It was not found in a junk tray.
It was purchased at a coin shop from a walk-in customer, and priced as a common type coin.
It was only later that they noticed the 1870-S was not in the Red Book.
"An 1870-S half dime went undiscovered until 1978, when it was purchased by Phyllis Storm of Orland Coin and Stamp Shop in Orland Park, Illinois. According to Storm, a man walked into the shop with a small box of coins. She paid him a fair price for the lot, believing the half dime was a common type coin. When she and her husband, Rich, could not find a listing for an 1870-S half dime, they consulted Ed Milas of RARCOA. The coin was determined to be genuine, and Milas purchased it from the Storms."
yosclimber
With all due respect, I read Len's Heritage lot description, and I think it is charitable to suggest that it is established that Phyllis Storm purchased the coin over the counter from an unknown walk-in customer. No one spoke to Phyllis Storm. Len spoke to a person who spoke to Ed Milas who did not state that it came from Phyllis Storm. Len also spoke to William Burd who wrote an article in 1998 and Burd stated that he heard the story from Phyllis Storm's husband although I am not sure when Rich Storm told Burd this. Len can correct me if I got something wrong.
An unknown walk-in customer lost to time may be the most likely source of the coin and that's about the most you can say. In any event, it was a great find.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
@CRHer700 said:
Within the past year I have found the following: 1890, 1896, 1898, and 1903 IHCs, an 1871 shield nickel (low mintage), 1884, 1887, 1902, and 1905×2 V nickels, a 1911-D barber dime, and an assorted 220 or so silver coins. There is a lot more than you think circulating.
I now can add an 1891 to my IHCs, and an 1899, a 1904, and a 1910 to my V nickels.
I also have pulled five $1 silver certificates and a 1929 $10 Boston Federal Reserve Bank Note.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
A 10x profit is difficult but doable. That's basically a good cherrypick.
A 100x profit is very very difficult, especially if you count postage and slabbing fees on the "expense" side of the equation. You'd need a raw coin that you could buy for $10 and sell for $1000, or one that you bought raw, then slabbed and sold for $10,000. It can be done. I don't think there are many people who have done it more than once.
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
(I'm not counting the trivial case of finding a cent in circulation and selling it to someone for $10)
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once.
@jonathanb said:
A 10x profit is difficult but doable. That's basically a good cherrypick.
A 100x profit is very very difficult, especially if you count postage and slabbing feels on the "expense" side of the equation. You'd need a raw coin that you could buy for $10 and sell for $1000, or one that you bought raw, then slabbed and sold for $10,000. It can be done. I don't think there are many people who have done it more than once.
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
(I'm not counting the trivial case of finding a cent in circulation and selling it to someone for $10)
The 1871 nickel that I bought for 5¢ would probably sell for $70 or so. That's 1400x.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once.
What was the coin?
I believe he is talking about the unique 1870-S half dime that was discussed earlier in this thread.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once.
What was the coin?
I believe he is talking about the unique 1870-S half dime that was discussed earlier in this thread.
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
The unknown 1000x profit coin is the one in question.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once.
What was the coin?
I believe he is talking about the unique 1870-S half dime that was discussed earlier in this thread.
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
The unknown 1000x profit coin is the one in question.
Do I sense some skepticism? That's fair. I suppose it's about time I wrote this up -- but I'm going to give it its own thread
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once.
What was the coin?
I believe he is talking about the unique 1870-S half dime that was discussed earlier in this thread.
@jonathanb said:
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
The unknown 1000x profit coin is the one in question.
