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Is going to a coin show becoming dangerous? Long read

This is a long read. If you don't like to read this thread is not for you.
I go to as many shows as time allows, so not many. I went to one yesterday. It was fun, really an enjoyable way to start the day. I sold off many coins I didn't want for my collection and purchased several really nice slabbed coins. I spent some money and did some really good trades.
I also had a backpack that weighed about 30lbs just to give you an idea of what was in it. That becomes a nuisance after a while. I also had many coins I wanted to get opinions on. The dealers there were pretty good for the most part. I felt much better about a few things when I left. I was also given lots of good information by the more nuturing dealers who want to see the hobby grow rather than deter new collectors from sticking around as it was put to me in more than one conversation.
The slicksters really stand out but what's funny is they don't realize it.
That's the good part.
Story 1
Now the reason for the title to this thread.
I sat down at a dealers table as he had many nice slabbed Morgan's which is what I have been buying for the past three months.
We got to talking and another dealer approaches the table and asks the dealer I am talking to "did they get him" he responds "yes they were watching him".
So the dealer who asks the question leaves. Now of course I want to know what that's about.
He told me that during the prior months show he noticed a coin may have gone missing. Shows get a little frantic for some of these dealers who dont bring their museums. He remembered who had been looking at his coins and the missing coin but by this time he could not locate this person. I suspect they left after their petty theft.
It wasn't a very expensive coin but still one the dealer obviously remembered.
So while at the same show this month he is on alert. Sure enough he notices this person from the prior months show. He knows he cannot approach him and accuse him of stealing because he really has no proof at this point.
He did the next best thing. He tells the armed security guard (firearm and handcuffs) the story and his suspicions.
Sure enough they caught him red handed stealing a coin. It must have been a very quite incident as there was no major disruption that I noticed at the show. I did not see this go down. I would have expected a disruption of some sort.
This man was arrested and taken off by the local police.
I asked the dealer if this is something that happens often? I was told "more than would like to see".
My thinking is that they probably deal with these problems in a way that won't taint the shows atmosphere. Makes sense to me but really what do I know.
Story 2 same show (yesterday)
This show goes until 2:00 and I planned on staying until the end as my plans with my wife were not until 4:00.
Well things started winding down at 12:30 as dealers were packing up and leaving. I figured we'll times up I'm out of here.
I leave the building and there is a man looking around his car. As I walk by him I said "you'll be fine your tire needs air but it's okay"
His response to me was shocking.
"I come out to the car before we leave to look me car over, you know they put transponders on people's cars and either crash into them to rob them or they follow them home to rob them".
I said are you serious?
"Yup happens every week somewhere". "The banks are closed and we can't put our inventory into the SDB until Monday".
I said "I had no idea, and this is a long weekend".
He said "Your right it is and once I'm home I feel much safer but getting from here to there is when I am anxious".
I have never really looked at things this way but I will admit that it shook me up a little. I'm not a small man nor am I afraid of other people. The idea of someone crashing into my car or following me home is most disturbing to me. It really opened up my eyes to were we are in todays society.
As I reflect on it I think about the dealers with 50-100 gold coins in there cases. I don't buy gold coins because I don't collect them. It's easy math though. It sure adds up quick.
In the future I am really going to thin out what I carry with me to a show. Not to mention the funds I bring for purchases. Everyone seems to be so open about it while in the show. People with lots of cash buying coins. To think someone or perhaps a crew is on the bourse casing the place for a robbery is a very real problem that I simply was not aware of. I am much more alert now and i hope that some of you are too. I do not doubt that many of you know about these situations and have for a very long time
I know this was a long read. I want everyone to be safe. We're all tough guys until something goes down. I'm sure it happens fast and with precision. At least this is what my spidey senses tell me. I could write more about interacting with dealers and spotting different methods of selling. What turns me on or off but that's a story for another time or a different thread we can discuss if someone wants to start a thread.
It's a great hobby for me and one that has helped me tremendously in many ways. It seems like the lessons are never ending.
I hope you enjoyed this post and are more aware for your own safety.
Everything I have written here is true and just how it occurred. Nothing was embellished.

