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Counterfeit Saint for educational purposes 1924 P

Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

Here are most of the facts behind this particular coin..

The coin pictured below is 90 percent gold, weighs right with the correct diameter. Tests perfect. It was purchased from an auction house (but I'm not sure when) by a dealer and sent to PCGS. After coming back counterfeit, they held it. It then passed to another dealer who submitted it to NGC thinking it looked fine. Same result. The prominent tell tale marks are the rough raised patch under the B in "liberty" and the raised vertical line on the top part of the straight line of E. This coin was missed by the auction house, sold at auction....Missed by dealer one and dealer two (who I know) was skeptical.. The coin was loaned to me for a short time for educational purposes.
The close ups are not that good but you can still see the diagnostics. I thought it might be nice to share the info here..





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    rokkyrokky Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    Would’ve had me fooled. I don’t know much about Saints. Only have one in my collection. That first pic looks like a beautiful Saint to me. What should I be looking for/at?

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    TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's good enough to fool me.
    Note to self: Do Not buy raw gold coins.

    Trade $'s
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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one of those situations where it good to know you don't know enough to make a good decision and pass that responsibility on to the experts.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a series I know. I looked at the OP and then some things I saw compared to some coinfacts photos.

    Are the raised 'dots' on the OP another bad slgn? These can be seen above the letters and between the stars on the obverse. Check above letters in Liberty (some more than others). Then going around the periphery there appears to be some more scattered ones between the stars at intermittent locations. Again I don't know but not seeing them on other photos.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    rokkyrokky Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe an omega symbol somewhere??

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2023 6:22PM

    It would have fooled me. That’s why I don’t buy raw expensive coins. Plus if a big ticket coin like that is raw I pass because why is it not in a slab?

    Frankly these days any gold coin I buy - I pass if it not slabbed.

    My advice - don’t gamble on raw stuff like that. Also - Based on that piece the counterfeiters closing the gap.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lilolme The other raised dots could be but I'm not certain. The two markers are the ones that were pointed out to me. I saw this coin before the dealer sent it to NGC, he asked my opinion of it and I thought it looked and felt "right" in hand. I was wrong.

    @rokky No O, the omega fakes are quite good also.

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    spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2023 11:02PM

    Yikes. Scary good duplicate.

    Still worth its weight in gold... I assume you would have to have copy stamped on it to legally sell it? Or melt it down...?

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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,126 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a substantial market for these types of contemporary counterfeits. I'd think with the provenance, along with the two inserts dated 35 years apart, this one would sell for a more significant amount than if it was genuine.

    Here is an example of a contemporary bogus/counterfeit coin I was watching all week (with perhaps a last-minute bid if it didn't get too crazy):

    For me, it did get a bit crazy...
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/195566906486?

    peacockcoins

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick ---Why do you call this a contemporary counterfeit? It looks like it may have been made several decades after the 1924 date shown on this coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While this may look like a real coin to the average collector, it looks bad under 10X magnification. Look at the fourth picture from the top of this thread. Just inside the rim, you can see numerous bumps, spikes, and other irregularities which are typically not found on real coins. If you check the lettered edge of this coin, you'll probably find more irregularities. Unfortunately, there are better counterfeits out there in the marketplace. If I had to guess, this fake was made in the 1960's or 1970's when common date Saints were trading for a significant numismatic premium over melt value.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold Saints have always been an attraction for me.... Have a few of them.... Also AGE's. The coin in the OP certainly has enough points to question. Raw gold is a gamble for those who know little or nothing about the coins... I would pass on that one for sure. The obverse has - in addition to the two 'tells', several other issues, some of which have been referenced above. If it tests as real gold, there is at least that redeeming value... and also, some collect these counterfeits. Not my interest. Cheers, RickO

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have a 1924 double eagle, but here is the same area on a 1927. Since the coins are made from hubs, the details would be the same for both years.

    Genuine 1927

    Counterfeit coin in the OP. Note the chucks of medal between the stars at the top.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?

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