sports cards.
I can sell 50k of the SP500 - which is up nearly 20% YTD - Monday at market open for 9 bucks. 50k in cards can cost 5-10k depending on what you have and take 90-120 days if using an auction house.
Yep. There are reasons Buffet and the like don't have Trading Card holdings.
I don't know about Mr Buffett, but I completely disagree with that comment.
Lot's of sports loving millionaires out there. They are only buying the best of the best. "Blue chip" cards can make you a lot of money, as an investment, yes, harder to liquidate if you are in a hurry, but a solid long term investment.
Diversifying your investments is always a good plan, and PSA 10 Ruth's Mantles, Clemente's, Ryan's etc wouldn't be selling for such INSANE prices if the wealthy investors weren't involved.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
They will for sure get a lot of eyeballs and in exchange take 1/5th of the sale, and even more as a percentage of the profit (assuming your cost basis isn’t zero). It’s incredible how expensive it is to buy and sell cards.
@mintonlypls said:
A reputable auction house such as Heritage Auctions should have a lot of eye balls …and should maximize sale price. I have consigned 27 cards to its January Winter Auction. So…I will see how I do.
@80sOPC said:
50k in cards can cost 5-10k depending on what you have and take 90-120 days if using an auction house.
I always thought that the buyer's premium charged by auction houses covered their services fully. Are auction houses actually paid by both sellers and buyers? If so, that seems like highway robbery to me!
I would never use an auction house that takes 20% from buyer and 20% from seller. No auction house consistently delivers record breaking prices. In most cases, you'd make out better listing it slightly below market price on eBay and paying 12-15%. For expensive cards ($10k+), AH's are the way to go because you have a better pool of buyers and eBay puts up roadblocks when bidding over $10k (pre approval required for each item you want to bid on). Also, AH's will lower their rates significantly for high $ cards.
For Heritage Auctions…I receive the entire amount before the buyers premium as well as 5% of the 20% buyers premium. So…it is close to EBay w/more eyeballs. Auction houses such as Heritage promote the items which is not done on EBay.
Mike High still charges a 20% buyers premium which might go to the auction house or a percentage of that buyers premium. You would have to consign a very expensive item for the auction house not to receive a cut of the amount that the buyer pays for that item (final bid + 20% buyers premium). An auction house does not work for free! No one does…
@mintonlypls said:
For Heritage Auctions…I receive the entire amount before the buyers premium as well as 5% of the 20% buyers premium. So…it is close to EBay w/more eyeballs. Auction houses such as Heritage promote the items which is not done on EBay.
So you sell card for $10K, buyer pays $12K, you net $10K plus $100 and auction house nets $1900.
Yes, that’s how it works. At least , I receive some amount of the $2000. eBay would take $1560 off the final bid for an identical item (13% off $12,000)…but as I see the advantage with Heritage Auctions is that the visibility for the items with Heritage Auctions is much better than eBay or strictly sports card auction houses since Heritage has offices worldwide …and therefore, many more eyeballs see an item.
“Vintage high end” refers to something that 99.99 percent of collectors don’t think about. You’re talking about a different class of people. Money is never the issue with these collectors.
High end vintage in the categories that I collect is down (deservedly so). I’m sitting on the sidelines and waiting for contagion. To the dealers/collectors, you did it to yourselves….
@mintonlypls said:
For Heritage Auctions…I receive the entire amount before the buyers premium as well as 5% of the 20% buyers premium. So…it is close to EBay w/more eyeballs. Auction houses such as Heritage promote the items which is not done on EBay.
So you sell card for $10K, buyer pays $12K, you net $10K plus $100 and auction house nets $1900.
No, you net $10,500 if you are getting back 5% of the BP. (10K X 1.05=10,500)
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Never pay a commission to an auction company to sell your stuff. Make sure that has been eliminated from your consignment agreement
Always negotiate for a piece of the standard 20% Buyers Premium. If you are consigning over some juicy stuff you should at a minimum get the Hammer Price + 5% = 1.05
If you are consigning juicy high ticket/feature item stuff push for even higher. Push for 1.10 +
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
I agree.
No matter what happens next fall, '24 will be VERY different than '23. For sure.
They'll crank down rates sometime next spring/summer. That will open up a ton of money sitting on the sides just waiting for timing. This is one reason I'm considering selling my entire PC next year, but I'm going to wait and see how it goes through June.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
The stock market is be up and so is everything else. I just came back from Walmart food shopping and it truly feels I get less but the price is higher and higher. Have you seen the price of the sports cards in Walmart and Target. I think with the very high price of the cards they are not selling like they have is years past. The shelves are so full of cards and have not been bare in a very very long time. In years past I would find the shelves with cards bare very often.
