@jmlanzaf said:
The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
Man ain't that the truth! Lol
That could be because almost all Commemorative buyers are collecting the coins and not investing in them. I would wager there are very few actually collecting the coins in their mystery box. The forum has traditionally been one for collectors and not lottery players.
Cross posted response from my other thread. @WQuarterFreddie - sorry pal, looks like I won’t have any results for you after all. I couldn’t hold out any longer
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
I understand the reasons; gods know that I've been unable to let things go on many occasions on various forums.
I left the "other" TPG web forum when I found too many unpleasant personalities, and I had engaged with them often enough that I realized that (i) engaging wasn't accomplishing anything (in terms of altering malignant behavior), and (ii) I was not having any fun. When I "came" here, I just decided that I'd try very hard to ignore (figuratively and literally) those whose posts showed me that I wasn't going to enjoy seeing their posts. It turns out that, when I don't see their posts, it's easy to avoid engaging.
Anyway, I don't blame you at all for being annoyed; being gratuitously obnoxious, in an environment that's supposed to be fun, isn't ever appropriate.
@DeplorableDan said:
Cross posted response from my other thread. @WQuarterFreddie - sorry pal, looks like I won’t have any results for you after all. I couldn’t hold out any longer
No need to apologize. No judgment from me. My goal is to provide a thread for VaultBox owners to post without members criticizing them for buying one.
Seems to me you took the safe route to make a profit. You helped my cause not hurt it. 😎
@DeplorableDan said:
Cross posted response from my other thread. @WQuarterFreddie - sorry pal, looks like I won’t have any results for you after all. I couldn’t hold out any longer
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
I understand the reasons; gods know that I've been unable to let things go on many occasions on various forums.
I left the "other" TPG web forum when I found too many unpleasant personalities, and I had engaged with them often enough that I realized that (i) engaging wasn't accomplishing anything (in terms of altering malignant behavior), and (ii) I was not having any fun. When I "came" here, I just decided that I'd try very hard to ignore (figuratively and literally) those whose posts showed me that I wasn't going to enjoy seeing their posts. It turns out that, when I don't see their posts, it's easy to avoid engaging.
Anyway, I don't blame you at all for being annoyed; being gratuitously obnoxious, in an environment that's supposed to be fun, isn't ever appropriate.
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
I understand the reasons; gods know that I've been unable to let things go on many occasions on various forums.
I left the "other" TPG web forum when I found too many unpleasant personalities, and I had engaged with them often enough that I realized that (i) engaging wasn't accomplishing anything (in terms of altering malignant behavior), and (ii) I was not having any fun. When I "came" here, I just decided that I'd try very hard to ignore (figuratively and literally) those whose posts showed me that I wasn't going to enjoy seeing their posts. It turns out that, when I don't see their posts, it's easy to avoid engaging.
Anyway, I don't blame you at all for being annoyed; being gratuitously obnoxious, in an environment that's supposed to be fun, isn't ever appropriate.
Hope I wasn't one of them. Lol
Assuming you're hoghead515 there, no worries; I always enjoyed your contributions.
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
I understand the reasons; gods know that I've been unable to let things go on many occasions on various forums.
I left the "other" TPG web forum when I found too many unpleasant personalities, and I had engaged with them often enough that I realized that (i) engaging wasn't accomplishing anything (in terms of altering malignant behavior), and (ii) I was not having any fun. When I "came" here, I just decided that I'd try very hard to ignore (figuratively and literally) those whose posts showed me that I wasn't going to enjoy seeing their posts. It turns out that, when I don't see their posts, it's easy to avoid engaging.
Anyway, I don't blame you at all for being annoyed; being gratuitously obnoxious, in an environment that's supposed to be fun, isn't ever appropriate.
Hope I wasn't one of them. Lol
Assuming you're hoghead515 there, no worries; I always enjoyed your contributions.
Nope, same as here. bsshog40. Hoghead's a good guy.
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
I understand the reasons; gods know that I've been unable to let things go on many occasions on various forums.
I left the "other" TPG web forum when I found too many unpleasant personalities, and I had engaged with them often enough that I realized that (i) engaging wasn't accomplishing anything (in terms of altering malignant behavior), and (ii) I was not having any fun. When I "came" here, I just decided that I'd try very hard to ignore (figuratively and literally) those whose posts showed me that I wasn't going to enjoy seeing their posts. It turns out that, when I don't see their posts, it's easy to avoid engaging.
