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How is this just an MS66? Really it was an MS67 that spent 25 years on a window ledge

Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 16, 2023 2:40AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I cracked this M67 a couple of decades ago, I made most of the MS67's because I purchased 10K 1968 mint sets 25 years ago. It sat on a window sill for 25 years after got the PCGS MS 67. It got really good looking and just downgraded. Is getting high at PCGS ok now? This is a flat out MS68 coin,

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    NickelMikeNickelMike Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    Clarification please.

    You purchased 10,000, 1968 mint sets 25 years ago? That’s a lot of sets to look through!

    Second, you say you cracked this coin 25 years ago. You then say it just downgraded. Did you recently crack it out of the 67 holder again and send it in raw where it returned to you as a 67 again?

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    NickelMikeNickelMike Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the clarification. That is a nice looking half. 12,500 sets! That is a huge time investment.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2023 12:00PM

    @wondercoin said:

    For comparison, here is my former pop 1/0 PCGS-MS67+ coin that is now pop 4/0.

    Why did you leave your coin on the window sill for 25 years? Why not only 15 or 20 years? Did the 20th year make a big difference to its current appearance in your view? What would another 5 years on the sill have done in your opinion?

    Wondercoin

    My coin is not as pretty but technically better. Why the years - basically I got rich and did not give a xxxx. Still don't but after my second stroke I was like I need to codify these things because no one else is going to understand.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mitch - Is that an MS66?

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NickelMike said:
    Clarification please.

    You purchased 10,000, 1968 mint sets 25 years ago? That’s a lot of sets to look through!

    Second, you say you cracked this coin 25 years ago. You then say it just downgraded. Did you recently crack it out of the 67 holder again and send it in raw where it returned to you as a 67 again?

    Yes - I really cracked out the MS67 I think in 1999 - in fact multiple MS67's decades ago. I cracked like 30 MS 66's as well. Taco bell napkins. I really did purchase that many mint sets. I know my post count does not show it - but I will give you the benefit of the doubt as being a newb by questioning me.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 3:51AM

    ‘’Mitch - Is that an MS66?’’

    Nearly every Kennedy starts out as an MS66. Lol. I was at the dealer’s table when the current pop 1/0 1964-D 50C walked up in a PCGS-MS66 holder and after he bought it for a few hundred dollars. I passed on buying it shortly thereafter for $1000 or $1500 (I forget now the dirt cheap “quick flip price” I was offered the coin). But, I only graded it 67 so I passed like a fool! Shortly thereafter, it was in a PCGS-MS68 holder selling for very low 5 figures and most recently $25k one $30k if memory serves me right.

    As always, just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’Mitch - Is that an MS66?’’

    Nearly every Kennedy starts out as an MS66. Lol. I was at the dealer’s table when the current pop 1/0 1964-D 50C walked up in a PCGS-MS66 holder and after he bought it for a few hundred dollars, I passed on buying it for $1000 or $1500 (I forget now the dirt cheap “quick flip price” I was offered the coin). But, I only graded it 67 so I passed like a fool! Shortly thereafter, it was in a PCGS-MS68 holder selling for very low 5 figures and most recently $25k one $30k if memory serves me right.

    As always, just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin

    LOL - Yeah back in the day and I say that as a 50+ year old. That coin I posted is not an MS 66 - can you agree with that. It is an MS 68 now with the eye appeal. I made, for this date, the majority of everything. I have PCGS boxes stacked with every denomination. That 68-D 65FS that was my coin and it is not a FS because of the lower right corner. Props to you getting it FS - it was my coin and had been at PCGS 4 times when I owned it. Some inside is the only reason it is FS now.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 4:13AM

    ‘’LOL - Yeah back in the day and I say that as a 50+ year old. That coin I posted is not an MS 66 - can you agree with that. It is an MS 68 now with the eye appeal. I made, for this date, the majority of everything. I have PCGS boxes stacked with every denomination. That 68-D 65FS that was my coin and it is not a FS because of the lower right corner. Props to you getting it FS - it was my coin and had been at PCGS 4 times when I owned it. Some inside is the only reason it is FS now.’’