Comments

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It happens, "more than one would like to see", but the risk is somewhat overblown. One should take precautions, of course, but most coin show theft is still of the petty light- fingers type not any organized armed robbery.

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am not of the opinion that going to coin shows is is “becoming dangerous”, but there has long been risk of theft, especially for dealers, both at the show and driving home from the show. We have had regular posts about these incidents on this forum over the years. Dealers also risk taking bad checks from both collectors and fellow dealers.

    What I have not seen, however, is significant risk of personal safety of either a collector or dealer. Incidents of violent crime are rare in this setting. Both dealers and collectors at shows are often armed, for what that is worth.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower... Yes, the risk is there. However, basic precautions can be taken. There are many threads here on this topic. I suggest doing a search and reading a few. Certainly worth the time. Cheers, RickO

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2023 4:10AM

    It seems like you are most worried about the transponder concept. For that to work, the perp would have to identify the dealer's car, possibly during setup, or during teardown.

    Even without a transponder, in the past crooks would identify dealers in the parking lot when they loaded up to leave, follow them, and break into the car if the dealer went into a restaurant. The solution has been to simply not stop at a restaurant. You can read these stories in forum threads.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1088900/thieves-who-robbed-dealers-car-caught 2023-3
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1076125/smash-and-grab-omaha 2022-5
    ...
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/968428/anyone-have-any-information-on-the-dealer-who-was-robbed-leaving-the-dalton-show 2016-8
    ...
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/488397/ot-stolen-coins 2006-3

    The concept of following the dealer to their home is higher risk for the criminal, as dealers are often armed. As a collector you are not subject to this level of risk, as you don't have as much in your car as a dealer does. Nothing wrong with taking precautions and acting defensively, though.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,532 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I use checks at shows for most purchases over a couple hundred dollars. Been doing it for close to 40 years. Never had one not accepted, though I occasionally get asked for references or a driver’s license.
    I also never bring more than a couple $thousand worth of coins with me, except when submitting them directly to PCGS; in which case they are my first stop.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,372 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was concerning getting mugged outside the coin show since many major coin shows are held in large cities with high crime rates. These coin shows are usually well publicized and muggers tend to go to where the victims are carrying a lot of money and other valuables.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve struggled finding a high quality backpack to hold 30-75 pounds worth of coin stuff. Seems like the most I get is 6 months out of one, and it rips to shreds. Does anyone have advice for a good tough one?

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2023 5:42AM

    @1madman said:
    I’ve struggled finding a high quality backpack to hold 30-75 pounds worth of coin stuff. Seems like the most I get is 6 months out of one, and it rips to shreds. Does anyone have advice for a good tough one?

    Packs for rock climbing can be very durable.
    Usually you avoid zipper closures, as zippers can fail.
    So you have a drawstring type top closure instead.
    And they can be made of very tough material that can handle contact with rough rock.

    https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/haul_packs.html

    You can get current and older model Metolius haul packs new or slightly used on ebay for a bit less.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/154866263528 $120 including shipping
    Search on ebay for
    metolius haul pack
    and you'll find quite a few.

    And here's the Black Diamond version:
    https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/creek-20-pack/?colorid=7356 $115 including shipping

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Paranoia is the greatest danger, next to fear. I've noticed lots of both in this business/hobby.

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In today's world, one must be cognizant of their surroundings at all times.
    When I go to the local credit union to pick up boxes of coins, myself preservation alarm goes off the minute I walk in and even more so, when I walk out.
    I have a second set of eyes with me (my wife) to keep lookout while I load the car.
    It is sad that one must think and act this way to avoid becoming a victim.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • Klif50Klif50 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭

    Going to a coin show is no more dangerous, for the most part, than stopping at the ATM at the bank and making a withdrawal. Observant people can see you take cash out of the machine and either approach you in the parking lot of follow you for a bit and run you off the road for your cash.

    Situational awareness is your best friend along with being armed and trained in the application of that firearm.

  • erscoloerscolo Posts: 609 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The few times I have gone to a coin show I never worried about a robbery, as I never took any coins. Life has its' share of worthless trash and evil, but is too short to let tat dictate how I live so long as that is legal.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    I’ve struggled finding a high quality backpack to hold 30-75 pounds worth of coin stuff. Seems like the most I get is 6 months out of one, and it rips to shreds. Does anyone have advice for a good tough one?