Anyway, I don't blame you at all for being annoyed; being gratuitously obnoxious, in an environment that's supposed to be fun, isn't ever appropriate.
Hope I wasn't one of them. Lol
Assuming you're hoghead515 there, no worries; I always enjoyed your contributions.
Nope, same as here. bsshog40. Hoghead's a good guy.
Then I must admit that I don't recognize your name, so I certainly didn't have any problems with you.
Actually, there were relatively few people I simply disliked there, but they were, IMO, remarkably obnoxious. A number of people have left there, explicitly calling those guys out. They can have their sandbox, if that's what they like over there.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Agree. When we were checking vaultbox offers for some of the first coins that were revealed, it seemed like VB would be coming in pretty strong compared to market. The subsequent coins I’ve checked seem to have offers right around market, maybe a tad more on some of the silver eagles. The gold coin offers are nothing to write home about.
As advertised. They are selling convenience, and generating headlines for the big coins. They never promised market, let alone above market. They promised an easy transaction for non-collectors who wanted to get something back for their $595.
As for the first coins, we were going off what others were saying. I always said wait until you get coins in hand and can check for yourself. For all we know the guy with the way over market quote might have read it wrong, or typed in a wrong number.
@DeplorableDan said:
Cross posted response from my other thread. @WQuarterFreddie - sorry pal, looks like I won’t have any results for you after all. I couldn’t hold out any longer
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
You're right mine is not a 2022, but that is what JM has listed with an offer price. IDK the market because I don't really collect moderns, but I would assume graded coins would/should carry a slight premium over raw bullion for those that do collect such items. At $1,934 spot plus 10% would be $212, so once again $215 is pretty weak sauce IMHO.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
You're right mine is not a 2022, but that is what JM has listed with an offer price. IDK the market because I don't really collect moderns, but I would assume graded coins would/should carry a slight premium over raw bullion for those that do collect such items. At $1,934 spot plus 10% would be $212, so once again $215 is pretty weak sauce IMHO.
That's not how it works. I think the whole 69/70 distinction for modern bullion is a marketing scam created by the TV guys, but there is undoubtedly a market premium for 70s. Which leaves 69s as something other than 70s. They cannot go below intrinsic value, but raw is often worth more than 69s because it can theoretically be submitted and come back 70, while the 69 probably cannot.
No one really pays more for a 69 than raw, except on TV. This could be an exception due to the potential collectibility of the slab, but, no, in general, a graded common bullion coin that is not a 70 does not garner a premium in the market.
Don't go by JM, or VaultBox. The actual value, before taking into account any premium attributable to the slab, is what a MS69 sells for on eBay. Which is $230-270. So, you're right, it's a little weak. But not insanely so. They never said they'd compete with retail.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Agree. When we were checking vaultbox offers for some of the first coins that were revealed, it seemed like VB would be coming in pretty strong compared to market. The subsequent coins I’ve checked seem to have offers right around market, maybe a tad more on some of the silver eagles. The gold coin offers are nothing to write home about.
As advertised. They are selling convenience, and generating headlines for the big coins. They never promised market, let alone above market. They promised an easy transaction for non-collectors who wanted to get something back for their $595.
As for the first coins, we were going off what others were saying. I always said wait until you get coins in hand and can check for yourself. For all we know the guy with the way over market quote might have read it wrong, or typed in a wrong number.
You have been the most vocal critique of VaultBox on this forum. Dan and I are adding fuel to your fire, but now you are taking the opposing view? I am a slow learner, but I just realized you are like my teenage son, no matter what you just want to argue.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Agree. When we were checking vaultbox offers for some of the first coins that were revealed, it seemed like VB would be coming in pretty strong compared to market. The subsequent coins I’ve checked seem to have offers right around market, maybe a tad more on some of the silver eagles. The gold coin offers are nothing to write home about.
As advertised. They are selling convenience, and generating headlines for the big coins. They never promised market, let alone above market. They promised an easy transaction for non-collectors who wanted to get something back for their $595.
As for the first coins, we were going off what others were saying. I always said wait until you get coins in hand and can check for yourself. For all we know the guy with the way over market quote might have read it wrong, or typed in a wrong number.
You have been the most vocal critique of VaultBox on this forum. Dan and I are adding fuel to your fire, but now you are taking the opposing view? I am a slow learner, but I just realized you are like my teenage son, no matter what you just want to argue.