Do I sense some skepticism? That's fair. I suppose it's about time I wrote this up -- but I'm going to give it its own thread
I am not going to hijack your other thread, but if you have the nerve and the know-how you can find some crazy cool stuff on eBay. I will never forget someone here bidding a few hundred bucks for a 1970-S cent with awful pictures that the seller described as a doubled die, it ended up being the massive and very rare DDO#1-O-I. I have no clue where that buyer found the confidence to do that, but he ended up handsomely rewarded. I once bought a rare Seated Dime variety from a die crack I thought I saw in equally terrible pictures, it ended up being the second or third best coin in the CC and placed in Gerry Fortin's personal collection.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
@jonathanb said:
A 10x profit is difficult but doable. That's basically a good cherrypick.
A 100x profit is very very difficult, especially if you count postage and slabbing feels on the "expense" side of the equation. You'd need a raw coin that you could buy for $10 and sell for $1000, or one that you bought raw, then slabbed and sold for $10,000. It can be done. I don't think there are many people who have done it more than once.
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
(I'm not counting the trivial case of finding a cent in circulation and selling it to someone for $10)
I've been a devoted cherrypicker for 35 years and I don't recall ever flipping a coin for anything close to a 100x profit. The closest I've probably come was pulling varieties from rolls, but that is basically the "trivial case" you mentioned above. Same situation with full-step nickels culled from BU rolls, but there once you factor in slabbing costs the margin erodes quickly. It's never been about the kill anyway, it's the thrill of the hunt.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Oh my God, I cannot believe that was not only your cherrypick, but from the replies I think it was your first post on the Forum. I should probably issue a 20 years too late apology for saying you were "either very brave or very stupid" for winning that coin. It tells you how impressed I was by it that I am still thinking about it two decades later!
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
@tcollects said:
I once bought a medal for $12 that I sold for 350x the same day and ended up losing good opportunities and almost killing myself with the profit
You should tell us which medal it was so we can stop you from doing that again.
Here is my #2 best "in the wild" find. This one from eBay. When I first saw the listing, it had a starting bid of $1,000 but it had already ended (unsold) because there were no bids placed during the 7 days that the listing was active. Then a day later it came up relisted as a $999 "buy it now". I clicked the buy button immediately.
The item is a 1933 $50 "Certificate of Indebtedness" US Treasury bearer bond, with both original coupons still attached.
It is still valid and the US Government would pay $51 to the bearer upon surrendering the paper.
The bond came with a signed letter from US Treasury Secretary Ogden L Mills to Guy Emerson (a prominent Wall Street banker).
As far as I can tell, this is the only surviving example of this bond type. No others have ever come up for sale. But there was something else that nobody else (not even the seller) appeared to notice, other than myself. All US Government bonds have unique serial numbers like currency. And this bond is serial number 1.
The bond also has a dubious distinction. It is literally the first bond defaulted upon by the US Government. On 11 March 1933, President Roosevelt enacted the emergency banking act which severed the gold clause. At that point the US Government would no longer pay bonds in "gold coin" as initially promised and as printed on the bonds themselves. The very first bond type that matured after 11 March 1933 is this 15 March 1933 Certificate of Indebtedness. And this being serial number 1, it is literally the first bond defaulted on. It is still valid to this day for $51, but of course the government reneged on their promise to pay $51 in gold coin.
I received an unsolicited (but legitimate) offer of $8,000 for it. But I declined since I think if I consigned it to auction I would net at least twice that.
A month after buying the bond, I added this vintage press photo of Guy Emerson to the group:
This is definitely my #1 all-time find (also from eBay). I think many, if not most, readers of this forum already know about it.
Original 7.5-inch diameter 1921 bronze casting for the reverse of the Peace Dollar (with broken sword). Made by James Earle Fraser in New York from an original plaster sculpt by Anthony De Francisci. It was intended to be used as the galvano at the US Mint. But apparently, the US Mint instead decided to make an electrolytic copper transfer from the original plaster and use that as the galvano. So this casting was not sent to the US Mint (otherwise, it would never be in private hands).