Smoke and mirrors. The economy is not good. Hard to find good employees. Anything tied to Real Estate is in the tank. Retail stores are closing left and right, Lots of small business can't afford to hire people or pay rent. But since I have stocks I was happy it went up.
The market and cards values are definitely tied together.
Not sure on rates. People have a short memory but the Fed rate has an.average 5.71% from 1971 to 2023 and the 30 year mortgage rate has an average of 7.74%. Nearly free money was not going to last forever. Inflation is difficult to curb.
The cost of labor is up forever and we all will have to pay for that. Wages have been outpacing inflation for years. That has shifted. I don’t think inflation is in the rear view mirror yet.
Everyone is going to chime in with their own personal experiences, but I've never been better off than I am currently, knock on wood.
I'm making more money at my job than I ever have. My 401K balances are higher than they've ever been. My personal investments are higher than they've ever been. My paid off home is worth more than it has ever been. My paid off car would be worth more than any other used car that I've ever traded in. My cards are worth more than they've ever been...
I just hope my health holds up, because that's by far the most valuable thing we have...So far, so good...
I bought my home in 2000, and I recall mortgage rates were in the 5.75% to 7% range at that time, and I don't remember anyone crying like they do today about those levels. Those were considered good rates. Ask someone that bought a home in the early 80s. 15% or more was not uncommon for a mortgage back then.
My American Century money market fund where I stashed my short term cash savings was paying me over 6% when I opened it in 1996. There was a long stretch of well over a decade that the interest rate was under 1%, and I mean well under that, like 0.09 or 0.01 or whatever. It's currently 5.23%, easily the best it's been since before 9/11/01, but still well short of what it was in the 90s.
If you want to solve the worker problem, it's going to require at least some increased immigration, legal or otherwise, which a lot of people don't want to even discuss.
Retail stores are closing because the world has changed. Everyone buys everything online and has it delivered.
People need to realize that the internet, and especially the use of smart phones, changed the world permanently.
@brad31 said:
Not sure on rates. People have a short memory but the Fed rate has an.average 5.71% from 1971 to 2023 and the 30 year mortgage rate has an average of 7.74%. Nearly free money was not going to last forever. Inflation is difficult to curb.
The cost of labor is up forever and we all will have to pay for that. Wages have been outpacing inflation for years. That has shifted. I don’t think inflation is in the rear view mirror yet.
I don't think that most folks fully understand the full effects of inflation. For example if everything in life you need to buy goes up 10% in price, and your card collection increases 10% in price, all things being equal, your card collection really didn't gain any value, even though on paper it appears that way.
The killer of course is inflation occurring and card values or whatever collectible it is, doesn't rise in the same percentage. Same as the previous example, if inflation rises 10% but your cards remain the same, then you've lost value.
Fortunately, at least with a good number of key, high grade, PSA cards, the values over the years have generally outpaced inflation, and in some cases have been spectacular investments.
No doubt there are some people who have done better, but far more are worse off, thus the declining card prices. In 2021, after all the stimuluses were handed out card prices went through the roof, but for the last year and a half at least most prices are down, some significantly. The Real Estate market is practically zilch or worse. Affordable new home construction no longer exists because of regulations, costs of land, etc.
I bought my first house (interest rate was 7%) for 86,000. Nice first house split level, totally finished. That same house today (30 years later) would sell for $225,000 ( same rate 7%). Median income where I live is around $45,000 up about $6,000 from 1993. You do the math. People can't afford basic simple living.
These same people are the ones that help make the card industry thrive. Losing them, hurts the card industry. Personally I am with countdouglas, I'm doing ok, but my town/city is not doing better.
@countdouglas said:
Everyone is going to chime in with their own personal experiences, but I've never been better off than I am currently, knock on wood.
I'm making more money at my job than I ever have. My 401K balances are higher than they've ever been. My personal investments are higher than they've ever been. My paid off home is worth more than it has ever been. My paid off car would be worth more than any other used car that I've ever traded in. My cards are worth more than they've ever been...
I just hope my health holds up, because that's by far the most valuable thing we have...So far, so good...
I bought my home in 2000, and I recall mortgage rates were in the 5.75% to 7% range at that time, and I don't remember anyone crying like they do today about those levels. Those were considered good rates. Ask someone that bought a home in the early 80s. 15% or more was not uncommon for a mortgage back then.
My American Century money market fund where I stashed my short term cash savings was paying me over 6% when I opened it in 1996. There was a long stretch of well over a decade that the interest rate was under 1%, and I mean well under that, like 0.09 or 0.01 or whatever. It's currently 5.23%, easily the best it's been since before 9/11/01, but still well short of what it was in the 90s.
