Any advice on raw coins?

steve_richardson

So it’s been about 25 years since I was actively collecting coins, and I’m only recently getting back into it. A lot seems to have changed since then, or at least I was totally unaware of back then. The main one that I’m just learning about is registry sets, and the way that they seem to have driven up prices for the highest graded coins. Which leads me to my question…

I have some uncirculated coins in my collection, like a roll of unc 1964 quarters and another of unc 1964 halves, and some SBA dollars (’79 wide rims). My grandfather got the silver from the bank before they went into circulation, because he learned that they were going to stop making coins with silver. While I know enough to be able to tell that they are uncirculated, I have no idea how to tell if they are the very high grades sought by Registry Set collectors. I’m still trying to learn the difference between MS63, 65, 67 etc.

I’d love to learn how to (approximately) grade these myself, but I realize that would probably take years of study. And I don’t think that any are likely to be worth more than a few $100 max, so it does not seem worth it for me to pay to have them all graded. I wouldn’t mind selling some to fund my collecting hobby, but I don’t know the best way to go about it. I suppose I’m afraid that I’ll sell a raw 1964 quarter for ~$10, when it may have graded MS66 or MS67 and then be worth 10 times that.

What would you all recommend?

TomB

Howdy and welcome.

First off...don't grade your modern bullion if you don't have exquisite grading skills on your own already. These really aren't the same as a scratch-off lottery ticket. Some coin are valuable in high grade because they are either hard to make/obtain in that grade or there is such a current demand for the coin in that grade that it outstrips or challenges supply. The only guaranteed winner when folks submit modern, common bullion for grading is the TPGs (PCGS, NGC, whatever...).

I would suggest you take your time and learn before doing anything else. Buy a Red Book and read it, hang out on these forums and read the threads of interest, determine who on these boards appears to know what they are doing and can be trusted and look at all the coins shared with a critical eye. Go to coin shows if you can and look at thousands of coins in-hand to see how they are graded, what they should look like and what are likely problem coins. The coins will always be here, but if you are in a hurry or are willfully ignorant, your money won't.

Good luck!

airplanenut

You can look at photos online--PCGS Photograde is a good place to start, as well as auction websites.

Go to a show and look at graded coins in various grades.

Look through what you have and pick out a few that you think are the best of the best. Take some photos and post them here and you can get some opinions to give you an idea of the potential upper limit of what you have. You can also find a PCGS dealer near you and ask them to take a look at those few top pieces to get their in-hand opinion. Maybe it would be worth sending in a few (not all). Maybe it wouldn't be worth sending in any.

Look at prices realized (not just price guides) for various grades. Consider the cost of getting a coin graded (when you account for grading fees and shipping) can easily be $30-50. Even if you leave money on the table for a small number of coins, you may still come out well ahead if you would have lost on most of the coins you would have sent in, combined with there not being an enormous upside for the higher end stuff (this is different if the high end is $100 or $1000 or $10,000, of course).

pursuitofliberty

Good advice from two great guys ^

Welcome to the forum! Hope you hang around a while!!

logger7

For low value coins like that you might try Anacs, they have a special going.

lilolme

@steve_richardson Hello, welcome. Above is good advice.

On the part about: "I’d love to learn how to (approximately) grade these myself, but I realize that would probably take years of study."

I think you can approximately grade in less than years and particularly if focusing on certain series. But precise global grading I believe you are correct (I can't do that). In addition to what is mentioned above.

There are some resources and the first one I will mention is the Resources thread that is pinned to the top of the US Forum, link below and the resource list is in the first post of that thread.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006619/resources-books-links-to-read-on-numismatic-series-errors-and-varieties/p1

PCGS has some grading videos (they are also in the resources list) on YouTube at the link below. Could start with the grading 101.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PCGSVideo

One thing to remember is that photos can be fairly accurate or enhance contact marks (or strike features or luster) or hide or nearly so contact marks and similar. This is just something to be aware of and will vary. Kind of like learning grading I guess. Here is a thread I did to show this.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1084402/morgan-little-lines-now-you-see-them-now-you-dont

Namvet69

@steve_richardson Welcome. You can learn to grade using the free photo grade info on our hosts site. There are particular design elements that you shall examine to get you there. Good luck. Peace Roy

Crackout

I agree with airplanenut. While you may not be able to accurately grade what you have, you can compare the coins to each other to find the best and then have those few evaluated (either with pics here or by a dealer).