When I first saw this on eBay it was currently bid to $20. That was a Wednesday and the auction was scheduled to end on Monday. I wasn't 100% sure what it was at the time. I offered the seller $500 if they would end the auction and sell it to me immediately. I also offered $125 for overnight express shipping. They agreed. By Saturday I had it in my hands. Upon close inspection, I concluded that it was totally legitimate. Then on Monday (at about the time the auction was scheduled to end) the phone rang. Before I even picked up the phone, I knew what it was going to be about. The seller was distraught and asked if I would sell it back to him for $1,500. I said no. But I asked why he wanted to do that. His reply confirmed what I had suspected would happen all along. Some other interested party, upon finding that the item was already gone before the auction end time, had contacted the seller and offered them $5,000 for it. I asked the seller: "so, you want to buy it back from me for $1,500 and then sell it to the other party for $5,000, and make $3,500 ?". The seller replied yes. I said let me think about it and I told them that I would get back to them soon. There was no way that I was going to sell it back. But I knew that it was worth a lot more than what I paid. So I contacted the seller and I said basically: "if I just send you $3,500 are you good with that and we'll consider the matter concluded ?". The seller's reply was "absolutely".
I have since obtained a custom authenticity certificate signed by expert John Dannreuther (whom I had examine the casting in person at one of the Long Beach coin shows). At this point, I have a total of $4,325 invested in it.
My greatest in-the-wild find is this 1926 FS-101 DDO dime that graded out at AU53. (PCGS wasn't attributing them yet when I sent this in, but if it was in the pop reports, it would be pop 1/0 with the next highest graded example falling in at VF30). I bought it raw on eBay for just under $26. I have no idea what it would auction for, but examples graded G6 and VG8 have sold recently in the range of $1500.
@Robot1010 said:
2019 P AMP NMI DDO-001
Over 10,000X change find?
Unless they add "DDO" to the label, "Discovery Coin" makes no sense since millions were produced.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Doesn't need to make sense it needs to make dollars. Very likely this will be in the CPG one day. I'm sure anyone can appreciate the discovery coin label from NGC. This does not happen everyday. Maybe once in a lifetime
@Shurke said:
My greatest in-the-wild find is this 1926 FS-101 DDO dime that graded out at AU53. (PCGS wasn't attributing them yet when I sent this in, but if it was in the pop reports, it would be pop 1/0 with the next highest graded example falling in at VF30). I bought it raw on eBay for just under $26. I have no idea what it would auction for, but examples graded G6 and VG8 have sold recently in the range of $1500.
I have not noticed that variety before. I will have to look for those. It appears that the doubling is most prevalent on the "R" of LIBERTY, and also a little on the AW designer's initials.
There are only a few discovery coins between our host and across the street. Most NGC and PCGS discovery coins sell for a few thousand to tens of thousands. I have not sold mine so there is no established value. I could be wrong but I would say it's worth a few thousand
Comments
It was not found in a junk tray.
It was purchased at a coin shop from a walk-in customer, and priced as a common type coin.
It was only later that they noticed the 1870-S was not in the Red Book.
See @Coinosaurus's detailed Heritage lot description, citing sources, plus an interview with Jim SImek to straighten out the facts:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dimes/half-dimes/1870-s-h10c-ms64-pcgs-cac-pcgs-4397-/a/1356-3341.s
yosclimber
With all due respect, I read Len's Heritage lot description, and I think it is charitable to suggest that it is established that Phyllis Storm purchased the coin over the counter from an unknown walk-in customer. No one spoke to Phyllis Storm. Len spoke to a person who spoke to Ed Milas who did not state that it came from Phyllis Storm. Len also spoke to William Burd who wrote an article in 1998 and Burd stated that he heard the story from Phyllis Storm's husband although I am not sure when Rich Storm told Burd this. Len can correct me if I got something wrong.
An unknown walk-in customer lost to time may be the most likely source of the coin and that's about the most you can say. In any event, it was a great find.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Or it’s a cover story for the person who looted the corner stone
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I now can add an 1891 to my IHCs, and an 1899, a 1904, and a 1910 to my V nickels.