If you want to solve the worker problem, it's going to require at least some increased immigration, legal or otherwise, which a lot of people don't want to even discuss.
Retail stores are closing because the world has changed. Everyone buys everything online and has it delivered.
People need to realize that the internet, and especially the use of smart phones, changed the world permanently.
Is that like THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER. The prices of food have gone crazy high and gas is still higher then it was a few years ago. It really is the middle to lower class that get screwed. Millions of people coming over the border and getting so much free stuff like the very poor get lots of free stuff. The low to middle class who make too much but yet can not afford medical ins. auto ins. doctors, food etc... . The economy is not good.
Never pay a commission to an auction company to sell your stuff. Make sure that has been eliminated from your consignment agreement
Always negotiate for a piece of the standard 20% Buyers Premium. If you are consigning over some juicy stuff you should at a minimum get the Hammer Price + 5% = 1.05
If you are consigning juicy high ticket/feature item stuff push for even higher. Push for 1.10 +
Uffdah, do they usually look at per piece or total of consignment? Would one 50k piece be easier for me to move the needle rather that 10 5k pieces? Or about the same?
Thx
@countdouglas said:
Everyone is going to chime in with their own personal experiences, but I've never been better off than I am currently, knock on wood.
I'm making more money at my job than I ever have. My 401K balances are higher than they've ever been. My personal investments are higher than they've ever been. My paid off home is worth more than it has ever been. My paid off car would be worth more than any other used car that I've ever traded in. My cards are worth more than they've ever been...
I just hope my health holds up, because that's by far the most valuable thing we have...So far, so good...
I bought my home in 2000, and I recall mortgage rates were in the 5.75% to 7% range at that time, and I don't remember anyone crying like they do today about those levels. Those were considered good rates. Ask someone that bought a home in the early 80s. 15% or more was not uncommon for a mortgage back then.
My American Century money market fund where I stashed my short term cash savings was paying me over 6% when I opened it in 1996. There was a long stretch of well over a decade that the interest rate was under 1%, and I mean well under that, like 0.09 or 0.01 or whatever. It's currently 5.23%, easily the best it's been since before 9/11/01, but still well short of what it was in the 90s.
If you want to solve the worker problem, it's going to require at least some increased immigration, legal or otherwise, which a lot of people don't want to even discuss.
Retail stores are closing because the world has changed. Everyone buys everything online and has it delivered.
People need to realize that the internet, and especially the use of smart phones, changed the world permanently.
Is that like THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER. The prices of food have gone crazy high and gas is still higher then it was a few years ago. It really is the middle to lower class that get screwed. Millions of people coming over the border and getting so much free stuff like the very poor get lots of free stuff. The low to middle class who make too much but yet can not afford medical ins. auto ins. doctors, food etc... . The economy is not good.
It's not unexpected with a board full of millionaires, to hear such out of touch statements like, what this country needs is MORE illegal immigrants amid a record breaking illegal immigration crisis.
And then to boast in detail how all facets of their financial life are better than ever in an economy where 63% of Americans could not cover a $500 unexpected expense.
@brad31 said:
Not sure on rates. People have a short memory but the Fed rate has an.average 5.71% from 1971 to 2023 and the 30 year mortgage rate has an average of 7.74%. Nearly free money was not going to last forever. Inflation is difficult to curb.
The cost of labor is up forever and we all will have to pay for that. Wages have been outpacing inflation for years. That has shifted. I don’t think inflation is in the rear view mirror yet.
I don't think that most folks fully understand the full effects of inflation. For example if everything in life you need to buy goes up 10% in price, and your card collection increases 10% in price, all things being equal, your card collection really didn't gain any value, even though on paper it appears that way.
The killer of course is inflation occurring and card values or whatever collectible it is, doesn't rise in the same percentage. Same as the previous example, if inflation rises 10% but your cards remain the same, then you've lost value.
Fortunately, at least with a good number of key, high grade, PSA cards, the values over the years have generally outpaced inflation, and in some cases have been spectacular investments.
For your example, you're probably actually losing money. Here's why. Let's say you paid $1000 for a card. Inflation increases 10% and the card's value increases 10% to $1100. Since the card kept pace with inflation, you are basically at break even. Yet the IRS considers this a $100 gain with taxes due. You would have been better off having the card stay at the purchase price and be able to see it without taxable gains. Of course I'm ignoring selling costs in this example but it makes my point in a simple way.
@countdouglas said:
Everyone is going to chime in with their own personal experiences, but I've never been better off than I am currently, knock on wood.