AUandAG

When I look at a fresh roll, I put them all face up on a soft towel and then compare them one to the other. I will then end up with one or two that stand out or none that stand out. If I do get a couple then I compare them to the PCGS photograde on this site. I don't believe that I have ever found a roll coin to be worth grading as I have never sent one to PCGS to do so.
Just a way to keep my eyes a bit sharper on what to look for. It helps when I then look at raw coins on ebay to weed out the dreck.
bob

steve_richardson

Thank you everyone for the welcome, and the great advice!

Question about forum protocols… if I do identify one or two coins that I think are best, should I post photos here or start a new discussion?

PeakRarities

@steve_richardson said:
Thank you everyone for the welcome, and the great advice!

Question about forum protocols… if I do identify one or two coins that I think are best, should I post photos here or start a new discussion?

I would start a new thread with a specific title regarding the type of coins in question

airplanenut

@logger7 said:
For low value coins like that you might try Anacs, they have a special going.

Counterpoint: the coins in question are valuable in higher grades specifically with PCGS plastic, and to a lesser extent NGC. Even if ANACS gives the same grade PCGS would, the coins will command much less value, so while the grading is cheaper, there's much less return, negating much of the reason to grade the coins in the first place. Where specials from ANACS really shine are for coins where authenticity or establishing they are problem-free is helpful, or for coins of modest value where a point in either direction doesn't matter much, such as mid-grade circulated type coins.

cladking

@steve_richardson said:

I’d love to learn how to (approximately) grade these myself, but I realize that would probably take years of study. And I don’t think that any are likely to be worth more than a few $100 max, so it does not seem worth it for me to pay to have them all graded. I wouldn’t mind selling some to fund my collecting hobby, but I don’t know the best way to go about it. I suppose I’m afraid that I’ll sell a raw 1964 quarter for ~$10, when it may have graded MS66 or MS67 and then be worth 10 times that.

It's not really so tough. it's mostly experience so it takes time but the amount of actual knowledge to approximate a grade isn't extreme.

The services look mostly at the total amount of marking on a coin so just turn and twist the coin in the light so you can see every mark. When there are almost no marks it's a Gem.

Then the harder part is learning strike characteristics. The highest grades require nice solid strikes from good dies.

steve_richardson

@airplanenut said:
Counterpoint: the coins in question are valuable in higher grades specifically with PCGS plastic, and to a lesser extent NGC. Even if ANACS gives the same grade PCGS would, the coins will command much less value, so while the grading is cheaper, there's much less return, negating much of the reason to grade the coins in the first place. Where specials from ANACS really shine are for coins where authenticity or establishing they are problem-free is helpful, or for coins of modest value where a point in either direction doesn't matter much, such as mid-grade circulated type coins.

Thank you! This actually clears up some questions that I had about ANACS. I was going to save those questions for later, but you seem to have read my mind!

cheezhed

My advice would be to keep grandpa's coins as is and buy some PCGS graded coins of whatever interests you. Use their grading as a basis to learn and then apply that knowledge to raw coins.

Jzyskowski1

I’m just going to say howdy and welcome
Then remind you that the rolls are not going anywhere so perhaps start your education on grading and then perhaps open them. They might turn out to be more valuable as a memory of grandpa and therefore left as is.
Good luck and buy a Redbook. Thanks 🙏

jesbroken

Decide which coin series you wish to purchase or have graded. Learn to grade them yourself using Photograde or many other free tools. Before buying or sending in, pick 10 or more raw coins at random from any source, study them and grade them comparing your results to photograde. If you achieve success 75 % of the time, then do it again until you are higher. Once you have achieved somewhat of an idea of how to grade this particular series, then go to ebay and look for the particular coin that has sold in the last 6 months at a grade similar to the one you picked. Then you will have an idea of whether the coin is worth buying or sending in for grading. Do neither until these steps are followed. Hope you Heed. I did not for many years, wish that I had. Good luck.
Jim

TwoSides2aCoin

Keep ' 'em raw and in the rolls. Add to stack as frequently and moderately as possible. Play the registry game but don't try to make the registry game via submitting. Not cost effective

logger7

@airplanenut said:

@logger7 said:
For low value coins like that you might try Anacs, they have a special going.