    I wouldn’t get too worked up if I read that PCGS upgraded your coin back to an MS67 on its next submission. 😉

    Now, with all due respect counselor, it is a bit disingenuous to state that when you owned what may well be the nicest 68-D Gem FS 5C in existence you confidently tried it “4 times” for the upgrade, but, thereafter, when I submitted it and it achieved that upgrade the first time through that I received a non-deserving grade! 😂

    Great to see you posting again and if you simply tell your family to contact my son Justin if anything happens to you, I am sure he will be able to steer them in the right direction on the sale of all of the coins in your impressive coin collection. Since I believe you are younger than I am, I took the liberty of assuming I wasn’t an option for you at that time.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    kudos to you on getting the FS - really. It is a 98% coin and I am sorry I sold it, I have about 5 of those still. I also have an MS67 68-S that is sooooo right there.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:

    Now, with all due respect counselor, it is a bit disingenuous to state that when you owned what may well be the nicest 68-D Gem FS 5C in existence you confidently tried it “4 times” for the upgrade, but, thereafter, when I submitted it and it achieved that upgrade the first time through that I received a non-deserving grade! 😂
    Wondercoin

    That is not even the closest coin to the finest known 68-D FS. I have 4 66's and a 66+ that are better. I only sold that coin because - I actually don't know why. :) I am going to do some things in the next few years having sit out for a good decade. If your son wants to get into it I have so many coins you need a military grade forklift.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’I only sold that coin because - I actually don't know why. :)

    Now that funny!! 😂

    Justin knows how to operate Caterpillar equipment!

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    25 years on a window sill?? Wow.... I have coins that have been in moving boxes now for 23 years... No idea what they look like, though they were all BW back then. Never tried the intentional aging like the window sill.... mainly because I do not like tarnish. However, I am sure some of my stored coins have aged a bit.. I sure have ;) Cheers, RickO

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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 6:40AM

    @Clackamas1 said: I made, for this date, the majority of everything.

    Hey Clack, I remember when you were earnestly working on that 1968 Mint Set and everyone thought you were a little "touched" for doing so. Well, maybe everyone except for Cladking and a few of us!! :D There are some tough coins in that set and I recall when you made the Full Step Nickel, I think that was the coin. You seemed to have a tough time with the Quarter, also.

    I was a prolific Mint/Proof Set searcher back then and can testify to how hard this date is although I focused more on Proof coins. For me, the big coins were the 1968-S Inverted MM Half Dollar and 1968-S/S Jefferson Nickel, but I finally found one of each. I found some really deep, deep cameo coins that I still have but was never able to "cherry" the no "S" Dime. Since I don't get to shows/shops like I used to I gave up the hunt.

    BTW, that is a lovely Kennedy, seems to be unmarked and hammered.

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    RexfordRexford Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not like the color on that half. I think it would go AT before getting an upgrade.

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    NickelMikeNickelMike Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @NickelMike said:
    Clarification please.

    You purchased 10,000, 1968 mint sets 25 years ago? That’s a lot of sets to look through!

    Second, you say you cracked this coin 25 years ago. You then say it just downgraded. Did you recently crack it out of the 67 holder again and send it in raw where it returned to you as a 67 again?

    Yes - I really cracked out the MS67 I think in 1999 - in fact multiple MS67's decades ago. I cracked like 30 MS 66's as well. Taco bell napkins. I really did purchase that many mint sets. I know my post count does not show it - but I will give you the benefit of the doubt as being a newb by questioning me.

    Been around plenty long enough myself Clackamas1. You might need to climb down off your high horse about people “questioning you”. My mind goes numb looking at a hundred or two hundred sets. I can’t imagine thousands. That’s all I’m saying.

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    mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Rexford said:
    I do not like the color on that half. I think it would go AT before getting an upgrade.

    AT is kinda what it is.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if you lost some luster and picked up some dust?

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 3:26PM

    @mr1874 said:

    @Rexford said:
    I do not like the color on that half. I think it would go AT before getting an upgrade.

    AT is kinda what it is.