I also have pulled five $1 silver certificates and a 1929 $10 Boston Federal Reserve Bank Note.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1056649/cw-collector-finds-rare-1792-half-disme-in-junk-box-grades-pcgs-fr02-w-cac-sold-93k
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
A 10x profit is difficult but doable. That's basically a good cherrypick.
A 100x profit is very very difficult, especially if you count postage and slabbing fees on the "expense" side of the equation. You'd need a raw coin that you could buy for $10 and sell for $1000, or one that you bought raw, then slabbed and sold for $10,000. It can be done. I don't think there are many people who have done it more than once.
A 1000x profit is ridiculous. Even that half disme might not have given the finder a 1000x profit, depending on what they paid for grading fees. I've done it. Once. I don't expect I'll ever do it again!
(I'm not counting the trivial case of finding a cent in circulation and selling it to someone for $10)
Another garage sale find.
What was the coin?
I once bought a medal for $12 that I sold for 350x the same day and ended up losing good opportunities and almost killing myself with the profit
The 1871 nickel that I bought for 5¢ would probably sell for $70 or so. That's 1400x.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I believe he is talking about the unique 1870-S half dime that was discussed earlier in this thread.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The unknown 1000x profit coin is the one in question.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Do I sense some skepticism? That's fair. I suppose it's about time I wrote this up -- but I'm going to give it its own thread
I am not going to hijack your other thread, but if you have the nerve and the know-how you can find some crazy cool stuff on eBay. I will never forget someone here bidding a few hundred bucks for a 1970-S cent with awful pictures that the seller described as a doubled die, it ended up being the massive and very rare DDO#1-O-I. I have no clue where that buyer found the confidence to do that, but he ended up handsomely rewarded. I once bought a rare Seated Dime variety from a die crack I thought I saw in equally terrible pictures, it ended up being the second or third best coin in the CC and placed in Gerry Fortin's personal collection.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I've been a devoted cherrypicker for 35 years and I don't recall ever flipping a coin for anything close to a 100x profit. The closest I've probably come was pulling varieties from rolls, but that is basically the "trivial case" you mentioned above. Same situation with full-step nickels culled from BU rolls, but there once you factor in slabbing costs the margin erodes quickly. It's never been about the kill anyway, it's the thrill of the hunt.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I think @seanq is remembering this 1970-S DDO Lincoln Cent
Oh my God, I cannot believe that was not only your cherrypick, but from the replies I think it was your first post on the Forum. I should probably issue a 20 years too late apology for saying you were "either very brave or very stupid" for winning that coin. It tells you how impressed I was by it that I am still thinking about it two decades later!
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
You should tell us which medal it was so we can stop you from doing that again.
Here is my #2 best "in the wild" find. This one from eBay. When I first saw the listing, it had a starting bid of $1,000 but it had already ended (unsold) because there were no bids placed during the 7 days that the listing was active. Then a day later it came up relisted as a $999 "buy it now". I clicked the buy button immediately.
The item is a 1933 $50 "Certificate of Indebtedness" US Treasury bearer bond, with both original coupons still attached.
It is still valid and the US Government would pay $51 to the bearer upon surrendering the paper.
The bond came with a signed letter from US Treasury Secretary Ogden L Mills to Guy Emerson (a prominent Wall Street banker).
As far as I can tell, this is the only surviving example of this bond type. No others have ever come up for sale. But there was something else that nobody else (not even the seller) appeared to notice, other than myself. All US Government bonds have unique serial numbers like currency. And this bond is serial number 1.
The bond also has a dubious distinction. It is literally the first bond defaulted upon by the US Government. On 11 March 1933, President Roosevelt enacted the emergency banking act which severed the gold clause. At that point the US Government would no longer pay bonds in "gold coin" as initially promised and as printed on the bonds themselves. The very first bond type that matured after 11 March 1933 is this 15 March 1933 Certificate of Indebtedness. And this being serial number 1, it is literally the first bond defaulted on. It is still valid to this day for $51, but of course the government reneged on their promise to pay $51 in gold coin.