Counterpoint: the coins in question are valuable in higher grades specifically with PCGS plastic, and to a lesser extent NGC. Even if ANACS gives the same grade PCGS would, the coins will command much less value, so while the grading is cheaper, there's much less return, negating much of the reason to grade the coins in the first place. Where specials from ANACS really shine are for coins where authenticity or establishing they are problem-free is helpful, or for coins of modest value where a point in either direction doesn't matter much, such as mid-grade circulated type coins.

That may be the story with very common modern coins such 1964 Kennedy halves but they do abide by ANA grading standards and the education seems to be what the OP was looking for not to shoot for the moon. $12 a coin with the Anacs special would not break the bank and the collector could see how they grade. He would probably be spending 3x as much at the top tier services, waiting 4 plus months and just get more frustrated in the process. 10 or so coins with a few more worthy coins thrown in if he has them might make it worthwhile.

olympicsos

@cladking said:

@steve_richardson said:

I’d love to learn how to (approximately) grade these myself, but I realize that would probably take years of study. And I don’t think that any are likely to be worth more than a few $100 max, so it does not seem worth it for me to pay to have them all graded. I wouldn’t mind selling some to fund my collecting hobby, but I don’t know the best way to go about it. I suppose I’m afraid that I’ll sell a raw 1964 quarter for ~$10, when it may have graded MS66 or MS67 and then be worth 10 times that.

It's not really so tough. it's mostly experience so it takes time but the amount of actual knowledge to approximate a grade isn't extreme.

The services look mostly at the total amount of marking on a coin so just turn and twist the coin in the light so you can see every mark. When there are almost no marks it's a Gem.

Then the harder part is learning strike characteristics. The highest grades require nice solid strikes from good dies.

The end of silver in the 1960s had a lot of subpar strikes. Actually quality for many different coins were far from perfect throughout much of the 20th century.

Onastone

Grading raw coins is really difficult and surprisingly simple at the same time.

@AUandAG said:
When I look at a fresh roll, I put them all face up on a soft towel and then compare them one to the other.
@cladking said:

just turn and twist the coin in the light so you can see every mark. When there are almost no marks it's a Gem.

Then the harder part is learning strike characteristics. The highest grades require nice solid strikes from good dies.

Great advice from everyone here. Compare your coins, look for marks you don't like or that are distracting. I like to put sharp looking coins in a capsule to keep them protected.

One thing I like to do is run an air filter in the area I'm looking at raw coins as you don't realize the problems dust can cause, and it's usually invisible to the eye. Another problem can be just talking while looking at your coins. Any moisture from your mouth can affect your coins surface in the future without you even realizing. Keep your hands clean and dry- you don't need invisible oils deteriorating your coins either....always only touching the edges, or just wear gloves. Clean the air, don't spit, and handle carefully!!!

And most importantly of all, don't drink milk while grading, I've seen so many coins with milk spots!! Just kidding on that last one!!!!

ricko

@steve_richardson... Welcome aboard. Really great advice given above....I would certainly support that and one point - definitely get a Redbook..... It provides a wealth of information, as well as rudimentary grading lessons. You will use that book over and over again for years. Post pictures of your coins here when you have questions. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall

@ricko said:
@steve_richardson... Welcome aboard. Really great advice given above....I would certainly support that and one point - definitely get a Redbook..... It provides a wealth of information, as well as rudimentary grading lessons. You will use that book over and over again for years. Post pictures of your coins here when you have questions. Cheers, RickO

I addition to the Red Book, visit the PCGS Coin Facts site. It has a wealth of information for each coin and the photograde section shows quality pics of each coin type in each grade. It's a very handy reference and it's FREE.