    Yeah 25 years on a window sill is AT. It was in a bathroom so the vapors from detergents were the toning. Nice most-Half of it's life was exposed to the air and that is AT. You can AT a coin for sure but you can't fake this toning. If it takes decades it is not AT.

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    DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the answer in your original question lies in the PCGS guarantee.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
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    ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,420 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will keep this comment G rated. Coins are up and downgraded due to their toning. Universally attractive toning can get a full point upgrade (I have done this).

    The problem is that when it comes to supergrades, higher than MS 66, I have seen toning that I thought was incredibly unattractive which the TPGs likes (many Roosevelt Dimes in MS 67 + and MS 68 come to mind). It can go the other way.

    The toning on the first displayed half is not universally attractive. I'll leave it there.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! That’s all I can say.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wait, what just happened?

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 5:56PM

    @Clackamas1 said:
    I cracked this M67 a couple of decades ago, I made most of the MS67's because I purchased 10K 1968 mint sets 25 years ago.

    10,000 1968 Mint Sets is a remarkable feat. Was this related to the days when the Hunts were trying to corner the silver market?

    This could be a numismatic record that DLH may not want to touch.......

    And then you go on to say that was graded 67 25 years ago, and it sat in a PCGS holder in your bathroom window and toned, in the holder, to the very nice golden color? Are you just pulling our leg?

    OINK

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’It was in a bathroom so the vapors from … were the toning. ‘’

    Now hold on there! 😂

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    { It was in a bathroom}

    AHHH! Sulfur in the air from not flushing the toilet and leaving the lid up! :D

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’It was in a bathroom so the vapors from … were the toning. ‘’

    Now hold on there! 😂

    Wondercoin

    Not from his shower obviously, but from his bidet????

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’and it sat in a PCGS holder in your bathroom window and toned, in the holder, to the very nice golden color? Are you just pulling our leg?’’

    No, the “nice golden color” was developed as it sat raw in the bathroom for 23 years (since 1999). But, as we all know, urine is sterile - not that you were suggesting “foul play”.

    Wondercoin

    P.S. love you Clackamas1!

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If only the graders believed in a unitarian ethos where all roads lead to the ultimate grade nirvana. Could be they want to see the high end coins multiple times before they confer their very best grade with an express or walkthrough tier.

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    NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 888 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MS66 said:
    When I got rich I left a spare Lamborghini on a window sill but I can't remember which window sill. House too damn big.

    When I parked it, the car was silver, but that was 20 years ago now.

    Did you wrap it in Taco Bell napkins?

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 7:43PM

    and it sat in a PCGS holder in your bathroom window and toned, in the holder, to the very nice golden color? Are you just

    No I cracked the coin way back then, within days of getting it back rom PCGS, actually about 35 of them just on the halves. I think I cracked a hundred or more coins. To be honest I have no idea. I did all sorts of experiments and I would say half of them were just lost in the house move in 2006. I have more than $100 face of Roosies in all sorts of environments just to see what they do over decades. It is not AT if it takes 2 decades to tone. It can be intentional but if it takes 20+years - that is NT. I have this cleaned 1834 quarter and she is like 30 years into trying to get back the look. She probably will get it back in 20-30 years. Basically close to a century. I will be long gone by then but you have to start.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NeophyteNumismatist said:

    @MS66 said:
    When I got rich I left a spare Lamborghini on a window sill but I can't remember which window sill. House too damn big.

    When I parked it, the car was silver, but that was 20 years ago now.

    Did you wrap it in Taco Bell napkins?

    No, this coin was not a Taco bell coin, this was a bathroom window sill coin for 25 years. Here are some Taco bell coins. https://www.pcgs.com/myaccount/order-details/23030051

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 7:26PM

    @MS66 said:
    When I got rich I left a spare Lamborghini on a window sill but I can't remember which window sill. House too damn big.

    When I parked it, the car was silver, but that was 20 years ago now.

    Well everyone knows you can't be rich because you bought a Lambo. No one buys those for themselves. they are gifts.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’and I would say half of them were just lost in the house move in 2006.’’

    Wait- so only after 7 years roughly 50% of the coins failed to survive a bathroom transition?