I'm sorry. Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan. I'm just trying to be fair and balanced, and give them credit where they made full and fair disclosures.
One of the very first things I didn't like is that they said they'd be selling above market, due to the value of the slab, the guaranteed buyback and the pull, and they'd be buying back below wholesale.
Early reports were that buyback offers were strong. I advised people to withhold judgment until they received their own buyback offers. They are doing nothing wrong with weak buybacks. Doesn't mean I'm a fan.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
You're right mine is not a 2022, but that is what JM has listed with an offer price. IDK the market because I don't really collect moderns, but I would assume graded coins would/should carry a slight premium over raw bullion for those that do collect such items. At $1,934 spot plus 10% would be $212, so once again $215 is pretty weak sauce IMHO.
That's not how it works. I think the whole 69/70 distinction for modern bullion is a marketing scam created by the TV guys, but there is undoubtedly a market premium for 70s. Which leaves 69s as something other than 70s. They cannot go below intrinsic value, but raw is often worth more than 69s because it can theoretically be submitted and come back 70, while the 69 probably cannot.
No one really pays more for a 69 than raw, except on TV. This could be an exception due to the potential collectibility of the slab, but, no, in general, a graded common bullion coin that is not a 70 does not garner a premium in the market.
Don't go by JM, or VaultBox. The actual value, before taking into account any premium attributable to the slab, is what a MS69 sells for on eBay. Which is
I don't think you know how it works... JM is selling raw bullion, which no one but a moron would buy expecting to get a MS70. Once again you are like my teenage son, you just want to argue and get in the last word... By the way how old are you? If you're older than 19, grow up.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
You're right mine is not a 2022, but that is what JM has listed with an offer price. IDK the market because I don't really collect moderns, but I would assume graded coins would/should carry a slight premium over raw bullion for those that do collect such items. At $1,934 spot plus 10% would be $212, so once again $215 is pretty weak sauce IMHO.
That's not how it works. I think the whole 69/70 distinction for modern bullion is a marketing scam created by the TV guys, but there is undoubtedly a market premium for 70s. Which leaves 69s as something other than 70s. They cannot go below intrinsic value, but raw is often worth more than 69s because it can theoretically be submitted and come back 70, while the 69 probably cannot.
No one really pays more for a 69 than raw, except on TV. This could be an exception due to the potential collectibility of the slab, but, no, in general, a graded common bullion coin that is not a 70 does not garner a premium in the market.
Don't go by JM, or VaultBox. The actual value, before taking into account any premium attributable to the slab, is what a MS69 sells for on eBay. Which is
I don't think you know how it works... JM is selling raw bullion, which no one but a moron would buy expecting to get a MS70. Once again you are like my teenage son, you just want to argue and get in the last word... By the way how old are you? If you're older than 19, grow up.
I'm way older than 19, and I know EXACTLY how it works. JM is paying wholesale. So is VB. Those offers are $3 apart. Wholesale for many common MS69s is at or below raw.
Be my guest and ask JM if they'll pay a premium for an already graded 2022 MS69 anything. In fact, ask any wholesale buyer if they will. I've seen plenty of hot new mint issues where MS69s retail at or below raw. The dealers make their money on the MS70s, and just want to get rid of the 69s.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. By the way, right now I'm defending them, so calm down. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
No problem. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. Hopefully, the mods will tell you to calm down and ignore anything you don't like. As others have said, you are not king of the forum, and starting a thread doesn't give you ownership of anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
You're right mine is not a 2022, but that is what JM has listed with an offer price. IDK the market because I don't really collect moderns, but I would assume graded coins would/should carry a slight premium over raw bullion for those that do collect such items. At $1,934 spot plus 10% would be $212, so once again $215 is pretty weak sauce IMHO.
That's not how it works. I think the whole 69/70 distinction for modern bullion is a marketing scam created by the TV guys, but there is undoubtedly a market premium for 70s. Which leaves 69s as something other than 70s. They cannot go below intrinsic value, but raw is often worth more than 69s because it can theoretically be submitted and come back 70, while the 69 probably cannot.
No one really pays more for a 69 than raw, except on TV. This could be an exception due to the potential collectibility of the slab, but, no, in general, a graded common bullion coin that is not a 70 does not garner a premium in the market.
