@DeplorableDan said:
I’ve been one of biggest skeptics of this product that has questioned every aspect of it, but I also bought a box as an experiment. Some of the comments in this thread have been quite distasteful. You can have your opinion without insulting the people who bought one, potentially driving them away from the forum or the hobby altogether.
I agree. Disgusting. And not just in this thread. I gave this forum a shot and I'm out.
Hopefully you will stick around. The majority of members are respectful and very knowledgeable.
I understand your frustration but don't let the minority drive you away. Fight back and speak up when they offend you!
I am beginning to see more members standing up and posting against the negativity!😎
Here is the definition of negativity .....
The opposite is that you are hopeful you will win the lottery and enthusiastic that you will win big.
The reality will come soon enough .....,
We are actually trying to help and inform the YN's.
, but we don’t want to take the fun out of it for those that choose look past that.
ah, the fun of losing money. Now I get it
You, of all people, should understand. You are a risk taker by nature, at least according to yourself. You can't win without the risk of losing.
There is, however, a difference between statistics and insults.
My risk tolerance is 100 on a scale of 1 - 100 for sure.
I do not take risks on blind faith.
I take risks on things I can see.
Jm, do you even understand what VB is doing?
I have no bone in this fight.
I did watch the unveiling video and IMO it was quite disturbing with big red flags everywhere.
@DeplorableDan said:
I’ve been one of biggest skeptics of this product that has questioned every aspect of it, but I also bought a box as an experiment. Some of the comments in this thread have been quite distasteful. You can have your opinion without insulting the people who bought one, potentially driving them away from the forum or the hobby altogether.
I agree. Disgusting. And not just in this thread. I gave this forum a shot and I'm out.
Hopefully you will stick around. The majority of members are respectful and very knowledgeable.
I understand your frustration but don't let the minority drive you away. Fight back and speak up when they offend you!
I am beginning to see more members standing up and posting against the negativity!😎
Here is the definition of negativity .....
The opposite is that you are hopeful you will win the lottery and enthusiastic that you will win big.
The reality will come soon enough .....,
We are actually trying to help and inform the YN's.
, but we don’t want to take the fun out of it for those that choose look past that.
ah, the fun of losing money. Now I get it
Not everyone lost money on these. Again it was designed to attract the sports cards hobbyist not so much the existing coin collectors.
I have followed your posts for a few years now and I thought you were above this type of comment.
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
@DeplorableDan said:
I’ve been one of biggest skeptics of this product that has questioned every aspect of it, but I also bought a box as an experiment. Some of the comments in this thread have been quite distasteful. You can have your opinion without insulting the people who bought one, potentially driving them away from the forum or the hobby altogether.
I agree. Disgusting. And not just in this thread. I gave this forum a shot and I'm out.
Hopefully you will stick around. The majority of members are respectful and very knowledgeable.
I understand your frustration but don't let the minority drive you away. Fight back and speak up when they offend you!
I am beginning to see more members standing up and posting against the negativity!😎
Here is the definition of negativity .....
The opposite is that you are hopeful you will win the lottery and enthusiastic that you will win big.
The reality will come soon enough .....,
We are actually trying to help and inform the YN's.
, but we don’t want to take the fun out of it for those that choose look past that.
ah, the fun of losing money. Now I get it
You, of all people, should understand. You are a risk taker by nature, at least according to yourself. You can't win without the risk of losing.
There is, however, a difference between statistics and insults.
My risk tolerance is 100 on a scale of 1 - 100 for sure.
I do not take risks on blind faith.
I take risks on things I can see.
Jm, do you even understand what VB is doing?
I have no bone in this fight.
I did watch the unveiling video and IMO it was quite disturbing with big red flags everywhere.
Yes, I understand what VB is doing. They are applying a trading card strategy to coins. If people want to play, I don't see the harm.
The AVERAGE retail value of the coins is pretty close to the cost of the boxes. The sweepstakes nature of the distribution, however, means there will be winners and losers. So what?
You could do the same thing with $600 worth of coins in each box. Then there would be no losers. There also would be no winners. Would people still play? I don't know. I kind of doubt it. If I want to spend $600 on $600 with of coins, I might as well choose them myself.
If people want to play and have fun with THEIR money, I don't see the harm and I'm not going to tell them otherwise. The statistics were posted. The disclaimers were read. At this point, it is just curmudgeons insulting members of the community. Repeatedly. In less and less subtle ways.
Did you see any of the giant RedFlags in that video.
