Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Opinions on this seated liberty proof

I am considering purchasing this Seated Liberty Proof.
I really just want to own one and I would like it to be a proof.
I would like to get some opinions across the board. Grade, color and ete appeal.
I like it but you guys can see into things that I cannot.
Thank you

Comments

  • Options
    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 8:12PM

    The color doesn't look natural for any Seated Proof I've seen.

    The spot on the reverse is a huge detractor for me, in hand I'd wager it's 50/50 details. I'd never buy a Seated Proof without either seeing it in hand or having it graded by a major TPG.

    I want a Seated Proof to look like this:

    Good original color, no spots, and deep mirrors with some frost (it's a PR69CAM, yes I know it's a really high grade but that's the eye appeal you want). You want a coin that makes you say "WOW!", and the 1878 definitely doesn't do that.

    Coin Photographer.

  • Options

    There is a return privilege. I have not committed to purchasing it. I only inquired asking for the best price.
    Not sure what that will be. Regardless I wanted to get some opinions.
    So far I have received expert opinions that I appreciate very much.
    Seller is calling it ms63.

  • Options
    P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 7:41PM

    @Watchtower said:
    Seller is calling it ms63.

    That may be a problem, considering your statement that you are looking for a proof.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • Options

    I was comparing it to this 63+ as far as toning goes. Not bullseye but somewhat scattered.

  • Options

    @P0CKETCHANGE said:

    @Watchtower said:
    Seller is calling it ms63.

    That may be a problem, considering your statement that you are looking for a proof.

    I'm not sure I know what you mean.

  • Options

    Obvious mistake. I wrote MS63 but meant PR63.
    I don't buy many proofs outside of my WLH set. I'm not used to using the PR term. I use ms much more frequently. Honest mistake.

  • Options
    HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Apologies for a somewhat rude sounding question, but what attracts you to this coin? It seems rather dull and lifeless?

    Higashiyama
  • Options
    Shane6596Shane6596 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 7:51PM

    You say you want to buy a proof coin from a seller, that the seller is calling MS63.

    Thats where the confusion is.

    Edited, i now see it was PF63...ok

    Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23

  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 5, 2023 8:02PM

    I posted my mistake.

  • Options
    anablepanablep Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks to be a fingerprint between 11 and 12 o'clock on the obverse.

    I'd ask for much better pictures from the seller before making any decisions.

    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • Options
    fluffy155fluffy155 Posts: 234 ✭✭✭✭

    Proofs are notoriously difficult to photograph well, and coins that look substandard can suddenly pop when properly lit. That said I can only go by these photos, and if the seller is grading it 63 then there are probably substantial hairlines hiding in the haze. There is definite friction on the breast and the color looks a bit iffy so my guess would be AU details (QC).

  • Options

    @fluffy155 said:
    Proofs are notoriously difficult to photograph well, and coins that look substandard can suddenly pop when properly lit. That said I can only go by these photos, and if the seller is grading it 63 then there are probably substantial hairlines hiding in the haze. There is definite friction on the breast and the color looks a bit iffy so my guess would be AU details (QC).

    Thank you for that. I was thinking the same.
    As for the AU details that would have to be determined in hand I imagine.
    30 day return privilege. I don't like to use them but I will if it's not what it's supposed to be.

  • Options
    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    There is a return privilege. I have not committed to purchasing it. I only inquired asking for the best price.
    Not sure what that will be. Regardless I wanted to get some opinions.
    So far I have received expert opinions that I appreciate very much.
    Seller is calling it ms63.

    My opinion is don't buy it. I like @TomB's statement that "If a proof, it is a dog"

    Don't jump on the first coin you see just because you want a Seated Proof. If you take time and research to find out what's out there, you'll end up with a better coin overall. It takes lots of time to find the right coin.

    Coin Photographer.

  • Options
    fluffy155fluffy155 Posts: 234 ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I would pass. Proof seated halves are not rare and there are plenty of other fish in the sea.

    I've made this mistake several times in my area of interest by "saving" a few hundred dollars only to end up with a coin I wasn't proud to own.

  • Options
    ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "I only inquired asking for the best price. Not sure what that will be."

    Well that would be a huge factor. If you can get for cheap it might not be too bad. If it is anywhere close to what you could buy an already graded one for you would be best to invest a little more in a graded coin rather than take a risk. If you plan to spend money to grade or conserve you need to factor that in. Check sold auction prices if you have not already done that.

    I don't like the gunk around the wing. maybe old adhesive
    And I don't like the spot on the lower reverse.
    The coin needs help and you gamble big time conserving proofs.
    I would pass on this coin. ;)

  • Options
    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 8:44PM

    I don’t like the haze on it or splotchy areas. Looks like it needs a dip - pass, especially if raw.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • Options
    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fluffy155 said:
    Yeah I would pass. Proof seated halves are not rare and there are plenty of other fish in the sea.