Don't go by JM, or VaultBox. The actual value, before taking into account any premium attributable to the slab, is what a MS69 sells for on eBay. Which is
I don't think you know how it works... JM is selling raw bullion, which no one but a moron would buy expecting to get a MS70. Once again you are like my teenage son, you just want to argue and get in the last word... By the way how old are you? If you're older than 19, grow up.
I'm way older than 19, and I know EXACTLY how it works. JM is paying wholesale. So is VB. Those offers are $3 apart. Wholesale for many common MS69s is at or below raw.
Be my guest and ask JM if they'll pay a premium for an already graded 2022 MS69 anything. In fact, ask any wholesale buyer if they will. I've seen plenty of hot new mint issues where MS69s retail at or below raw. The dealers make their money on the MS70s, and just want to get rid of the 69s.
Man you are definitely a piece of work. I feel sorry for your wife and kids if you have any.
I bet JM would offer me $217, which is a $2 premium over VaultBox. Once again, what point are you trying to make or are you just here to argue and get the last word?
Oh and by the way, not cool to edit your posts without disclosure. It is one thing to fix a typo, but you added a significant amount of text.
@DeplorableDan said:
Cross posted response from my other thread. @WQuarterFreddie - sorry pal, looks like I won’t have any results for you after all. I couldn’t hold out any longer
While I'm disappointed we won't get to see what was inside, I think you took the safer bet. Don't blame you one bit.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
No problem. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. Hopefully, the mods will tell you to calm down and ignore anything you don't like. As others have said, you are not king of the forum, and starting a thread doesn't give you ownership of anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
See? I can take a stand too. 😎😎
I will abide by the Moderator's decision. If they tell me I am wrong I will gladly leave the forum and get on with my life. 😎
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No as, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
See? I can take a stand too. 😎😎
I will abide by the Moderator's decision. If they tell me I am wrong I will gladly leave the forum and get on with my life. 😎
The only possible violation is referring to VB as a scam. Insulting the other forum members is bad form but probably not ban-able. It just seems unkind and unnecessary.
Freddie, you and I aren't friends. Although you've always had more of a problem with me than I ever have had with you. Don't leave. Why let him "win"? He's not worth it.
I dont know why everyone is getting all worked up about any of this. How many people go to a casino and lose THOUSANDS of dollars every day and then go back and do it again.
At least anyone who buys one of these doesn't lose all of their money and there is a possibility of coming out ahead. Much better odds than leaving a casino with any profit.
I do feel bad for anyone paying more than the offering price.
@DeplorableDan great flip. I wouldn't want to be the person who paid that much for one of those thou. At $595 I would probably try one.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
No problem. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. Hopefully, the mods will tell you to calm down and ignore anything you don't like. As others have said, you are not king of the forum, and starting a thread doesn't give you ownership of anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
See? I can take a stand too. 😎😎
I will abide by the Moderator's decision. If they tell me I am wrong I will gladly leave the forum and get on with my life. 😎
The only possible violation is referring to VB as a scam. Insulting the other forum members is bad form but probably not ban-able. It just seems unkind and unnecessary.
Freddie, you and I aren't friends. Although you've always had more of a problem with me than u ever have had with you. Don't leave. Why let him "win"? He's not worth it.
I agree, don't leave Freddie at least not over something like this.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
@gumby1234 said:
I dont know why everyone is getting all worked up about any of this. How many people go to a casino and lose THOUSANDS of dollars every day and then go back and do it again.
At least anyone who buys one of these doesn't lose all of their money and there is a possibility of coming out ahead. Much better odds than leaving a casino with any profit.
I do feel bad for anyone paying more than the offering price.
@DeplorableDan great flip. I wouldn't want to be the person who paid that much for one of those thou. At $595 I would probably try one.
I think the thing that bugs some people is connecting this with traditional coin collecting and numismatics. This is a gimmick that in my opinion demeans what collecting should be about, collecting coins based on some interest in the attributes of the coins. It's even somewhat disconnected from searching rolls hoping to find a gem or error. This is totally blind gambling and you know in the end the company has it set-up that they make a profit from this "exciting and innovative" new way of collecting. It's a game of chance disguised as numismatics.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
No one said a word bashing NGC, this has been about Vaultbox the entire time. I don’t consider anything @NJCoin has said to be libelous.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
No one said a word bashing NGC, this has been about Vaultbox the entire time. I don’t consider anything @NJCoin has said to be libelous.