I watched all the videos. And that didn't change either the statistics nor my belief that people have the right to spend their money wherever they want.
You bought crypto. The same insults were being thrown around then. It was equally distasteful.
This "game" has been common with trading cards. Red flags and all. It's ALL been said. 72 times. People can choose to play or not play. I respect their right to do so.
I, personally, do not believe that most sports card collectors have much (if any) interest in modern bullion coinage and the marketing ploy will do very little to entice them into coin collecting. A rare sports card mixed into the bunch would have done much more to attract that demographic than a mystery box of bullion.
With that in mind, I can only come to the conclusion that the boxes have been hyped to the novice (mostly young) collectors with a bit of disposable income.
@DeplorableDan said:
I’ve been one of biggest skeptics of this product that has questioned every aspect of it, but I also bought a box as an experiment. Some of the comments in this thread have been quite distasteful. You can have your opinion without insulting the people who bought one, potentially driving them away from the forum or the hobby altogether.
I agree. Disgusting. And not just in this thread. I gave this forum a shot and I'm out.
Hopefully you will stick around. The majority of members are respectful and very knowledgeable.
I understand your frustration but don't let the minority drive you away. Fight back and speak up when they offend you!
I am beginning to see more members standing up and posting against the negativity!😎
Here is the definition of negativity .....
The opposite is that you are hopeful you will win the lottery and enthusiastic that you will win big.
The reality will come soon enough .....,
We are actually trying to help and inform the YN's.
, but we don’t want to take the fun out of it for those that choose look past that.
ah, the fun of losing money. Now I get it
Not everyone lost money on these. Again it was designed to attract the sports cards hobbyist not so much the existing coin collectors.
I have followed your posts for a few years now and I thought you were above this type of comment.
Honestly, I did not know anything about VB. I kept seeing threads about VB, so I opened up one.
I watched the unveiling video with the two SAE's and one ounce of bullion platinum.
I found the video extremely disturbing and IMO harmful to coin collecting.
I love coin collecting.
I love gambling on things where I think I have an edge.
@DeplorableDan said:
I’ve been one of biggest skeptics of this product that has questioned every aspect of it, but I also bought a box as an experiment. Some of the comments in this thread have been quite distasteful. You can have your opinion without insulting the people who bought one, potentially driving them away from the forum or the hobby altogether.
Thank you. Exactly why I am trying to provide a thread free of negativity so all VaultBox owners will feel comfortable sharing their results even if they got 3 coins not worth the purchase price. 🤞
With all due respect, why not just start the thread and then allow whatever happens to happen? You set yourself up for disappointment in trying to police content to create a "safe" thread for purchasers. As though they need your protection from the opinions of strangers who think they made a bad purchase. And as though you are in a position to provide it. Talk about presumptuous.
If all you really want to do is see coins, you have the entire internet for that, with plenty of VaultBox content on YouTube and eBay. Seems to me like you create your own stress, and then whine about it. Also, it seems to me like you are way too invested as someone who was neither a buyer nor a seller here.
Also, 58 posts and counting, in addition to the other thread you started. Not a single post containing original VaultBox coin pulls. Nice job!
The tread was started to get owners to post pictures and get comments. So far no pictures posted. Why? Is it because buyers don't want to read negative comments? That would seem to be overly sensitive to what others think about your purchase.
I really don't care whether the blind purchase of coins results in a win for the buyer. The whole concept is not my cup of tea but to each his/her own.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Let's see. We've got a thread for photos of coins. But we have numerous posts calling anyone who bought the coins "stupid"... and people are really asking why no one has posted pictures of their coins.
I would like to see what they got. How much is a vault box and it’s sight unseen unknown coins? Not for me. What kind of a deal did these people get cost vs MV. I will give u one guess..
@jmlanzaf said:
Let's see. We've got a thread for photos of coins. But we have numerous posts calling anyone who bought the coins "stupid"... and people are really asking why no one has posted pictures of their coins.
You are 1,000,000% correct. So what's the point of the thread again?
The community's view towards the product is pretty well known at this point. A few supporters and many more detractors.
Moreover, a few very well researched, statistically valid analyses have been performed, right here on this forum, showing that the vast majority of boxes will be economic losers, once the so-called "fun" of the pull is over.
So, please educate me -- exactly what would be the motive of the unlucky buyer of an economic loser to out themselves, and then subject themselves to the comments of the detractors, simply to satisfy the curiosity and voyeurism of people who did not even participate?
Several threads. Several hundred posts. Zero pics. SHOCKING!!!!!
