A Bad 1916-D Dime in a Fake PCGS Slab

Shurke

Just popped up on eBay this morning--a bad 1916-D dime in a fake slab.

Link.

The auction title is laughably silly - "Coins or Mercury dime PCGS AU-58 FB" - and listed by a zero-feedback seller no less. So, absolutely no red flags whatsoever.... The real coin was sold by Stacks and Bowers in June of 2018.

Anyway, here's a pic of the fake:

And here's a pic of the real coin:

morgandollar1878

reported

Tramp

Reported. Don't need this crap around.

Martin

It’s not a coin I would be in the market for. I will admit it could get me. The one thing about it that looks off to me at first look is the rim.
In hand I might have smelled it out but the photo and holder could make it past me. Just saying

Martin

burfle23

On my master list of bad Chinese coins/ fake PCGS slabs; notice anything missing in the corner?

IkesT

Listing removed by eBay.

Grantu

I know this post was to highlight a fake slab but man the real coin is beautiful. And it’s real!

Martin

@burfle23 no PCGS in the corner

Thanks for pointing it out

Martin

Shurke

@burfle23 said:
On my master list of bad Chinese coins/ fake PCGS slabs; notice anything missing in the corner?

Thanks to your many posts on the topic, that was where I first looked when I found the listing suspicious.

MsMorrisine

@Martin said:
.
In hand I might have smelled it out but the photo and holder could make it past me. Just saying

you need to study the fake holders at least so you don't get taken by a better quality counterfeit in the things you do collect

that holder has a number of obvious differences that should give it away at a glance

streeter

Is this scam the variation of what happened a few years ago when lessor quality but real 16-D mercs were substituted for higher quality coins reholdered in look alike pcgs plastic with the authentic label?

Seem to recall several incidents and attributed to Sunnyvale area in Bay Area.

Martin

@MsMorrisine said:

@Martin said:
.
In hand I might have smelled it out but the photo and holder could make it past me. Just saying

you need to study the fake holders at least so you don't get taken by a better quality counterfeit in the things you do collect

that holder has a number of obvious differences that should give it away at a glance

I agree whole heartedly.

In my defense however I really didn’t pay much attention to the holder.

Thanks I can use as much help as I can get
Martin

Glen2022

@MsMorrisine said:

@Martin said:
.
In hand I might have smelled it out but the photo and holder could make it past me. Just saying

you need to study the fake holders at least so you don't get taken by a better quality counterfeit in the things you do collect

that holder has a number of obvious differences that should give it away at a glance

So for those of us not well versed in spotting fake holders, what are the tells that indicate a fake holder. Thanks in advance. (Perhaps a new thread on this topic?)

UpGrayedd

@Glen2022 said:

@MsMorrisine said:

@Martin said:
.
In hand I might have smelled it out but the photo and holder could make it past me. Just saying

you need to study the fake holders at least so you don't get taken by a better quality counterfeit in the things you do collect

that holder has a number of obvious differences that should give it away at a glance

So for those of us not well versed in spotting fake holders, what are the tells that indicate a fake holder. Thanks in advance. (Perhaps a new thread on this topic?)

As @burfle23 pointed out ealier in the thread the biggest tell with the slab is the missing PCGS logo in the lower right corner. Mr. Young also has another thread and list of these fake slabs here: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1092738/master-list-of-pcgs-counterfeits-and-slabs-from-one-seller#latest

Glen2022

Thanks for the link, and thanks to Mr. Young for his efforts. I don't know why some one would take the time, effort and expense to fake a relatively inexpensive coin like the Stone Mountain half shown in the link. In my opinion, it is no where close to a MS63.

anablep

The grommet holding the dime in place seems off, too.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

MsMorrisine

it's hard to see the font, but that is often wrong.
in this case, the kerning, or the space between letters, is too wide.
the blue fade starts too low

https://www.pcgs.com/barcode

the bar code is way off. pcgs uses interleave 2 of 5. out of 5 bars two will be fat. thus 3 will be skinny. the counterfeit's barcode is blurry, with the bars running together, and notice how there are three sizes of bars. sometimes the barcode may actually be readable, but it does not encode the right information. this barcode, with its issues, won't be readable.

these are just some quick glance ones.

blurry photos and photos taken at a big angle are red flags.

burfle23

Thanks for the barcode link @MsMorrisine !