I agree he hasn't said anything libelous about NGC but in my opinion he has against a company named VaultBox. Not just once but over and over again.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
No one said a word bashing NGC, this has been about Vaultbox the entire time. I don’t consider anything @NJCoin has said to be libelous.
I agree he hasn't said anything libelous about NGC but in my opinion he has against a company named VaultBox. Not just once but over and over again.
The "S word" has been used by several people. That would be a clear violation.
@WQuarterFreddie said:
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
Good luck with that. Libel has a specific legal meaning. It is not accusatory, attacking speech. It's also not libel to speak the truth.
As for the rest, PCGS as a private company can make and enforce their own rules here on the board. But that clause should have no parenthesis, and Oxford commas to be legally correct.
Minshull Trading is not another grading company nor grading service.
Personally, I think that PCGS is watching this with glee as their competitor's rollout stutters. I'm also personally sure that NGC had no hand in Minshull Trading's project other than perhaps cutting them a deal on the regrading of the coins.
You will note that all of the "analysis" of value in these posts and David's original article have discounted regrade fees. Zero may be the correct number. Or some nominal cost so it's hands off. Especially for the service of picking coins from piles and putting them in boxes. Even the intern needs to be paid.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
Yet, earlier, you posted:
WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭✭✭January 29, 2023 9:55AM @BStrauss3 said:
Maybe nobody here is stupid enough to fall for the scam? Nah... that can't be. Plenty of people are that stupid.
It appears you are one of them.🙄
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
Yet, earlier, you posted:
WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭✭✭January 29, 2023 9:55AM @BStrauss3 said:
Maybe nobody here is stupid enough to fall for the scam? Nah... that can't be. Plenty of people are that stupid.
It appears you are one of them.🙄
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
The way you copied this makes it appear I said the s word. To be clear that was a BStrauss3 comment not mine.
Sorry, I don't know where you got that - I clicked on "quote", before posting and then replied.
Didn't @BStrauss3 post "Maybe nobody here is stupid enough to fall for the scam? Nah... that can't be. Plenty of people are that stupid."?
And didn't you reply "It appears you are one of them.🙄 Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread>"?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
Sorry, I don't know where you got that - I clicked on "quote", before posting and then replied.
Didn't @BStrauss3 post "Maybe nobody here is stupid enough to fall for the scam? Nah... that can't be. Plenty of people are that stupid."?
And didn't you reply "It appears you are one of them.🙄 Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread>"?
I just want to thank upgrayedd for posting his box opening. It would blow a hole in my collecting budget for a month or two to buy one of these. Really enjoyed the vicarious experience. Thanks again.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
You can mute people you know? Why don't you just ignore the haters and move on to other threads?
Clearly there's a few people who can't just let a thread be for what the op asked for and have to be rude. Probably best to just mute them and move on to other more interesting topics.
No reason to leave over a few bad apples. There is otherwise a lot of great information to be had here.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
You can mute people you know? Why don't you just ignore the haters and move on to other threads?
Clearly there's a few people who can't just let a thread be for what the op asked for and have to be rude. Probably best to just mute them and move on to other more interesting topics.
No reason to leave over a few bad apples. There is otherwise a lot of great information to be had here.
Definitely a lot of great information. I will agree with you on that point.
The sticking point is there are more than 5 members that I want to ignore so I can't mute all of them.
Also, I did leave the first thread. Created a second thread just for pics and he followed me there when the first thread died. I asked him to stop and he wouldn't so I renamed that thread Pros and Cons so he and others could continue with their debate and I created this third thread and he followed me to here.
I have asked the Moderators to review this situation. Hopefully they will respond to my request.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
No problem. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. Hopefully, the mods will tell you to calm down and ignore anything you don't like. As others have said, you are not king of the forum, and starting a thread doesn't give you ownership of anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
See? I can take a stand too. 😎😎
I will abide by the Moderator's decision. If they tell me I am wrong I will gladly leave the forum and get on with my life. 😎
You don't need to leave anything, and I don't want you to. I just think, for your own mental health, you should stop trying to control what people think or post, or how they do so, as long as they are being respectful and not personally attacking anyone.
You want a thread dedicated to nothing but pulls from VaultBox. You're not going to get it. Deal with it.