@DeplorableDan graciously volunteered to take one for the team. I seriously hope he has second thoughts about sharing with us. Anyone who thinks these are great ideas, great for the hobby, etc., should put up their own $595 and share their treasure if they so choose, rather than living vicariously on someone else's dime and starting threads, and then lecturing people on what proper posts to those threads should contain. JMHO.
@BStrauss3 said:
First off Minshull Trading did this to make money.
Second, NGC -may- have cut them a deal to get the NGCX grading in front of more people.
That's why they did this.
To make money? Horrors! I'll bet you cash your paychecks, don't you?
@BStrauss3 said:
First off Minshull Trading did this to make money.
Second, NGC -may- have cut them a deal to get the NGCX grading in front of more people.
That's why they did this.
To make money? Horrors! I'll bet you cash your paychecks, don't you?
Absolutely. I've never said anything different about the whole project. It's just the idiotic blather about "making it fun" or "enticing new people into the hobby" that is off the rails.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
Absolutely. I've never said anything different about the whole project. It's just the idiotic blather about "making it fun" or "enticing new people into the hobby" that is off the rails.
Why is "making it fun" idiotic? There are people who enjoy that sort of thing. Don't you think it's possible that there are things you don't care for that other people think are fun?
@BStrauss3 said:
First off Minshull Trading did this to make money.
Second, NGC -may- have cut them a deal to get the NGCX grading in front of more people.
That's why they did this.
I agree they may want exposure to the new grading system.
I think they may have made a mistake going the lottery way, imo, seems kinda slimy.
I do think the idea of VB is genus, for the founders.
It may make sense for them to lose money on every box for a couple of years (I doubt it), but that takes deep pockets.
I think that starting off Jumping the Shark right off is a bit much.
@BStrauss3 said:
First off Minshull Trading did this to make money.
Second, NGC -may- have cut them a deal to get the NGCX grading in front of more people.
That's why they did this.
To make money? Horrors! I'll bet you cash your paychecks, don't you?
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Uh oh three black cores, I was hoping for a red.
Wah Wah...
I haven't looked up the instant offers yet, but at least I got some gold. I feel a lot better than the poor guy who bought two boxes and got six ASE's.
@UpGrayedd said:
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
I haven't looked up the instant offers yet, but at least I got some gold. I feel a lot better than the poor guy who bought two boxes and got six ASE's.
I should have also said feel free to flame away about my math skills and/or poor buying decisions. I have thick skin and can take it, just remember everyone on this board collects small round disks, that most of us spend exorbitant amounts of money on. "Normal" people like my wife think we're all crazy, have poor math skills, and make questionable buying decisions...
@UpGrayedd said:
I should have also said feel free to flame away about my math skills and/or poor buying decisions. I have thick skin and can take it, just remember everyone on this board collects small round disks, that most of us spend exorbitant amounts of money on. "Normal" people like my wife think we're all crazy, have poor math skills, and make questionable buying decisions...
@UpGrayedd said:
I should have also said feel free to flame away about my math skills and/or poor buying decisions. I have thick skin and can take it, just remember everyone on this board collects small round disks, that most of us spend exorbitant amounts of money on. "Normal" people like my wife think we're all crazy, have poor math skills, and make questionable buying decisions...
I actually was telling my wife about these and she looked at me like I had 2 heads (on my shoulders).
@UpGrayedd said:
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Uh oh three black cores, I was hoping for a red.
Wah Wah...
I haven't looked up the instant offers yet, but at least I got some gold. I feel a lot better than the poor guy who bought two boxes and got six ASE's.
Awesome! Thank you for your reveal. I think you made out ok...😎
I find it telling that there is only one thread on Vault Box at NGC and it is not a positive one.
Then again, they don't call it Sleepy Hollow for nothing.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
@UpGrayedd said:
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Uh oh three black cores, I was hoping for a red.
Wah Wah...
I haven't looked up the instant offers yet, but at least I got some gold. I feel a lot better than the poor guy who bought two boxes and got six ASE's.
Awesome! Thank you for your reveal. I think you made out ok...😎
@UpGrayedd said:
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Awesome! Thank you for your reveal. I think you made out ok...😎
Made out OK? Only lost 50% instead of the typical 60%? Crazy world! SMH!!!
@UpGrayedd said:
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Uh oh three black cores, I was hoping for a red.
Wah Wah...
I haven't looked up the instant offers yet, but at least I got some gold. I feel a lot better than the poor guy who bought two boxes and got six ASE's.