I received an unsolicited (but legitimate) offer of $8,000 for it. But I declined since I think if I consigned it to auction I would net at least twice that.
A month after buying the bond, I added this vintage press photo of Guy Emerson to the group:
This is definitely my #1 all-time find (also from eBay). I think many, if not most, readers of this forum already know about it.
Original 7.5-inch diameter 1921 bronze casting for the reverse of the Peace Dollar (with broken sword). Made by James Earle Fraser in New York from an original plaster sculpt by Anthony De Francisci. It was intended to be used as the galvano at the US Mint. But apparently, the US Mint instead decided to make an electrolytic copper transfer from the original plaster and use that as the galvano. So this casting was not sent to the US Mint (otherwise, it would never be in private hands).
When I first saw this on eBay it was currently bid to $20. That was a Wednesday and the auction was scheduled to end on Monday. I wasn't 100% sure what it was at the time. I offered the seller $500 if they would end the auction and sell it to me immediately. I also offered $125 for overnight express shipping. They agreed. By Saturday I had it in my hands. Upon close inspection, I concluded that it was totally legitimate. Then on Monday (at about the time the auction was scheduled to end) the phone rang. Before I even picked up the phone, I knew what it was going to be about. The seller was distraught and asked if I would sell it back to him for $1,500. I said no. But I asked why he wanted to do that. His reply confirmed what I had suspected would happen all along. Some other interested party, upon finding that the item was already gone before the auction end time, had contacted the seller and offered them $5,000 for it. I asked the seller: "so, you want to buy it back from me for $1,500 and then sell it to the other party for $5,000, and make $3,500 ?". The seller replied yes. I said let me think about it and I told them that I would get back to them soon. There was no way that I was going to sell it back. But I knew that it was worth a lot more than what I paid. So I contacted the seller and I said basically: "if I just send you $3,500 are you good with that and we'll consider the matter concluded ?". The seller's reply was "absolutely".
I have since obtained a custom authenticity certificate signed by expert John Dannreuther (whom I had examine the casting in person at one of the Long Beach coin shows). At this point, I have a total of $4,325 invested in it.
My greatest in-the-wild find is this 1926 FS-101 DDO dime that graded out at AU53. (PCGS wasn't attributing them yet when I sent this in, but if it was in the pop reports, it would be pop 1/0 with the next highest graded example falling in at VF30). I bought it raw on eBay for just under $26. I have no idea what it would auction for, but examples graded G6 and VG8 have sold recently in the range of $1500.
2019 P AMP NMI DDO-001
Over 10,000X change find?
Unless they add "DDO" to the label, "Discovery Coin" makes no sense since millions were produced.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall I could have that done but I think it's fine as is. Only discovery coin on a special label
Doesn't need to make sense it needs to make dollars. Very likely this will be in the CPG one day. I'm sure anyone can appreciate the discovery coin label from NGC. This does not happen everyday. Maybe once in a lifetime
I have not noticed that variety before. I will have to look for those. It appears that the doubling is most prevalent on the "R" of LIBERTY, and also a little on the AW designer's initials.
The variety is recognized. Sending some high grades to PCGS soon
So what does the "Discovery Coin" refer to - the first quarter of that design/date/mm submitted to NGC?
If that's the case then by default it's also the discovery coin for the DDO, also.
The issue then is that if you add the DDO designation to the label then it won't be clear what the discovery is.
No issue here. NGC nor PCGS labels a discovery coin incorrectly
There are only a few discovery coins between our host and across the street. Most NGC and PCGS discovery coins sell for a few thousand to tens of thousands. I have not sold mine so there is no established value. I could be wrong but I would say it's worth a few thousand