There are other places to go to see pulls from VaultBox, and, in fact, the bulk of what you ARE going to see here will be links to those other sites. You can find them yourself through a Google search.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
No problem. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. Hopefully, the mods will tell you to calm down and ignore anything you don't like. As others have said, you are not king of the forum, and starting a thread doesn't give you ownership of anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
See? I can take a stand too. 😎😎
I will abide by the Moderator's decision. If they tell me I am wrong I will gladly leave the forum and get on with my life. 😎
You don't need to leave anything, and I don't want you to. I just think, for your own mental health, you should stop trying to control what people think or post, or how they do so, as long as they are being respectful and not personally attacking anyone.
You want a thread dedicated to nothing but pulls from VaultBox. You're not going to get it. Deal with it.
There are other places to go to see pulls from VaultBox, and, in fact, the bulk of what you ARE going to see here will be links to those other sites. You can find them yourself through a Google search.
Well apparently the mods agreed with me. The Pros and Cons thread has been closed with the following comments:
A reminder:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Comments
One from YouTube
That could be because almost all Commemorative buyers are collecting the coins and not investing in them. I would wager there are very few actually collecting the coins in their mystery box. The forum has traditionally been one for collectors and not lottery players.
Cross posted response from my other thread. @WQuarterFreddie - sorry pal, looks like I won’t have any results for you after all. I couldn’t hold out any longer
Founder- Peak Rarities
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I understand the reasons; gods know that I've been unable to let things go on many occasions on various forums.
I left the "other" TPG web forum when I found too many unpleasant personalities, and I had engaged with them often enough that I realized that (i) engaging wasn't accomplishing anything (in terms of altering malignant behavior), and (ii) I was not having any fun. When I "came" here, I just decided that I'd try very hard to ignore (figuratively and literally) those whose posts showed me that I wasn't going to enjoy seeing their posts. It turns out that, when I don't see their posts, it's easy to avoid engaging.
Anyway, I don't blame you at all for being annoyed; being gratuitously obnoxious, in an environment that's supposed to be fun, isn't ever appropriate.
No need to apologize. No judgment from me. My goal is to provide a thread for VaultBox owners to post without members criticizing them for buying one.
Seems to me you took the safe route to make a profit. You helped my cause not hurt it. 😎
Smart move. Solid reasoning.
Hope I wasn't one of them. Lol
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Assuming you're hoghead515 there, no worries; I always enjoyed your contributions.
Nope, same as here. bsshog40. Hoghead's a good guy.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Then I must admit that I don't recognize your name, so I certainly didn't have any problems with you.
Actually, there were relatively few people I simply disliked there, but they were, IMO, remarkably obnoxious. A number of people have left there, explicitly calling those guys out. They can have their sandbox, if that's what they like over there.
I'm assuming nothing. All I'm talking about is the optics, which are entirely within their control. Others will assume shenanigans off of bad optics. Which is why people who care go to great lengths to avoid them. Didn't happen here.
They can control who finds what by not selling to influencers or related parties. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
The unboxings didn't look right. They denied they were real. A big coin from an early unboxing was the first to show up on eBay. Maybe legit, maybe not. They could have controlled that by not using fake unboxings to hype the offering before the on sale date. They chose not to. It doesn't look right. Shenanigans or not.
Again, it is what it is, and now it is exposed for everyone to see. Everyone can make their own judgment. But don't insult the intelligence of anyone reading this by claiming what this looks like was beyond their control.
Finally, to be honest, I wouldn't know what to assume, because I don't have access to the facts. What I do have access to is terrible optics, which leads me to believe anything is possible. So I'm not getting involved, and would advise anyone seeking my opinion to do the same.
Not passing judgment on anyone who decides differently, and not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. As I've said repeatedly, this is entirely unregulated, and they can do anything they want. And this is what they chose to do. I don't like the way it looks. Period. No assumptions about shenanigans. But clear evidence of disregard for bad optics.
Okay, but this isn't 2022 and it isn't raw. It's MS69. It's probably the market, unless you think the slabs are going to carry a huge premium.
As advertised. They are selling convenience, and generating headlines for the big coins. They never promised market, let alone above market. They promised an easy transaction for non-collectors who wanted to get something back for their $595.
As for the first coins, we were going off what others were saying. I always said wait until you get coins in hand and can check for yourself. For all we know the guy with the way over market quote might have read it wrong, or typed in a wrong number.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! Excellent move!!
You're right mine is not a 2022, but that is what JM has listed with an offer price. IDK the market because I don't really collect moderns, but I would assume graded coins would/should carry a slight premium over raw bullion for those that do collect such items. At $1,934 spot plus 10% would be $212, so once again $215 is pretty weak sauce IMHO.