Awesome! Thank you for your reveal. I think you made out ok...😎
@UpGrayedd said:
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Awesome! Thank you for your reveal. I think you made out ok...😎
Made out OK? Only lost 50% instead of the typical 60%? Crazy world! SMH!!!
It's actually a little less than 50%, but you are failing to take into account all of the "fun" in fighting with the website to make the purchase, the tingles while waiting for the box to arrive, and the anticipation while removing the shrink wrap, tape and seal.
Many would say that is priceless, and yet it was obtained for less than $300. How dare you judge? 🤣
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
@UpGrayedd said:
Well I'm just glad that God has blessed me and 300 bucks really isn't that big of a deal.
Honestly, that is all that is important. All I was trying to do in the beginning was educate the uninformed. Not insult anyone who knew exactly what they were getting into, nor pass judgment on how they chose to spend their discretionary income.
Now that these are out in the wild, they are what the are, and everyone can see and make their own decisions. People want to buy unopened boxes for $600, or $1200? More power to them.
Established collectors want to opine that these are stupid, and bad for the hobby? They are also entitled to an opinion. It's all good.
I was just worried people did not really understand the disclosures. Clearly some did not. That is no longer an issue, since the boxes are now out for all to see.
Of course, there is also an unresolved issue, at least from an optics point of view, regarding how fairly they were distributed, with respect to who got what, and whether there was really no way to know what was in the unopened boxes. But that is never going to be resolved by people like me, on the outside looking in, so everyone will have to make their own judgments regarding that as well.
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
@DCW said:
I'm just glad he started two more threads apart from the original one I innocuously introduced . Normally, I'd be upset that attention was diverted to a new thread on the same topic, but man this subject is volatile.
Vaultbox is the lightning rod of collectors universe right now. My notification box thanks you, Freddie
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
@jmlanzaf said:
The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
They could have required that people unboxing prop boxes identify as such when first posted, rather than after an unroar.
They did none of these things, because they wanted to pump the market before the dump on January 25th. Then influencers received valuable boxes, while common folk are receiving common coins.
ALL of this was entirely within their control. Either they are screwing around, or, best case, they don't care that it looks like they are.
@UpGrayedd said:
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
@DeplorableDan said:
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Agree. When we were checking vaultbox offers for some of the first coins that were revealed, it seemed like VB would be coming in pretty strong compared to market. The subsequent coins I’ve checked seem to have offers right around market, maybe a tad more on some of the silver eagles. The gold coin offers are nothing to write home about.
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The whole concept > @jmlanzaf said:
My risk tolerance is 100 on a scale of 1 - 100 for sure.
I do not take risks on blind faith.
I take risks on things I can see.
Jm, do you even understand what VB is doing?
I have no bone in this fight.
I did watch the unveiling video and IMO it was quite disturbing with big red flags everywhere.
Not everyone lost money on these. Again it was designed to attract the sports cards hobbyist not so much the existing coin collectors.
I have followed your posts for a few years now and I thought you were above this type of comment.
Members who feel the need to debate the pros and cons of VaultBox please use the other thread.
Yes, I understand what VB is doing. They are applying a trading card strategy to coins. If people want to play, I don't see the harm.
The AVERAGE retail value of the coins is pretty close to the cost of the boxes. The sweepstakes nature of the distribution, however, means there will be winners and losers. So what?
You could do the same thing with $600 worth of coins in each box. Then there would be no losers. There also would be no winners. Would people still play? I don't know. I kind of doubt it. If I want to spend $600 on $600 with of coins, I might as well choose them myself.
If people want to play and have fun with THEIR money, I don't see the harm and I'm not going to tell them otherwise. The statistics were posted. The disclaimers were read. At this point, it is just curmudgeons insulting members of the community. Repeatedly. In less and less subtle ways.
Jm, Did you watch the video?
The video had nothing to do with coin collecting.
How were you not disturbed by the video and did you see any of the giant Red Flags in that video?
I watched all the videos. And that didn't change either the statistics nor my belief that people have the right to spend their money wherever they want.
You bought crypto. The same insults were being thrown around then. It was equally distasteful.
This "game" has been common with trading cards. Red flags and all. It's ALL been said. 72 times. People can choose to play or not play. I respect their right to do so.
I, personally, do not believe that most sports card collectors have much (if any) interest in modern bullion coinage and the marketing ploy will do very little to entice them into coin collecting. A rare sports card mixed into the bunch would have done much more to attract that demographic than a mystery box of bullion.
