This is the Craziest Modern Coin I've seen PCGS grade! (Toned Ike dollar)
braddick
Posts: 24,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not my coin!
If it belongs to someone here- congratulations. It is mesmerizing.
peacockcoins
16
Comments
Dazzling!
If I would of sent that in, it would most definitely been branded with
"Questionable Color!"
The TrueView pics don't look so Questionable, than the actual slab!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Gassed in the holder?
This was up there with the craziest I've seen.
The person who bought it posted a video on instagram (copy link below to see it)
www.instagram.com/p/Cuw9MtLOcjR/?img_index=1
This one, not nearly as wild got the "Genuine Only" slab.
peacockcoins
Sometimes one gets lucky and a borderline case gets a straight grade. Other times one isn't so fortunate and a borderline or even market acceptable example gets the QC. I've seen quite a few Ikes, Jeffersons, and ASEs where similar coins end up in different holders (QC vs straight grade).
Not just lucky. . .
Check out the full submission!
(All straight graded.)
peacockcoins
@braddick that I would call super lucky if all were sent in raw.
Maybe someone just sent in a bunch already graded as reholder submissions in order to get the TrueView photos.
Amazing looking Ikes, but those colors can't be NT.
Timothy Leary would have collected those coins.
😉
Someone was asleep at the wheel at PCGS.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
This post sure brought back memories of the ‘70’s. What I can remember of it at least. 😜
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
The craziest one I recall is an ASE that you owned.
Crazy looking Ikes for sure
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
That was pretty crazy. And we all had a chance to own it when he put it up on eBay not too long ago. I probably should have bid higher.
I was tempted to buy it when it was listed on eBay at $2500 BIN but I was too late!
What did it end up selling for?
Sold this beauty.
I miss already!
I had that one migrated from a problem free slab to a Genuine Only.
(I am probably the first to ask PCGS to cross their own coin from an MS69 slab to a "Genuine Only" slab. . .)
peacockcoins
My 99c auction no reserve sold for a little over $800.
It was the new owner who flipped it on eBay for $2,500.
peacockcoins
Sold this beauty.
I miss already!
I was referring to the earlier sale when you listed it for $2,500 in the problem free holder.
Oh, gotcha!
peacockcoins
The coin doesn’t look like one that’s been gassed in the holder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What does gassed in the holder actually mean? Meaning it toned after it was slabbed?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
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That looks very similar to the one I found on the random refresh link.
And coincidently is was one month ago to the day June 22.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13524131/#Comment_13524131
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Gassed in the holder?> @MFeld said:
In other words, you think pcgs drank the kool-aid that day?
(I tend to agree)
So this one is questionable color. Why?.. It just didn't have enough rainbow colors to straight grade?
And this one isn't questionable? As a non-professional, should I be skeptical of these monster toners? As a skeptical New Yorker, why am I thinking mass-produced? Just straight grade it, everyone's making money!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
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I have a hard time believing it is NT. This is why I no longer purchase monster toned coins. The standards have slid at the services, eroding the faith of many collectors.
Toned in the slab, but not by natural means. Supposedly, a very small hole is drilled into the holder and gas is injected.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Is it because the collectors in the market find more monster toned coins acceptable over time, hence market acceptable?
Are we talking micro mini drill bits for acrylic, plexiglass here? 0.013"-0.079" (0.4-2mm)
Sounds devious......but possible.
Sorry, I don't know. I've never done it, seen it being done or heard the specifics of the process.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That's kind of my point. Almost anything goes nowadays... To some edgedynamicmarketing's (or whatever his eBay handle was) work is seemingly acceptable to some cohorts of the market.
Edited to clarify: Not saying this was one of his works...
Coin slabs are not completely air-tight so it's not necessary to drill a small hole that could probably be seen under high magnification. The slab is put in a vacuum chamber and the air is pumped out of the chamber including the inside of the slab. Air enriched with sulfur and possibly other chemicals is then introduced into the chamber under high pressure so the gas will enter the slab resulting in toning. From what I've seen, the results of this process is toning that isn't particularly attractive.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think there's still a line, but perhaps the line is moving. There's still a lot that's not slabbed when I look at eBay, which I agree with.