That's not how it works. I think the whole 69/70 distinction for modern bullion is a marketing scam created by the TV guys, but there is undoubtedly a market premium for 70s. Which leaves 69s as something other than 70s. They cannot go below intrinsic value, but raw is often worth more than 69s because it can theoretically be submitted and come back 70, while the 69 probably cannot.
No one really pays more for a 69 than raw, except on TV. This could be an exception due to the potential collectibility of the slab, but, no, in general, a graded common bullion coin that is not a 70 does not garner a premium in the market.
Don't go by JM, or VaultBox. The actual value, before taking into account any premium attributable to the slab, is what a MS69 sells for on eBay. Which is $230-270. So, you're right, it's a little weak. But not insanely so. They never said they'd compete with retail.
You have been the most vocal critique of VaultBox on this forum. Dan and I are adding fuel to your fire, but now you are taking the opposing view? I am a slow learner, but I just realized you are like my teenage son, no matter what you just want to argue.
I'm sorry. Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan. I'm just trying to be fair and balanced, and give them credit where they made full and fair disclosures.
One of the very first things I didn't like is that they said they'd be selling above market, due to the value of the slab, the guaranteed buyback and the pull, and they'd be buying back below wholesale.
Early reports were that buyback offers were strong. I advised people to withhold judgment until they received their own buyback offers. They are doing nothing wrong with weak buybacks. Doesn't mean I'm a fan.
I don't think you know how it works... JM is selling raw bullion, which no one but a moron would buy expecting to get a MS70. Once again you are like my teenage son, you just want to argue and get in the last word... By the way how old are you? If you're older than 19, grow up.
I'm way older than 19, and I know EXACTLY how it works. JM is paying wholesale. So is VB. Those offers are $3 apart. Wholesale for many common MS69s is at or below raw.
Be my guest and ask JM if they'll pay a premium for an already graded 2022 MS69 anything. In fact, ask any wholesale buyer if they will. I've seen plenty of hot new mint issues where MS69s retail at or below raw. The dealers make their money on the MS70s, and just want to get rid of the 69s.
Why are you here? Do you own a VaultBox? You have 2 other threads to post your opinion and yet you still choose to post your opinion here?
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Same reason you are. Do you own a VaultBox? Or Collectors Universe?
I see lots of people posting here who don't own a VaultBox, will never own a VaultBox, and don't think much of VaultBox. By the way, right now I'm defending them, so calm down. No need to single me out. I'll use any thread I choose. Just like everyone else.
I am done. I have done my best to deal with you but you obviously are a troll who likes to antagonize and hijack threads.
I have reported you to the Moderator asking for a review of your posts. 🙄
If other members agree with me please flag NJCoin so the Moderator will see it's not just me.😎
It's time to make a stand..😎
No problem. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. Hopefully, the mods will tell you to calm down and ignore anything you don't like. As others have said, you are not king of the forum, and starting a thread doesn't give you ownership of anything.
Maybe I should report YOU for making me uncomfortable in contributing to the community and expressing valid points of view? I'm raising legitimate red flags with respect to a new product that has attracted a lot of attention.
I honestly think I'm providing a public service, and you are attempting to intimidate me into not doing so. Why? What is your interest in VaultBox, since you are apparently neither a customer nor an owner?
See? I can take a stand too. 😎😎
.
You can't stop other people from commenting on your threads. You can, however, ignore those posts.
Man you are definitely a piece of work. I feel sorry for your wife and kids if you have any.
I bet JM would offer me $217, which is a $2 premium over VaultBox. Once again, what point are you trying to make or are you just here to argue and get the last word?
Oh and by the way, not cool to edit your posts without disclosure. It is one thing to fix a typo, but you added a significant amount of text.
While I'm disappointed we won't get to see what was inside, I think you took the safer bet. Don't blame you one bit.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I will abide by the Moderator's decision. If they tell me I am wrong I will gladly leave the forum and get on with my life. 😎
The only possible violation is referring to VB as a scam. Insulting the other forum members is bad form but probably not ban-able. It just seems unkind and unnecessary.
Freddie, you and I aren't friends. Although you've always had more of a problem with me than I ever have had with you. Don't leave. Why let him "win"? He's not worth it.
I dont know why everyone is getting all worked up about any of this. How many people go to a casino and lose THOUSANDS of dollars every day and then go back and do it again.