I'm making more money at my job than I ever have. My 401K balances are higher than they've ever been. My personal investments are higher than they've ever been. My paid off home is worth more than it has ever been. My paid off car would be worth more than any other used car that I've ever traded in. My cards are worth more than they've ever been...
I just hope my health holds up, because that's by far the most valuable thing we have...So far, so good...
I bought my home in 2000, and I recall mortgage rates were in the 5.75% to 7% range at that time, and I don't remember anyone crying like they do today about those levels. Those were considered good rates. Ask someone that bought a home in the early 80s. 15% or more was not uncommon for a mortgage back then.
My American Century money market fund where I stashed my short term cash savings was paying me over 6% when I opened it in 1996. There was a long stretch of well over a decade that the interest rate was under 1%, and I mean well under that, like 0.09 or 0.01 or whatever. It's currently 5.23%, easily the best it's been since before 9/11/01, but still well short of what it was in the 90s.
If you want to solve the worker problem, it's going to require at least some increased immigration, legal or otherwise, which a lot of people don't want to even discuss.
Retail stores are closing because the world has changed. Everyone buys everything online and has it delivered.
People need to realize that the internet, and especially the use of smart phones, changed the world permanently.
Is that like THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER. The prices of food have gone crazy high and gas is still higher then it was a few years ago. It really is the middle to lower class that get screwed. Millions of people coming over the border and getting so much free stuff like the very poor get lots of free stuff. The low to middle class who make too much but yet can not afford medical ins. auto ins. doctors, food etc... . The economy is not good.
It's not unexpected with a board full of millionaires, to hear such out of touch statements like, what this country needs is MORE illegal immigrants amid a record breaking illegal immigration crisis.
And then to boast in detail how all facets of their financial life are better than ever in an economy where** 63% of Americans could not cover a $500 unexpected expense**.
I think that number is actually much higher in certain parts of the USA
While I was lucky/blessed to have long since found a way out of my old neighborhood, most of the folks I grew up with did not.
Every year the night before Thanksgiving a group of us now old Elementary/High School School buddies get together. We need to always do at someone's home as half of them don't have even $50 for a night out... No kidding!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
There is no middle class. Now its the survival class. Which I'm in. Not being able to save any money , but still able to pay the bills. But do not have much for hobbies . But still am happy. I look at the cards I have and not the ones I cant have.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
Dow closed at an all time high. You must be in a money market account.
No doubt there are some people who have done better, but far more are worse off, thus the declining card prices. In 2021, after all the stimuluses were handed out card prices went through the roof, but for the last year and a half at least most prices are down, some significantly. The Real Estate market is practically zilch or worse. Affordable new home construction no longer exists because of regulations, costs of land, etc.
I bought my first house (interest rate was 7%) for 86,000. Nice first house split level, totally finished. That same house today (30 years later) would sell for $225,000 ( same rate 7%). Median income where I live is around $45,000 up about $6,000 from 1993. You do the math. People can't afford basic simple living.
These same people are the ones that help make the card industry thrive. Losing them, hurts the card industry. Personally I am with countdouglas, I'm doing ok, but my town/city is not doing better.
People were locked in their homes and had vacation money to spend on cards.
Americans right now owe a record $1.079 trillion in credit card debt. Add that with millions of new illegals in the last 3 years, and 40 year high inflation, its no wonder why sales in collectibles have been flat the last couple years.
What did people think would happen when the last administration printed $3 trillion in funny money from June 2020 through March 2021 while simultaneously sending 70% of the workforce home? Fake money and a stagnant GDP leads to rampant inflation, just ask Venezuela. It has taken 3 years to dig out of that economic disaster and curb the 11%+ inflation triggered by that decision. The proverbial can was literally kicked down the road and here we are.
Economies take time to stabilize when you screw up on that epic level. Thankfully the COVID impact was global and not only in the US. We are pacing the recovery since we were among the first countries to open back up, so unemployment remains among all time lows which is preventing a great recession. To dig out, Americans will have to continue to be more productive to get back to prosperity. The challenge is that no one wants to work and innovate after that paid vacation, so our country’s productivity is stuck in neutral. This is why middle class is languishing and treading water. Have to innovate to eat. Cannot run the same playbook and expect different results.
This parallels why the overproduced segment of the hobby (junk wax era and current post COVID boom overproduction) have sunk like a stone, and high end vintage and elite modern rarities continue to hold value. Those who are leading the innovation continue to earn more and spend record prices on cards. Those that run the same playbook are struggling to keep up. One of the many reasons a free economy is where everyone wants to live. The immigrants aren’t coming here for welfare (they would be far better off in Canada)….they are here for opportunity because they are hungry and have never had a prosperous paid vacation.