Really? I guess it could happen. I've always examined slabs very carefully for any tampering.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Hmmm, that sure is compelling! Let me ask you this.. Are trueViews taken at submission or can you submit a PCGS slab years later, after the fact?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
People tend to do this on slabs that don't have a TrueView. Then the coin is sent back for reholder service with TrueView. That way it avoids going to the graders, gets a new slab with a nice photo, and appears back on the market looking perfectly legitimate. Now there have been some reports of coins that are sent for reholdering being examined if something sticks out to whoever sees the coin but most times it would likely just go right by (especially on a coin that has a fairly low guide value without the toning).
IMO fresh out of the oven - looks like the color is swimming on the surface. Wonder how many times it got submitted in order to get it in a straight holder.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Thanks for that! 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Most if not all of the ATing of the coins within their slabs occurred with the old first generation PCGS "rattler" slab which are the least air-tight of any slab. These slabs were made before PCGS started making True View pics. For all the work involved, the resulting toning was mediocre at best and I doubt anyone is still doing it considering the work involved and the mediocre results.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The old PCI slabs produced some wicked toned coins. My guess is that some were crackouts of PCI. Worth the gamble for a modern submission fee.
Thank you @PerryHall for removing the ridiculous speculation theory of hole drilling from the equation. That's one bad side effect of the forum wherein specious knowledge moves forward.
The process @PerryHall described was one used by a forum member perhaps 15-20 years ago, I believe he's from Michigan and his ID was ManofCoins. Coins he AT'd via the process are referred to as being MOC'd. He was a member in good standing with expertise I believe in Washington Quarters and very helpful till he took a trip down the dark road. He certainly wasn't the first or last person to use the process, just the one who was caught. One of the forum sleuths was able to locate images and provide a before/after comparison which put an end to things quickly. Threads might be available in the archives via the "search" box.
Over a period of many years, various people have claimed and/or admitted to what you label “the ridiculous speculation theory of hole drilling”. I have no good reason to doubt all of them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Roger that! Thanks very much. 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Those Ike dollars posted by @braddick are, IMO, everyone, artificially tarnished.... I am amazed they are straight graded. What a shame.
Cheers, RickO
Thank you. I was thinking the same thing but didn't have the guts to say it. 😂 😉 The toning vs. damage thing could have been a death wish for me. You have the clout and respect around these parts to speak your mind.
They would have chewed me up and spit me out!! 😂 😉
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@ricko said: Those Ike dollars posted by @braddick are, IMO, everyone, artificially tarnished.... I am amazed they are straight graded.
I would ask you to consider that they are TrueView images which are taken without a slab and the lighting positioned to take advantage of what color can be seen at just the right angle. I would liken them to the intensely toned Proof IHC's which always spark a lively debate: when viewed encapsulated and in-hand those IHC's look dark brown unless held at the proper angle which makes them pop. The Dollars posted by @braddick are probably the same. I can say matter-of-factly that I have seen a number of Brown Box Ikes over the years with pretty nice color, but only when held at the right angle
There is even a thread around here where an old forum member was busted for gassing slabs. Members found the same coins in slabs blast white that were sold under his eBay account a couple weeks later with toning. He admitted to gassing them.
That’s true. But apparently @Maywood knows for a fact, that neither that person nor anyone else could have gassed coins by drilling a small hole into a holder. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have posted “…the ridiculous speculation theory of hole drilling…”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This tit-for-tat you've engaged in is silly. You want to defend something that you don't know. I've never done it, seen it being done or heard the specifics of the process. With the so-called "gassing" of slabs there is clear evidence in the form of an admission of guilt. Just step-off a bit and admit the hole drilling is speculation from you without any sort of proof.