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’Keeping the MS66 theme alive though. . .
    (If NGC can also play...)’’

    Pat: I think yours would look great in only 7-10 years placed in a select bathroom in the S CA area. But, unfortunately, not likely your home as I suspect Liz keeps things way to clean in your bathroom for anything too exception to develop in there!

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 7:55PM

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’Keeping the MS66 theme alive though. . .
    (If NGC can also play...)’’

    Liz keeps things way to clean in your bathroom for anything too exception to develop in there!

    Wondercoin.

    Ohh so wrong - keeping it clean is the key. The more vapors from whatever the better. I had a bunch of coins from that same batch sit in the crawl space - marginal change in 20+ years.

    " 7-10 years placed in a select bathroom in the S CA area."
    You jest but are again wrong. Humidity plays a part,hence a bathroom in Oregon. It is like over 50% humidity every day but also cool for most of the year. There is sa reason you always want to buy a used car from the NW. I get the jokes - but there is a reason why.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’Ohh so wrong - keeping it clean is the key.’’

    My sincere apologies. The closest I came to any of this was a Washington Quarter left accidentally for years in my underwear drawer. The Thomasville Cherrywood really did a number on it!

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:

    Wondercoin.

    Take a 20 year hiatus and you get bored. Super fun experiments that don't take seconds but decades.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2023 8:05PM

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’and I would say half of them were just lost in the house move in 2006.’’

    Wait- so only after 7 years roughly 50% of the coins failed to survive a bathroom transition?

    Wondercoin

    yeah after 30 years you would think that some people could make their own coins. It is remarkable that a hobbiest can out do a professional.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’yeah after 30 years you would think that some people could make their own coins. It is remarkable that a hobbiest can out do a professional.’’

    Dear Mr. Rip Van Winkle:

    It has now been 55 years since the 1968 coins were released, not 30 years! 😂

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,115 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’yeah after 30 years you would think that some people could make their own coins. It is remarkable that a hobbiest can out do a professional.’’

    Dear Mr. Rip Van Winkle:

    It has now been 55 years since the 1968 coins were released, not 30 years! 😂

    Wondercoin

    As much time has passed since the minting of the last Barber half dollar (1915) to the 68 Kennedy as from the 68 Kennedy to today's 2023 coinage.

    peacockcoins

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    NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 888 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    Well everyone knows you can't be rich because you bought a Lambo. No one buys those for themselves. they are gifts.

    I have a birthday coming up.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’yeah after 30 years you would think that some people could make their own coins. It is remarkable that a hobbiest can out do a professional.’’

    Dear Mr. Rip Van Winkle:

    It has now been 55 years since the 1968 coins were released, not 30 years! 😂
    Wondercoin

    that was kind of my point, I let a coin sit (actually quite a few) on a window sill for 25 years and it toned. Guess what - that coin spent more time on the window sill than it had prior to that grading. I know they are "modern" heck I am still modern but for some it strains credulity that a 'modern' coin could spend a quarter century on a window.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OT - but this coin saw my college daughter and my HS son get potty trained. She is 20 and he is 16. It sat there the entire time.

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    @braddick said:

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’yeah after 30 years you would think that some people could make their own coins. It is remarkable that a hobbiest can out do a professional.’’

    Dear Mr. Rip Van Winkle:

    It has now been 55 years since the 1968 coins were released, not 30 years! 😂

    Wondercoin

    As much time has passed since the minting of the last Barber half dollar (1915) to the 68 Kennedy as from the 68 Kennedy to today's 2023 coinage.

    Now that really puts things in a perspective.!

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    dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see there are now 2 FS 1968-D Nickels. Didn't the first come from one of these 10,000 sets? wonder when the second showed up.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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    MS66MS66 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭

    Please forgive the gallows humor but stand aside gents, I have just cornered the market on windowsill coins in far eastern Ohio.

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    MS66MS66 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    OT - but this coin saw my college daughter and my HS son get potty trained. She is 20 and he is 16. It sat there the entire time.

    You typed OT did you mean AT?

    It's okay, everyone does typos.

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