    I've made this mistake several times in my area of interest by "saving" a few hundred dollars only to end up with a coin I wasn't proud to own.

    "... proud to own" ... yes, three key words when selecting a coin. Are you "proud to own" it? I like this.

    Also, to the OP, if you are trying to prove your mettle by having been "proud to have made" one, do that at a show or a shop, not off images. At least that way you have, and saw what you are really getting. That image tells us next to nothing, other than certain visualizations @TomB so eloquently describes


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • Options
    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you are going to spend more than $300 for a coin and it is not in a slab, ask yourself why and save your money.

  • Options
    Shane6596Shane6596 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    If you are going to spend more than $300 for a coin and it is not in a slab, ask yourself why and save your money.

    This.

    I gave up on raw coins. I still see alot for sale and some at high prices well into 4 figures. I look and ask why not slabbed? Then figure it has issues that would grade details.

    It's slabs for me, grade might not be exactly what everyone thinks it should be, but im sure its within a point.

    Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23

  • Options
    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Shane6596 said:

    @davewesen said:
    If you are going to spend more than $300 for a coin and it is not in a slab, ask yourself why and save your money.

    This.

    I gave up on raw coins. I still see alot for sale and some at high prices well into 4 figures. I look and ask why not slabbed? Then figure it has issues that would grade details.

    It's slabs for me, grade might not be exactly what everyone thinks it should be, but im sure its within a point.

    or was bought in details slab and cracked to sell to unsuspecting for inflated retail

  • Options

    I definitely appreciate everyone's response.
    This is very helpful.
    One piece of advice that was given to me early on that I do obviously use by posting this coin was, "ask or post the coin BEFORE you buy".
    That's all I am doing. This is not the first SLH I have looked at not by a stretch.
    It is priced attractively which gave me the idea of "I will post it and get opinions".
    I really appreciate you guys taking the time to offer solid advice on not only this coin but all of it.
    I'd be lost without this forum and probably be stuck with $20k worth of junk in no time.
    I know you guys said pass and I will.
    Coin is priced at $1025.
    So at least I can say that the dealer is not trying to rip anyone off.
    If you have read to this point I need to ask what is this coins value?
    Obviously just by using the images.
    You are teaching me to look for things I don't see!

  • Options
    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your decision to pass, is, IMO, a good decision. Too many red flags in the pictures, plus, it really does look more MS than PR... Cheers, RickO

  • Options
    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The listed PCGS population of With Motto Proof Seated Liberty Half Dollars is more than 6000 pieces and the NGC population is several thousand, as well.

    And yet, though you're very far removed from expert status and have already had multiple problems buying ungraded coins, you are (or were) considering buying an ungraded example from a seller you don't even know.

    I wish you luck, but I'm through beating my head against the wall, trying to convey the same messages over and over, again.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Options
    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With your level of knowledge, I’d advise against spending 1K plus on a raw coin.

    A PR63 will have many hairlines (and likely many more if dealer is over grading). You’ll want to see proofs of this series in person to understand what is attractive for the grade and to your tastes.

    If it were me, id look for a select PCGS PR65 and save up to acquire one especially if buying for type.

    Better to avoid the “but for” coins seeking a bargain that brings regret later.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • Options
    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's an example that might be helpful as a guide. I showed this coin to Warren Mills at FUN who is a very experienced dealer and collects seated halves. He told me this coin was "as original as they come". There is one scratch in the right obverse field (not the prominent slab scratch located similarly).

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • Options
    Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert - that’s a wow coin.

  • Options
    skier07skier07 Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2023 7:57AM

    I wouldn’t buy that coin with your money.

    Unless you’re an expert don’t buy expensive raw coins. If a dealer is selling the coin raw there’s probably a good reason why it’s not in a holder. If someone who mostly sells flower pots on eBay happens to have a raw coin for sale it potentially could be a very nice coin.

    Addendum:

    This coin was purchased raw on eBay from a mostly flower pot seller inexpensively by a forum member (not me).

  • Options
    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2023 8:18AM

    I don't pay big money for "neon colors." Therefore most might not like my Proof coins.

    This one is graded PR-64. When you swirl this one under a light, you will see the Proof mirrors, unbroken, under the original toning.


    As for the coin in the OP, I think it has been messed with. The Proof mirrors appeared to be impaired, and the color looks artificial. If it sent in for grading, it would either come back in something like a PR-61 holder if your were lucky or a "details" holder if you get what it appears to be.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Options
    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OP coin looks lifeless and has been helped sometime in its past. The spot is also a deal breaker. Hard pass for me.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file