With that in mind, I can only come to the conclusion that the boxes have been hyped to the novice (mostly young) collectors with a bit of disposable income.
I did buy crypto and I was wrong. I try to learn from being wrong. Admitting it is part of it.
Buying "hype" is never a good idea.
Honestly, I did not know anything about VB. I kept seeing threads about VB, so I opened up one.
I watched the unveiling video with the two SAE's and one ounce of bullion platinum.
I found the video extremely disturbing and IMO harmful to coin collecting.
I love coin collecting.
I love gambling on things where I think I have an edge.
I would never gamble against the house.
With all due respect, why not just start the thread and then allow whatever happens to happen? You set yourself up for disappointment in trying to police content to create a "safe" thread for purchasers. As though they need your protection from the opinions of strangers who think they made a bad purchase. And as though you are in a position to provide it. Talk about presumptuous.
If all you really want to do is see coins, you have the entire internet for that, with plenty of VaultBox content on YouTube and eBay. Seems to me like you create your own stress, and then whine about it. Also, it seems to me like you are way too invested as someone who was neither a buyer nor a seller here.
Also, 58 posts and counting, in addition to the other thread you started. Not a single post containing original VaultBox coin pulls. Nice job!
The tread was started to get owners to post pictures and get comments. So far no pictures posted. Why? Is it because buyers don't want to read negative comments? That would seem to be overly sensitive to what others think about your purchase.
I really don't care whether the blind purchase of coins results in a win for the buyer. The whole concept is not my cup of tea but to each his/her own.
Not one actual photo.
Let's see. We've got a thread for photos of coins. But we have numerous posts calling anyone who bought the coins "stupid"... and people are really asking why no one has posted pictures of their coins.
I would like to see what they got. How much is a vault box and it’s sight unseen unknown coins? Not for me. What kind of a deal did these people get cost vs MV. I will give u one guess..
Yep. Five out of Four idiots lie with statistics.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
You are 1,000,000% correct. So what's the point of the thread again?
The community's view towards the product is pretty well known at this point. A few supporters and many more detractors.
Moreover, a few very well researched, statistically valid analyses have been performed, right here on this forum, showing that the vast majority of boxes will be economic losers, once the so-called "fun" of the pull is over.
So, please educate me -- exactly what would be the motive of the unlucky buyer of an economic loser to out themselves, and then subject themselves to the comments of the detractors, simply to satisfy the curiosity and voyeurism of people who did not even participate?
Several threads. Several hundred posts. Zero pics. SHOCKING!!!!!
@DeplorableDan graciously volunteered to take one for the team. I seriously hope he has second thoughts about sharing with us. Anyone who thinks these are great ideas, great for the hobby, etc., should put up their own $595 and share their treasure if they so choose, rather than living vicariously on someone else's dime and starting threads, and then lecturing people on what proper posts to those threads should contain. JMHO.
First off Minshull Trading did this to make money.
Second, NGC -may- have cut them a deal to get the NGCX grading in front of more people.
That's why they did this.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
To make money? Horrors! I'll bet you cash your paychecks, don't you?
Absolutely. I've never said anything different about the whole project. It's just the idiotic blather about "making it fun" or "enticing new people into the hobby" that is off the rails.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Why is "making it fun" idiotic? There are people who enjoy that sort of thing. Don't you think it's possible that there are things you don't care for that other people think are fun?
I agree they may want exposure to the new grading system.
I think they may have made a mistake going the lottery way, imo, seems kinda slimy.
I do think the idea of VB is genus, for the founders.
It may make sense for them to lose money on every box for a couple of years (I doubt it), but that takes deep pockets.
I think that starting off Jumping the Shark right off is a bit much.
It was no different than buying a lottery ticket. Except you at least win part of your money back every time.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Isnt it possible no one on the forum has one to show? Or maybe they're bashful.
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If you followed the other thread, several people bought them. They may not have been delivered yet.
That made me laugh! Should be in the humor thread.
This is the kind of thread that leads to bannings.
It was well-intentioned but it has inevitably slid into the gutter.
How about people who bought a VB start their own threads once they receive and open them?
The responses might be a little less inflammatory when it's not a hypothetical scenario being discussed. (Or maybe not.
).
I am biting my tongue! Hard!
I posted this first part in one of the other VB threads. I initially had no interest in these because I'm not much of a gambler, and I don't collect modern bullion. However, I am a slab collector and I thought who knows maybe I'll get lucky and/or maybe these slabs will carry a premium one day. With that my interest was piqued.