@stevek said:
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
Dow closed at an all time high. You must be in a money market account.
@jordangretzkyfan said:
What did people think would happen when the last administration printed $3 trillion in funny money from June 2020 through March 2021 while simultaneously sending 70% of the workforce home? Fake money and a stagnant GDP leads to rampant inflation, just ask Venezuela. It has taken 3 years to dig out of that economic disaster and curb the 11%+ inflation triggered by that decision. The proverbial can was literally kicked down the road and here we are.
Economies take time to stabilize when you screw up on that epic level. Thankfully the COVID impact was global and not only in the US. We are pacing the recovery since we were among the first countries to open back up, so unemployment remains among all time lows which is preventing a great recession. To dig out, Americans will have to continue to be more productive to get back to prosperity. The challenge is that no one wants to work and innovate after that paid vacation, so our country’s productivity is stuck in neutral. This is why middle class is languishing and treading water. Have to innovate to eat. Cannot run the same playbook and expect different results.
This parallels why the overproduced segment of the hobby (junk wax era and current post COVID boom overproduction) have sunk like a stone, and high end vintage and elite modern rarities continue to hold value. Those who are leading the innovation continue to earn more and spend record prices on cards. Those that run the same playbook are struggling to keep up. One of the many reasons a free economy is where everyone wants to live. The immigrants aren’t coming here for welfare (they would be far better off in Canada)….they are here for opportunity because they are hungry and have never had a prosperous paid vacation.
I think the last administration did not send all the workforce home. It was the other side that wanted everything closed. The last admin. wanted a travel ban to stop and keep the virus in China so as not to destroy the economy. It was the admin that is now running our country into the ground and putting everyone else before our own country. Please don't be afraid to speak the truth. I am so very tired of hearing all the such obvious lies on our mainstream media and the brainwashed fools who believe it all. THE BORDER IS CLOSED, THE ECONOMY IS GREAT, PRICES ARE DOWN. ETC.......
What did people think would happen when the last administration printed $3 trillion in funny money from June 2020 through March 2021 while simultaneously sending 70% of the workforce home? Fake money and a stagnant GDP leads to rampant inflation, just ask Venezuela. It has taken 3 years to dig out of that economic disaster and curb the 11%+ inflation triggered by that decision. The proverbial can was literally kicked down the road and here we are.
Economies take time to stabilize when you screw up on that epic level. Thankfully the COVID impact was global and not only in the US. We are pacing the recovery since we were among the first countries to open back up, so unemployment remains among all time lows which is preventing a great recession. To dig out, Americans will have to continue to be more productive to get back to prosperity. The challenge is that no one wants to work and innovate after that paid vacation, so our country’s productivity is stuck in neutral. This is why middle class is languishing and treading water. Have to innovate to eat. Cannot run the same playbook and expect different results.
This parallels why the overproduced segment of the hobby (junk wax era and current post COVID boom overproduction) have sunk like a stone, and high end vintage and elite modern rarities continue to hold value. Those who are leading the innovation continue to earn more and spend record prices on cards. Those that run the same playbook are struggling to keep up. One of the many reasons a free economy is where everyone wants to live. The immigrants aren’t coming here for welfare (they would be far better off in Canada)….they are here for opportunity because they are hungry and have never had a prosperous paid vacation.
The country was shut down at the very beginning, and then half the states (all with one thing in common) kept it shut down while other states opened quickly, Those leaders of THOSE states made people lose their jobs and shut down industries. They hurt student growth.. They had ill advised mask mandates that did not work. They did this all in the name of covid and none of it stopped covid.
Take a look at the spending bills passed in 2021/22.
Sure, oil is still being pumped in the US at a high level, but with how many costly regulations, and it could still be produced more, and certainly more efficiently.
But more importantly it is the inability to have any influence over OPEC that has made energy costs and gas prices surge worldwide the last few years, and that is the main cause for the spike in prices for everything that is produced or transported on something that requires energy(which is EVERYTHING bought and sold).
OPEC knows that some want to go green so they have no desire to pump more oil and that affects gas prices.
The bad players in the world are currently having their way and that hurt as well.
Yes, the DOW is high etc, but is being carried by some astronomical prices of some stocks while many are back to near covid lows. So unless someone is lucky to have hit the lottery on those few stocks, most are seeing stagnation or loss in those investments while prices and cost surge.
We are told that prices are high for food because of an increase in demand after COVID. Really? People didn't eat during COVID? The demand for milk, eggs, steak...anything, did NOT spike after covid. It was the same. So it wasn't demand that caused prices to rise.