Namvet69

Eat all your vegetables, wear clean underwear and this is gonna be fun! Good luck. Peace Roy

steve_richardson

Again, thanks everyone for the great advice! I do have a Red Book… just got a new one since my last one was from 1992

I have been studying the Coin Facts photograde site. It is an excellent resource, but I do wish it came with some commentary about why a certain coin was chosen to represent its grade.

So far the thing I’m struggling with the most is determining the quality of a strike. I can tell if one is bad, but don’t know how to tell when one is exceptionally good. But I’m having fun learning!

WCC

My recollection is that a 1964 quarter in PCGS MS-66 is worth about $50 though this might be somewhat dated now. In this price range, this is the minimum grade you'd need to make anything, unless it's a variety where you can find a rare buyer or the coin has unusually nice toning.

No different for the 1964 half.

Neither coin circulated much and unless it was mass melted around 1980 or 2011, there must be a huge hidden supply of both.

steve_richardson

I’ll start a different thread once I pick some of the nicest ones, to ask for help grading. But in the meantime, here’s an example of one that I like. Just for your enjoyment.

(Separate note I need to work on getting better photos…)

streeter

Grading is 30/30/30/10.
Lot of spots on the obverse and also what looks like a big hit on the forehead/ hairline and weak breast feathers on the reverse.

Going for ms70 on moderns is easier if the coins came from mint sets. Even then, very tough. Mitch Spivak (aka WONDERCOIN on the board) has graded hundreds of thousands of coins in pursuit. A lot of time and money. Read his threads if you are up to the challenge.

lkenefic

@steve_richardson welcome to the Forum! Excellent advice from @TomB and @airplanenut ...as usual...

The only thing that might add about ANACS slabs is that the older white "soapbox" slabs seem to be accurately graded but the blue label slabs... not so much. The current yellow label slabs seem to be ok for for mid grade Type pieces... and mostly Large Cents which is what I gravitate towards. I've never bought bullion in an ANACS slab... deferring to PCGS or NGC instead.

Jzyskowski1

@Namvet69 said:
Eat all your vegetables, wear clean underwear and this is gonna be fun! Good luck. Peace Roy

As always Roy
Your spot on and might I add brush your teeth twice a day 😁

JJM

Yeah, start by downloading PCGS PHOTOGRADE

BryceM

If you give us a general idea of where you live we might be able to connect you to someone who could take a look. A pro can sort through a surprising quantity of coins relatively quickly to identify those that might merit a closer look.

Che_Grapes

So much good advice already! Wow -
I would just add that some raw coins out there are raw because they were initially graded “details - some issue (cleaned etc) and they get pulled out of slabs and resold by dishonest sellers - so I mostly buy only graded coins.

Good luck my friend and welcome back!! 😝

steve_richardson

@BryceM said:
If you give us a general idea of where you live we might be able to connect you to someone who could take a look. A pro can sort through a surprising quantity of coins relatively quickly to identify those that might merit a closer look.

That’s a good point. I’m in Northern VA. I tried searching online for a good local dealer, and was surprised how few there seem to be here. Any recommendations would be appreciated!

Dreamcrusher

I will be teaching a grading class at the World's Fair of Money in Pittsburgh for the ANA in August. It's not too far from your home so you may want to consider taking the class. Go to the ANA website for more information. Also, consider joining the ANA. Money well spent.

PerryHall

@Dreamcrusher said:
I will be teaching a grading class at the World's Fair of Money in Pittsburgh for the ANA in August. It's not too far from your home so you may want to consider taking the class. Go to the ANA website for more information. Also, consider joining the ANA. Money well spent.

I've been an ANA member since 1980 and their monthly magazine (The Numismatist) alone is worth the cost of membership.

logger7

For your modern coins to hit MS65 they really need to be problem free with minimal marks, nice eye appeal. Higher than that the demands just grow. Compare to CoinFacts pics..