Opinions on this seated liberty proof
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I am considering purchasing this Seated Liberty Proof.
I really just want to own one and I would like it to be a proof.
I would like to get some opinions across the board. Grade, color and ete appeal.
I like it but you guys can see into things that I cannot.
Thank you
2
Comments
The color doesn't look natural for any Seated Proof I've seen.
The spot on the reverse is a huge detractor for me, in hand I'd wager it's 50/50 details. I'd never buy a Seated Proof without either seeing it in hand or having it graded by a major TPG.
I want a Seated Proof to look like this:
Good original color, no spots, and deep mirrors with some frost (it's a PR69CAM, yes I know it's a really high grade but that's the eye appeal you want). You want a coin that makes you say "WOW!", and the 1878 definitely doesn't do that.
Coin Photographer.
Proof coins rarely lend themselves to meaningful grade guesses, based on images. This one is no exception in that regard.
And if it’s not professionally graded, you already know that you’re looking for trouble and frustration if you buy it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is a return privilege. I have not committed to purchasing it. I only inquired asking for the best price.
Not sure what that will be. Regardless I wanted to get some opinions.
So far I have received expert opinions that I appreciate very much.
Seller is calling it ms63.
That may be a problem, considering your statement that you are looking for a proof.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I was comparing it to this 63+ as far as toning goes. Not bullseye but somewhat scattered.
I'm not sure I know what you mean.
Is the seller calling it MS63 or PR63? Different animals, though with this date an MS63 is slightly more valuable than a PR63.
My advice is to buy one slabbed already by PCGS or NGC. If that doesn't work for you then I will tell you that this coin has been absolutely dipped, at least one time, has a very distracting carbon spot on the reverse rim on the L of DOL that might actually be a spot of corrosion and has an obvious fingerprint on the upper half of the obverse over Ms. Liberty's head and absolutely, positively, 100% has wear. If a proof, it is a dog PR55/58.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Obvious mistake. I wrote MS63 but meant PR63.
I don't buy many proofs outside of my WLH set. I'm not used to using the PR term. I use ms much more frequently. Honest mistake.
Apologies for a somewhat rude sounding question, but what attracts you to this coin? It seems rather dull and lifeless?
You say you want to buy a proof coin from a seller, that the seller is calling MS63.
Thats where the confusion is.
Edited, i now see it was PF63...ok
Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23
I posted my mistake.
Looks to be a fingerprint between 11 and 12 o'clock on the obverse.
I'd ask for much better pictures from the seller before making any decisions.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Proofs are notoriously difficult to photograph well, and coins that look substandard can suddenly pop when properly lit. That said I can only go by these photos, and if the seller is grading it 63 then there are probably substantial hairlines hiding in the haze. There is definite friction on the breast and the color looks a bit iffy so my guess would be AU details (QC).
Thank you for that. I was thinking the same.
As for the AU details that would have to be determined in hand I imagine.
30 day return privilege. I don't like to use them but I will if it's not what it's supposed to be.
My opinion is don't buy it. I like @TomB's statement that "If a proof, it is a dog"
Don't jump on the first coin you see just because you want a Seated Proof. If you take time and research to find out what's out there, you'll end up with a better coin overall. It takes lots of time to find the right coin.
Coin Photographer.
Yeah I would pass. Proof seated halves are not rare and there are plenty of other fish in the sea.
I've made this mistake several times in my area of interest by "saving" a few hundred dollars only to end up with a coin I wasn't proud to own.
"I only inquired asking for the best price. Not sure what that will be."
Well that would be a huge factor. If you can get for cheap it might not be too bad. If it is anywhere close to what you could buy an already graded one for you would be best to invest a little more in a graded coin rather than take a risk. If you plan to spend money to grade or conserve you need to factor that in. Check sold auction prices if you have not already done that.
I don't like the gunk around the wing. maybe old adhesive
And I don't like the spot on the lower reverse.
The coin needs help and you gamble big time conserving proofs.
I would pass on this coin.
I don’t like the haze on it or splotchy areas. Looks like it needs a dip - pass, especially if raw.
"... proud to own" ... yes, three key words when selecting a coin. Are you "proud to own" it? I like this.
Also, to the OP, if you are trying to prove your mettle by having been "proud to have made" one, do that at a show or a shop, not off images. At least that way you have, and saw what you are really getting. That image tells us next to nothing, other than certain visualizations @TomB so eloquently describes
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
If you are going to spend more than $300 for a coin and it is not in a slab, ask yourself why and save your money.
This.
I gave up on raw coins. I still see alot for sale and some at high prices well into 4 figures. I look and ask why not slabbed? Then figure it has issues that would grade details.
It's slabs for me, grade might not be exactly what everyone thinks it should be, but im sure its within a point.
Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23
or was bought in details slab and cracked to sell to unsuspecting for inflated retail
I definitely appreciate everyone's response.
This is very helpful.
One piece of advice that was given to me early on that I do obviously use by posting this coin was, "ask or post the coin BEFORE you buy".
That's all I am doing. This is not the first SLH I have looked at not by a stretch.
It is priced attractively which gave me the idea of "I will post it and get opinions".
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to offer solid advice on not only this coin but all of it.
I'd be lost without this forum and probably be stuck with $20k worth of junk in no time.
I know you guys said pass and I will.
Coin is priced at $1025.
So at least I can say that the dealer is not trying to rip anyone off.
If you have read to this point I need to ask what is this coins value?
Obviously just by using the images.
You are teaching me to look for things I don't see!
Your decision to pass, is, IMO, a good decision. Too many red flags in the pictures, plus, it really does look more MS than PR... Cheers, RickO
The listed PCGS population of With Motto Proof Seated Liberty Half Dollars is more than 6000 pieces and the NGC population is several thousand, as well.
And yet, though you're very far removed from expert status and have already had multiple problems buying ungraded coins, you are (or were) considering buying an ungraded example from a seller you don't even know.
I wish you luck, but I'm through beating my head against the wall, trying to convey the same messages over and over, again.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
With your level of knowledge, I’d advise against spending 1K plus on a raw coin.
A PR63 will have many hairlines (and likely many more if dealer is over grading). You’ll want to see proofs of this series in person to understand what is attractive for the grade and to your tastes.
If it were me, id look for a select PCGS PR65 and save up to acquire one especially if buying for type.
Better to avoid the “but for” coins seeking a bargain that brings regret later.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Here's an example that might be helpful as a guide. I showed this coin to Warren Mills at FUN who is a very experienced dealer and collects seated halves. He told me this coin was "as original as they come". There is one scratch in the right obverse field (not the prominent slab scratch located similarly).
https://player.vimeo.com/video/786100580
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@Catbert - that’s a wow coin.
I wouldn’t buy that coin with your money.
Unless you’re an expert don’t buy expensive raw coins. If a dealer is selling the coin raw there’s probably a good reason why it’s not in a holder. If someone who mostly sells flower pots on eBay happens to have a raw coin for sale it potentially could be a very nice coin.
Addendum:
This coin was purchased raw on eBay from a mostly flower pot seller inexpensively by a forum member (not me).
I don't pay big money for "neon colors." Therefore most might not like my Proof coins.
This one is graded PR-64. When you swirl this one under a light, you will see the Proof mirrors, unbroken, under the original toning.
As for the coin in the OP, I think it has been messed with. The Proof mirrors appeared to be impaired, and the color looks artificial. If it sent in for grading, it would either come back in something like a PR-61 holder if your were lucky or a "details" holder if you get what it appears to be.
OP coin looks lifeless and has been helped sometime in its past. The spot is also a deal breaker. Hard pass for me.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012