Supply chain issues were also a big factor but those issues were made from strict Covid and energy policies by some of our states. Yes, other countries did the same thing, and those leaders did the same thing...and caused prices to spike everywhere
Comments
Buy blue chip cards just as well as blue chip stocks. I find more enjoyment in cards than stocks. However, I do own stock as well.
I always thought that the buyer's premium charged by auction houses covered their services fully. Are auction houses actually paid by both sellers and buyers? If so, that seems like highway robbery to me!
Yup, buy both. Stock profits bring joy, Cards bring a different kind of joy, and if they end up profiting then you double dip your happiness.
Seller's Fee Percentage depends on Auction House and what if any deal you are able to cut with them. But yep you are correct it is mostly Highway Robbery.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
i have never used an auction house, but for expensive cards, it seems almost the best way of doing without a mano to mano transaction. hard to trust ebay, unless you know exactly who you are dealing with.
A reputable auction house such as Heritage Auctions should have a lot of eye balls …and should maximize sale price. I have consigned 27 cards to its January Winter Auction. So…I will see how I do.
I don't know about Mr Buffett, but I completely disagree with that comment.
Lot's of sports loving millionaires out there. They are only buying the best of the best. "Blue chip" cards can make you a lot of money, as an investment, yes, harder to liquidate if you are in a hurry, but a solid long term investment.
Diversifying your investments is always a good plan, and PSA 10 Ruth's Mantles, Clemente's, Ryan's etc wouldn't be selling for such INSANE prices if the wealthy investors weren't involved.
They will for sure get a lot of eyeballs and in exchange take 1/5th of the sale, and even more as a percentage of the profit (assuming your cost basis isn’t zero). It’s incredible how expensive it is to buy and sell cards.
Well it does, but when someone quotes the price of a sale, it almost always includes the BP, which in most cases doesn’t go to the seller.
I negotiated 15% w/Heritage Auctions…
Good for you. Now go break some records!
I would never use an auction house that takes 20% from buyer and 20% from seller. No auction house consistently delivers record breaking prices. In most cases, you'd make out better listing it slightly below market price on eBay and paying 12-15%. For expensive cards ($10k+), AH's are the way to go because you have a better pool of buyers and eBay puts up roadblocks when bidding over $10k (pre approval required for each item you want to bid on). Also, AH's will lower their rates significantly for high $ cards.
For Heritage Auctions…I receive the entire amount before the buyers premium as well as 5% of the 20% buyers premium. So…it is close to EBay w/more eyeballs. Auction houses such as Heritage promote the items which is not done on EBay.
There are auction houses that have zero sellers premium. Mile high auctions is one. I would never do business that charges 15% to the sellers.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Mike High still charges a 20% buyers premium which might go to the auction house or a percentage of that buyers premium. You would have to consign a very expensive item for the auction house not to receive a cut of the amount that the buyer pays for that item (final bid + 20% buyers premium). An auction house does not work for free! No one does…
Yeah 20% buyers premium is standard no?
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Yep. Then…negotiate how much of that 20% the consignor can receive. Again…they will not work for free. Even EBay takes a cut…
Only a private transaction will save you a fee.
I didnt know buyers could negotiate consignor fees. Learn something every day.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
So you sell card for $10K, buyer pays $12K, you net $10K plus $100 and auction house nets $1900.
Sayheywyo…
Yes, that’s how it works. At least , I receive some amount of the $2000. eBay would take $1560 off the final bid for an identical item (13% off $12,000)…but as I see the advantage with Heritage Auctions is that the visibility for the items with Heritage Auctions is much better than eBay or strictly sports card auction houses since Heritage has offices worldwide …and therefore, many more eyeballs see an item.
This is generally only on higher end, premium products.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
“Vintage high end” refers to something that 99.99 percent of collectors don’t think about. You’re talking about a different class of people. Money is never the issue with these collectors.
High end vintage in the categories that I collect is down (deservedly so). I’m sitting on the sidelines and waiting for contagion. To the dealers/collectors, you did it to yourselves….
No, you net $10,500 if you are getting back 5% of the BP. (10K X 1.05=10,500)
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Thx, Grote for clarifying. I like that even better…
The stock market up nicely today. I'm not going to get into politics, but if certain things happen around a year from now, and folks would in the future be making more money in a very prosperous economy, I think cards would be an extremely sound investment.
Some key cards might go to the moon.
I agree.
No matter what happens next fall, '24 will be VERY different than '23. For sure.
They'll crank down rates sometime next spring/summer. That will open up a ton of money sitting on the sides just waiting for timing. This is one reason I'm considering selling my entire PC next year, but I'm going to wait and see how it goes through June.