    It's not a backpack, but the Stanley tool bags are quite strong and hold up very well.

  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is not a new development - thirty years ago, when a friend and I traveled to various shows and we wanted to stop for a pit stop or a bite to eat on the way home, one of us went into the restaurant while the other sat in the car.

    Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I’m leaving a coin show and have coins and for that matter a casino (when the few times I leave with cash) I’m always very careful. I never stop anywhere heading home and when I’m approaching my house I go a circuitous route and make sure I’m not being followed.

    I’ve never had any problems but I’ve heard of people getting robbed at gunpoint at their house after leaving LA casinos for the last 30 years and it doesn’t appear to be getting any worse.

    Be careful and smart. Don’t be flashy. Try to minimize what you’re carrying.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,406 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2023 7:53AM

    Driving to a show to setup is highest risk IMO (car breakdown, being followed). If driving it is nonstop. Absolutely no stops to eat. Drive thru down the line may be ok if coast looks clear. Then unloading and loading (return trip) after show. One could be sitting duck. I have cart get it all in / out in one trip. Obey traffic rules be cognizant of environment. Going thru airports no picnic.

    Once items inside inventory in display case - keep cases locked if leaving table, watch potential buyers looking at items showing them, avoid distractions, don’t allow anybody disrupt process. An experienced thief can steal something in the blink of an eye. I don’t let anyone open a display case get multiple items. Be in control of what you show them.

    A friend who did nothing but gold coins said it was stressful for him flying, going thru airports. Then if driving to shows had various guns always looking in mirror. At shows he might have a case full of slabbed Double Eagles / many stacked. Definitely something a thief would zero in on. The stress of all that (especially travel) took its toll.

    If going to show be cognizant of environment around you and anything screwball avoid it. Goal get in bourseroom safely or quickly to car if leaving. In that scenario (not setting up) I would have a briefcase or small laptop bag. Slab boxes be careful not leave somewhere.

    Coins & Currency
  • @1madman said:
    I’ve struggled finding a high quality backpack to hold 30-75 pounds worth of coin stuff. Seems like the most I get is 6 months out of one, and it rips to shreds. Does anyone have advice for a good tough one?

    Yes buy this. You can find them for less. A used one for even less. I've had mine for 20 years. Still like new. It will be passed on to my great grandchildren.
    Guaranteed for life and handmade in the US-

  • TrampTramp Posts: 705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Went to the last Houston coin show carrying $30K in gold, other coins and cash in a backpack. How much more obvious can I get? It's a big parking lot, 200 feet from truck to front door of show. A lot can happen in that time. Two security guards inside. Walked out with a $50K coin, empty backpack, no escort and 200 feet back to truck. Yes, Spidey senses turned on. Safety in numbers; my wife likes traveling to shows with me and she's my second pair of eyes.

    BTW - what's one or two armed guards going to do if 200 kids (flash mob) decide to raid the bourse floor? You all know where the next large show is and have seen what's going on in that city. Be safe, take precautions and be ready to lock those cases in seconds of not always locked.

    USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
    My current Registry sets:
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
    ✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)

  • Someone mentioned Paranoia.
    There is no paranoia involved here.
    I definetly agree with all the comments. Being cautions as mentioned I think is the main thing.
    The only reason I posted this thread was the guy with the sticky fingers who got caught and seeing the dealer when I left frisking his car for some kind of tracking device. Two scenerios in one day. If you've ever heard of an "airtag" you now know how simple it is to follow someone. I have read a few of those threads about robberies and I don't like them.
    I'm protected. I would hand over my coins before I would put a hole in someone though.
    I think what updates this thread from previous threads is just how easy it has become to track someone with today's technology. A device the size of a quarter stuck anywhere does the job God forbid.
    I think the dealer was wise for looking his car over. What the heck you can never be to careful.
    Aside from all of this it's good conversation and it doesn't hurt to bring it up again.
    I want to be safe and I want the same for everyone else!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 17, 2023 8:13AM

    @Tramp said:
    Went to the last Houston coin show carrying $30K in gold, other coins and cash in a backpack. How much more obvious can I get? It's a big parking lot, 200 feet from truck to front door of show. A lot can happen in that time. Two security guards inside. Walked out with a $50K coin, empty backpack, no escort and 200 feet back to truck. Yes, Spidey senses turned on. Safety in numbers; my wife likes traveling to shows with me and she's my second pair of eyes.

