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An 181.7 VLDS Capped Bust Half - new images of an old girl

pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 29, 2023 7:08AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I've been struggling with images again, but I think a big part of the issue has been solved now, at least for PCGS holders. I'll have to play with the white holders and see if the fixes will help those as well.

I decided to use this as a test piece after tweaking everything around, as this is not an easy coin to image. Any comments on the images, or the display are always appreciated.

I also figured I'd include my whole write up for this example as I think it it is a very interesting piece, with quite a bit of die novelty.

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1817 O-103a (103.4), PCGS AU55 cac, R6(?)
Silver-grey with touches of amber and russet, with strong, original luster. A curious example struck from a pair of VLDS (Very Late Die State) dies, which condition is sometimes referred to as the 103'b' (although Overton never recognized a 'b' state for this marriage).

The Obverse die progression has went from the 191.7 "punctuated date", to a point where the original Die Dot that shows the punctuation is no longer visible, and then to a point where a new smaller "Dot" appears in a different place than the original (lower and to the right, closer to the 7), and then that "Dot" also fades away, with the stars becoming more drawn to the segments.

In this case, the smaller "Dot" is still visible (barely), but with the stars noticeably drawn enough, that after some back and forth with members of the BHNC, I have it listed as a 103.4 for my census, the latest state for the die. Additionally, I should note, after careful study, I do not believe the newer "Dot" is a tooling mark like the first is suspected to be, but is a tight grouping of rust pits (I think I count three prominent ones).

Finally, on another interesting side note, this is also the Reverse Die for the famous 1817/4 Die Marriage (note the I's in UNITED and AMERICA missing the lower right serifs, causing them to look somewhat like J's). Some of the reverse letters and the lower olive leaf tips are also drawn strongly into the segments, and the clashing beneath the claws and through 50 C. is prominent.

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“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

Todd - BHNC #242

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty.... Nice coin.... Thanks for an interesting write up and good pictures. Cheers, RickO

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    OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2023 7:09AM

    Beautiful 103A.

    This is the same obverse die that even later was used on the 105. You may remember that I did a die progression list on the 105 here.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067074/die-states-for-1817-bust-half#latest
    I still don't have the 105 Prime. :'(

    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful coin! The surfaces look fabulous!

    I assume the reverse die letter pull is due to the use of an open collar and excessive metal flow?

    BTW - the images look pretty good but I can't shake the feeling it seems dark compared to what I've seen you do. It could just be me, but did you change anything that would cause a change in brightness?

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OKbustchaser said:

    This is the same obverse die that even later was used on the 105. You may remember that I did a die progression list on the 105 here.

    Good point Jim, and thanks for reminding me and posting the link. I updated the description in my notes to keep that information handy. :)

    .

    @FlyingAl said:

    I assume the reverse die letter pull is due to the use of an open collar and excessive metal flow?

    BTW - the images look pretty good but I can't shake the feeling it seems dark compared to what I've seen you do. It could just be me, but did you change anything that would cause a change in brightness?

    The letter (and star) pull is due to die fatigue, which then, over time, shows as more and more pronounced due to the open collar striking. Some CBH's have dates, stars and legends fading deep into the rim area, with some also losing their segments over time.

    Re' the images; I think part of it's the dark background, but also part of it is a surround I built for the Copy Stand / Lights to keep other light sources from reaching into the pictures and affecting color and glare.

    However, you may very well be thinking of some of the recent images I have been showing, a large multiple coin purchase I made for which the coins all came from and were imaged by my friend @lkeigwin , who is also the master of CBH imaging (IMO).


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Same images, white background. Which one works better for your eye? @FlyingAl

    Yep ... it is just a touch dark. Dangit!!

    .


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty

    The white background really does help! I'm not sure if you actually adjusted the brightness, but I do like the appearance of the second set of images.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty what is your lighting setup for imaging? I like it.......


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @spacehayduke said:
    @pursuitofliberty what is your lighting setup for imaging? I like it.......

    #
    Two 60W Par30, 9° Narrow Spot Shortnecks (1090 lumen) at about 9:30 and 2:30, about 18 to 19" from image platform, close in to lens body (center of bulb is about 4.5 to 5" to center of lens). Also the face on the lens is lower than face of the lights, at about 15" from mage platform.

    Saturday morning I played around and build a three sided screen out of regular cardboard that rises above the light bodies ... which seems to help when I have multiple light sources in the room (fluorescent overhead fairly close, and natural light from windows and skylights).


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:

    @spacehayduke said:
    @pursuitofliberty what is your lighting setup for imaging? I like it.......

    #
    Two 60W Par30, 9° Narrow Spot Shortnecks (1090 lumen) at about 9:30 and 2:30, about 18 to 19" from image platform, close in to lens body (center of bulb is about 4.5 to 5" to center of lens). Also the face on the lens is lower than face of the lights, at about 15" from mage platform.

    Saturday morning I played around and build a three sided screen out of regular cardboard that rises above the light bodies ... which seems to help when I have multiple light sources in the room (fluorescent overhead fairly close, and natural light from windows and skylights).

    Thanks, what Temp in K are the lights?


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Missed this one. Even I can see the late die state in that one. :)
    Letters on the reverse are cool. I have seen stars drawn more on other dates. Neat.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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