The stock market is be up and so is everything else. I just came back from Walmart food shopping and it truly feels I get less but the price is higher and higher. Have you seen the price of the sports cards in Walmart and Target. I think with the very high price of the cards they are not selling like they have is years past. The shelves are so full of cards and have not been bare in a very very long time. In years past I would find the shelves with cards bare very often.
It will interesting when Fanatics runs shops and marketing next year.
Smoke and mirrors. The economy is not good. Hard to find good employees. Anything tied to Real Estate is in the tank. Retail stores are closing left and right, Lots of small business can't afford to hire people or pay rent. But since I have stocks I was happy it went up.
The market and cards values are definitely tied together.
Not sure on rates. People have a short memory but the Fed rate has an.average 5.71% from 1971 to 2023 and the 30 year mortgage rate has an average of 7.74%. Nearly free money was not going to last forever. Inflation is difficult to curb.
The cost of labor is up forever and we all will have to pay for that. Wages have been outpacing inflation for years. That has shifted. I don’t think inflation is in the rear view mirror yet.
Everyone is going to chime in with their own personal experiences, but I've never been better off than I am currently, knock on wood.
I'm making more money at my job than I ever have. My 401K balances are higher than they've ever been. My personal investments are higher than they've ever been. My paid off home is worth more than it has ever been. My paid off car would be worth more than any other used car that I've ever traded in. My cards are worth more than they've ever been...
I just hope my health holds up, because that's by far the most valuable thing we have...So far, so good...
I bought my home in 2000, and I recall mortgage rates were in the 5.75% to 7% range at that time, and I don't remember anyone crying like they do today about those levels. Those were considered good rates. Ask someone that bought a home in the early 80s. 15% or more was not uncommon for a mortgage back then.
My American Century money market fund where I stashed my short term cash savings was paying me over 6% when I opened it in 1996. There was a long stretch of well over a decade that the interest rate was under 1%, and I mean well under that, like 0.09 or 0.01 or whatever. It's currently 5.23%, easily the best it's been since before 9/11/01, but still well short of what it was in the 90s.
If you want to solve the worker problem, it's going to require at least some increased immigration, legal or otherwise, which a lot of people don't want to even discuss.
Retail stores are closing because the world has changed. Everyone buys everything online and has it delivered.
People need to realize that the internet, and especially the use of smart phones, changed the world permanently.
I don't think that most folks fully understand the full effects of inflation. For example if everything in life you need to buy goes up 10% in price, and your card collection increases 10% in price, all things being equal, your card collection really didn't gain any value, even though on paper it appears that way.
The killer of course is inflation occurring and card values or whatever collectible it is, doesn't rise in the same percentage. Same as the previous example, if inflation rises 10% but your cards remain the same, then you've lost value.
Fortunately, at least with a good number of key, high grade, PSA cards, the values over the years have generally outpaced inflation, and in some cases have been spectacular investments.
countdouglas
No doubt there are some people who have done better, but far more are worse off, thus the declining card prices. In 2021, after all the stimuluses were handed out card prices went through the roof, but for the last year and a half at least most prices are down, some significantly. The Real Estate market is practically zilch or worse. Affordable new home construction no longer exists because of regulations, costs of land, etc.
I bought my first house (interest rate was 7%) for 86,000. Nice first house split level, totally finished. That same house today (30 years later) would sell for $225,000 ( same rate 7%). Median income where I live is around $45,000 up about $6,000 from 1993. You do the math. People can't afford basic simple living.
These same people are the ones that help make the card industry thrive. Losing them, hurts the card industry. Personally I am with countdouglas, I'm doing ok, but my town/city is not doing better.
Is that like THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER. The prices of food have gone crazy high and gas is still higher then it was a few years ago. It really is the middle to lower class that get screwed. Millions of people coming over the border and getting so much free stuff like the very poor get lots of free stuff. The low to middle class who make too much but yet can not afford medical ins. auto ins. doctors, food etc... . The economy is not good.
Uffdah, do they usually look at per piece or total of consignment? Would one 50k piece be easier for me to move the needle rather that 10 5k pieces? Or about the same?
Thx
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
It's not unexpected with a board full of millionaires, to hear such out of touch statements like, what this country needs is MORE illegal immigrants amid a record breaking illegal immigration crisis.
And then to boast in detail how all facets of their financial life are better than ever in an economy where 63% of Americans could not cover a $500 unexpected expense.
For your example, you're probably actually losing money. Here's why. Let's say you paid $1000 for a card. Inflation increases 10% and the card's value increases 10% to $1100. Since the card kept pace with inflation, you are basically at break even. Yet the IRS considers this a $100 gain with taxes due. You would have been better off having the card stay at the purchase price and be able to see it without taxable gains. Of course I'm ignoring selling costs in this example but it makes my point in a simple way.