    BTW - what's one or two armed guards going to do if 200 kids (flash mob) decide to raid the bourse floor? You all know where the next large show is and have seen what's going on in that city. Be safe, take precautions and be ready to lock those cases in seconds of not always locked.

    They might get in but that doesn't mean they are getting out.....
    I hope something like that never happens but in today's world nothing surprises me anymore.

  • jkrkjkrk Posts: 987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Paranoia is the greatest danger, next to fear. I've noticed lots of both in this business/hobby.

    Paranoia is my middle name. I don't go anywhere without it.

  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BTW - what's one or two armed guards going to do if 200 kids (flash mob) decide to raid the bourse floor?

    No problem - Joeykoins says it's his kind of town. :D

    Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jkrk said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Paranoia is the greatest danger, next to fear. I've noticed lots of both in this business/hobby.

    Paranoia is my middle name. I don't go anywhere without it.

    Paranoia is my middle name. I look everywhere for it. (There, corrected your comment) 😉

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • jkrkjkrk Posts: 987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:

    @jkrk said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Paranoia is the greatest danger, next to fear. I've noticed lots of both in this business/hobby.

    Paranoia is my middle name. I don't go anywhere without it.

    Paranoia is my middle name. I look everywhere for it. (There, corrected your comment) 😉

    LIKE it.

  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Things you do to help with safety

    1. Don’t go cheap on a hotel. Cheap hotels breed crime including prostitution/narcotics trafficking. Stay very close if not at the site of the show.

    2. Be wary at gas stations - lots of crime occurs at gas stations including lots of narcotics transactions. Where there are drugs there are firearms/robberies/violence

    3. Don’t tip people off to what is in your vehicle or room. Keep it stored discreetly

    4. Be wary of people following you. If someone is mimicking your movements on the road/on foot or paying an odd amount of attention to you, there’s probably a reason.

    BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes. No wonder I have zero interest in becoming a dealer. Never been to a coin show and I’m really thinking that’s not a bad thing. 🥱

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • TrampTramp Posts: 705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pnies20

    1. Be wary at gas stations - lots of crime occurs at gas stations including lots of narcotics transactions. Where there are drugs there are firearms/robberies/violence

    Yep!

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/huge-mob-ransacks-california-gas-station-police-outnumbered-video

    USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
    My current Registry sets:
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
    ✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FWIW, from Apple’s website re AirTags. Used to be you didn’t know if someone’s Airtag was tracking you. No longer.
    Lance.

    “ If someone else’s AirTag finds its way into your stuff, your iPhone will notice it’s traveling with you and send you an alert. After a while, if you still haven’t found it, the AirTag will start playing a sound to let you know it’s there.
    Of course, if you happen to be with a friend who has an AirTag, or on a train with a whole bunch of people with AirTag, don’t worry. These alerts are triggered only when an AirTag is separated from its owner.”

  • It's that the newer version of an airtag or a software update for all airtags I wonder. Regardless I am sure tracking devices exist that will work covertly, unfortunately. This is the type of technology I do not like.

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2023 12:56PM

    I'm always on alert when arriving, and leaving, a coin show. These shows obviously attract some 'opportunists'. I usually try to time my parking lot walk with others, but that's not always possible. Stay alert, and avoid engaging with anyone outside. I've noticed that security at the Long Beach Show security seems to be getting ramped up quite a bit, probably for good reason. Stay safe everyone.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • skier07skier07 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don’t be cheap trying to save a few dollars for parking. Park as close to the venue as possible regardless of the cost.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One is more likely to be involved in a car accident than being robbed at or after a coin show.

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those that work in the armor car industry have the best advice:
    "If you carry a baseball bat in your car for protection, be sure also to carry
    a baseball mitt in case you're pulled over.

    peacockcoins

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