At least anyone who buys one of these doesn't lose all of their money and there is a possibility of coming out ahead. Much better odds than leaving a casino with any profit.
I do feel bad for anyone paying more than the offering price.
@DeplorableDan great flip. I wouldn't want to be the person who paid that much for one of those thou. At $595 I would probably try one.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I agree, don't leave Freddie at least not over something like this.
Going to take your ball and go home? Because nobody wants to play by your rules? Unless you secretly own PCGS, you don't get to make the rules on this board.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Nope. I am not making rules just trying to follow them. Here are 2 of them people like you and NJCoin are in violation:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.
I think the thing that bugs some people is connecting this with traditional coin collecting and numismatics. This is a gimmick that in my opinion demeans what collecting should be about, collecting coins based on some interest in the attributes of the coins. It's even somewhat disconnected from searching rolls hoping to find a gem or error. This is totally blind gambling and you know in the end the company has it set-up that they make a profit from this "exciting and innovative" new way of collecting. It's a game of chance disguised as numismatics.
No one said a word bashing NGC, this has been about Vaultbox the entire time. I don’t consider anything @NJCoin has said to be libelous.
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I agree he hasn't said anything libelous about NGC but in my opinion he has against a company named VaultBox. Not just once but over and over again.
The "S word" has been used by several people. That would be a clear violation.
https://sportscards.com/collections/mystery-box/products/2022-super-box
https://sportscards.com/collections/mystery-box/products/vintage-black-box-1-encased-verified-vintage-trading-card-mystery-box
Good luck with that. Libel has a specific legal meaning. It is not accusatory, attacking speech. It's also not libel to speak the truth.
As for the rest, PCGS as a private company can make and enforce their own rules here on the board. But that clause should have no parenthesis, and Oxford commas to be legally correct.
Minshull Trading is not another grading company nor grading service.
Personally, I think that PCGS is watching this with glee as their competitor's rollout stutters. I'm also personally sure that NGC had no hand in Minshull Trading's project other than perhaps cutting them a deal on the regrading of the coins.
You will note that all of the "analysis" of value in these posts and David's original article have discounted regrade fees. Zero may be the correct number. Or some nominal cost so it's hands off. Especially for the service of picking coins from piles and putting them in boxes. Even the intern needs to be paid.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Yet, earlier, you posted:
WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭✭✭January 29, 2023 9:55AM
@BStrauss3 said:
Maybe nobody here is stupid enough to fall for the scam? Nah... that can't be. Plenty of people are that stupid.
It appears you are one of them.🙄
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The way you copied this makes it appear I said the s word. To be clear that was a BStrauss3 comment not mine.
Sorry, I don't know where you got that - I clicked on "quote", before posting and then replied.
Didn't @BStrauss3 post "Maybe nobody here is stupid enough to fall for the scam? Nah... that can't be. Plenty of people are that stupid."?
And didn't you reply "It appears you are one of them.🙄 Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread>"?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes I did.
I just want to thank upgrayedd for posting his box opening. It would blow a hole in my collecting budget for a month or two to buy one of these. Really enjoyed the vicarious experience. Thanks again.
You can mute people you know? Why don't you just ignore the haters and move on to other threads?
Clearly there's a few people who can't just let a thread be for what the op asked for and have to be rude. Probably best to just mute them and move on to other more interesting topics.
No reason to leave over a few bad apples. There is otherwise a lot of great information to be had here.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Definitely a lot of great information. I will agree with you on that point.
The sticking point is there are more than 5 members that I want to ignore so I can't mute all of them.
Also, I did leave the first thread. Created a second thread just for pics and he followed me there when the first thread died. I asked him to stop and he wouldn't so I renamed that thread Pros and Cons so he and others could continue with their debate and I created this third thread and he followed me to here.
I have asked the Moderators to review this situation. Hopefully they will respond to my request.
You don't need to leave anything, and I don't want you to. I just think, for your own mental health, you should stop trying to control what people think or post, or how they do so, as long as they are being respectful and not personally attacking anyone.
You want a thread dedicated to nothing but pulls from VaultBox. You're not going to get it. Deal with it.
There are other places to go to see pulls from VaultBox, and, in fact, the bulk of what you ARE going to see here will be links to those other sites. You can find them yourself through a Google search.
Well apparently the mods agreed with me. The Pros and Cons thread has been closed with the following comments:
A reminder:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1009079/pcgs-forum-rules-and-guidelines-updated-4-19-2021