I think that number is actually much higher in certain parts of the USA
While I was lucky/blessed to have long since found a way out of my old neighborhood, most of the folks I grew up with did not.
Every year the night before Thanksgiving a group of us now old Elementary/High School School buddies get together. We need to always do at someone's home as half of them don't have even $50 for a night out... No kidding!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
There is no middle class. Now its the survival class. Which I'm in. Not being able to save any money , but still able to pay the bills. But do not have much for hobbies . But still am happy. I look at the cards I have and not the ones I cant have.
Dow closed at an all time high. You must be in a money market account.
People were locked in their homes and had vacation money to spend on cards.
Americans right now owe a record $1.079 trillion in credit card debt. Add that with millions of new illegals in the last 3 years, and 40 year high inflation, its no wonder why sales in collectibles have been flat the last couple years.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
What did people think would happen when the last administration printed $3 trillion in funny money from June 2020 through March 2021 while simultaneously sending 70% of the workforce home? Fake money and a stagnant GDP leads to rampant inflation, just ask Venezuela. It has taken 3 years to dig out of that economic disaster and curb the 11%+ inflation triggered by that decision. The proverbial can was literally kicked down the road and here we are.
Economies take time to stabilize when you screw up on that epic level. Thankfully the COVID impact was global and not only in the US. We are pacing the recovery since we were among the first countries to open back up, so unemployment remains among all time lows which is preventing a great recession. To dig out, Americans will have to continue to be more productive to get back to prosperity. The challenge is that no one wants to work and innovate after that paid vacation, so our country’s productivity is stuck in neutral. This is why middle class is languishing and treading water. Have to innovate to eat. Cannot run the same playbook and expect different results.
This parallels why the overproduced segment of the hobby (junk wax era and current post COVID boom overproduction) have sunk like a stone, and high end vintage and elite modern rarities continue to hold value. Those who are leading the innovation continue to earn more and spend record prices on cards. Those that run the same playbook are struggling to keep up. One of the many reasons a free economy is where everyone wants to live. The immigrants aren’t coming here for welfare (they would be far better off in Canada)….they are here for opportunity because they are hungry and have never had a prosperous paid vacation.
Nope, only stocks and mutuals.
And of course cards and coins. 😎
I think the last administration did not send all the workforce home. It was the other side that wanted everything closed. The last admin. wanted a travel ban to stop and keep the virus in China so as not to destroy the economy. It was the admin that is now running our country into the ground and putting everyone else before our own country. Please don't be afraid to speak the truth. I am so very tired of hearing all the such obvious lies on our mainstream media and the brainwashed fools who believe it all. THE BORDER IS CLOSED, THE ECONOMY IS GREAT, PRICES ARE DOWN. ETC.......
This is delving too much into politics. I'm not a moderator but let's try to steer this back to the hobby so the thread doesn't get nuked.
The country was shut down at the very beginning, and then half the states (all with one thing in common) kept it shut down while other states opened quickly, Those leaders of THOSE states made people lose their jobs and shut down industries. They hurt student growth.. They had ill advised mask mandates that did not work. They did this all in the name of covid and none of it stopped covid.
Take a look at the spending bills passed in 2021/22.
Sure, oil is still being pumped in the US at a high level, but with how many costly regulations, and it could still be produced more, and certainly more efficiently.
But more importantly it is the inability to have any influence over OPEC that has made energy costs and gas prices surge worldwide the last few years, and that is the main cause for the spike in prices for everything that is produced or transported on something that requires energy(which is EVERYTHING bought and sold).
OPEC knows that some want to go green so they have no desire to pump more oil and that affects gas prices.
The bad players in the world are currently having their way and that hurt as well.
Yes, the DOW is high etc, but is being carried by some astronomical prices of some stocks while many are back to near covid lows. So unless someone is lucky to have hit the lottery on those few stocks, most are seeing stagnation or loss in those investments while prices and cost surge.
We are told that prices are high for food because of an increase in demand after COVID. Really? People didn't eat during COVID? The demand for milk, eggs, steak...anything, did NOT spike after covid. It was the same. So it wasn't demand that caused prices to rise.
Supply chain issues were also a big factor but those issues were made from strict Covid and energy policies by some of our states. Yes, other countries did the same thing, and those leaders did the same thing...and caused prices to spike everywhere
This thread is a train wreck…crash and burn. All aboard!
Gas is so cheap now, I have more money for vintage cards. Keeping this thread on track.