Tramp

@streeter said:
Is this scam the variation of what happened a few years ago when lessor quality but real 16-D mercs were substituted for higher quality coins reholdered in look alike pcgs plastic with the authentic label?

Seem to recall several incidents and attributed to Sunnyvale area in Bay Area.

Don't know but not going to trust the coin to be real when it's in a counterfeit holder, especially the 16-D that is one of the most, if not the most, counterfeited coin there is.

I'll walk and look somewhere else, but that's me.

baseballjeff

I really hope PCGS stays on top of the game here against these counterfeiters. Huge worry of mine for our wonderful hobby. Maybe all third party graders should work together instead of making grading coins a competition.

lilolme

@streeter said:
Is this scam the variation of what happened a few years ago when lessor quality but real 16-D mercs were substituted for higher quality coins reholdered in look alike pcgs plastic with the authentic label?

Seem to recall several incidents and attributed to Sunnyvale area in Bay Area.

.
Edit: I misread the above as this is a fake 1916 D but the fake holder appeared to possibly use a good label and inner ring from a pcgs slab. So not the same. Sorry. But another one to watch for. I actually should have read through it again but to lazy.
.

I think this is one thread on that. Longer read but it eventually comes around to that IIRC. (didn't read it through this time)

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1075017/crackout-gone-horribly-wrong

lilolme

@Glen2022 said:

@MsMorrisine said:

@Martin said:
.
In hand I might have smelled it out but the photo and holder could make it past me. Just saying

you need to study the fake holders at least so you don't get taken by a better quality counterfeit in the things you do collect

that holder has a number of obvious differences that should give it away at a glance

So for those of us not well versed in spotting fake holders, what are the tells that indicate a fake holder. Thanks in >advance. (Perhaps a new thread on this topic?)

.
.
Don't want to say to much because then posts come out saying 'You are just telling the counterfeiters what to do'.

Anyhow. Go to the pcgs museum of holders and the security page and read and look at the good holders. Also a link to a previous thread with a video and other information.

https://www.pcgs.com/holdermuseum
https://www.pcgs.com/security
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1091186/this-cant-be-good-for-the-brand-or-no-end-in-sight

streeter

I'd like to find the thread re the switcheroo of the 16-D I referenced. Took place 10-15 years ago and iirc from the Sunnyvale area. Iirc, several were caught. Who knows how many got away. But I can't even find the search function box.

Am I going blind or what? Where is the search function?😢

lilolme

@streeter said:
I'd like to find the thread re the switcheroo of the 16-D I referenced. Took place 10-15 years ago and iirc from the Sunnyvale area. Iirc, several were caught. Who knows how many got away. But I can't even find the search function box.

Am I going blind or what? Where is the search function?😢

.
On the US forum home page at the top.
After doing a search can select the down arrow on the right to see search limitations. The date one is within +/- (plus or minus) of the date typed in. So within 1 year of a date is one year each direction.
.

.

streeter

Thanks
I did find a thread about bad news 16-D traced down to Colorado area

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/855549/counterfeit-pcgs-slab-on-ebay-1916-d-merc/p1

MFeld

@streeter said:
Is this scam the variation of what happened a few years ago when lessor quality but real 16-D mercs were substituted for higher quality coins reholdered in look alike pcgs plastic with the authentic label?

Seem to recall several incidents and attributed to Sunnyvale area in Bay Area.

In this case, the coin appears to be counterfeit, not a “lesser quality but real 1916-D”. One clue is that it looks much better than AU58.

burfle23

Unfortunately no reverse of the OP posted one. Obv comp:

Rev comp of the one I documented (with bad images):