I understood the odds (at least as they were presented), and I was okay with taking a slight haircut as long as the distribution was fair. I've spent hundreds of dollars on rare plastic, when the coin inside might only be worth a few bucks. I also routinely spend a few hundred dollars or more on other passions of mine like skiing or eating at a nice restaurant where the only thing I have to show after the fact was a good time. At least with VB I'll have three coins with some value when I'm finished.
With that said, I must admit I was extremely disappointed and highly skeptical when the first VB coin on ebay just happened to be the same coin revealed in the demo box, and it was listed before most ordinary people could have realistically received their box. I have no proof that any shenanigans were involved, but I don't believe in coincidences, and regardless it is a very, very bad look for VB. VB better hope that regular Joe's like me start opening up winners, because if all of the good boxes were distributed to preferred customers through the pre-sale this whole venture is doomed for failure. No one will want to play if the game is rigged.
Now for the reveal. Drumroll please.
Sealed VaultBox
Uh oh three black cores, I was hoping for a red.
Wah Wah...
I haven't looked up the instant offers yet, but at least I got some gold. I feel a lot better than the poor guy who bought two boxes and got six ASE's.
Nice. Congratulations
I should have also said feel free to flame away about my math skills and/or poor buying decisions. I have thick skin and can take it, just remember everyone on this board collects small round disks, that most of us spend exorbitant amounts of money on. "Normal" people like my wife think we're all crazy, have poor math skills, and make questionable buying decisions...
My wife thinks the same thing!
I actually was telling my wife about these and she looked at me like I had 2 heads (on my shoulders).
Awesome! Thank you for your reveal. I think you made out ok...😎
I find it telling that there is only one thread on Vault Box at NGC and it is not a positive one.
Then again, they don't call it Sleepy Hollow for nothing.
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Made out OK? Only lost 50% instead of the typical 60%? Crazy world! SMH!!!
Great, went to edit my comment again and it went to mod approval. When are they gonna fix that damn bug?
My comment was in response to @UpGrayedd vaultbox offer. Total is $357. Was hoping gold would yield a better offer than that
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It's actually a little less than 50%, but you are failing to take into account all of the "fun" in fighting with the website to make the purchase, the tingles while waiting for the box to arrive, and the anticipation while removing the shrink wrap, tape and seal.
Many would say that is priceless, and yet it was obtained for less than $300. How dare you judge? 🤣
The bizarre thing about so many internet squabbles is that they're about subjects that I cannot imagine caring about much at all. As I said on the first thread on this topic, I'm not attracted to gambling, so this game has no interest to me. But I don't have any adverse judgment for those who have the money and/or desire to play this game. And I cannot imagine why anybody would adversely judge one who doesn't want to play.
Well I'm just glad that God has blessed me and 300 bucks really isn't that big of a deal.
I should also add that while I'm not upset, as noted in my reveal post, I do have some serious questions about how the distribution was done and whether or not it was completely random. As others have pointed out it is very fishy that the coin in the demo box was the first coin listed on ebay, well before most of us normal guys received our boxes. Even if there were no shenanigans, it is a very, very bad look.
Honestly, that is all that is important. All I was trying to do in the beginning was educate the uninformed. Not insult anyone who knew exactly what they were getting into, nor pass judgment on how they chose to spend their discretionary income.
Now that these are out in the wild, they are what the are, and everyone can see and make their own decisions. People want to buy unopened boxes for $600, or $1200? More power to them.
Established collectors want to opine that these are stupid, and bad for the hobby? They are also entitled to an opinion. It's all good.
I was just worried people did not really understand the disclosures. Clearly some did not. That is no longer an issue, since the boxes are now out for all to see.
Of course, there is also an unresolved issue, at least from an optics point of view, regarding how fairly they were distributed, with respect to who got what, and whether there was really no way to know what was in the unopened boxes. But that is never going to be resolved by people like me, on the outside looking in, so everyone will have to make their own judgments regarding that as well.
@124Spider said:
NO ONE has ever judged anyone who doesn't want to play. NO ONE has ever tried to talk anyone into playing. The same cannot be said in reverse.
To be fair, if there were no shenanigans, they can't really control the look.
Ok; I apologize (a tiny bit) for not wanting to read hundreds of squabbling posts!
But that raises the question about why anyone gets upset about an intemperate opinion posted on an internet forum--that's why the forum gods gave us "ignore." If you think somebody on a forum is a moron, you're probably right, but arguing with a moron isn't likely to have a good outcome, is it?
Lol. True. But calling members of the forum names for how they choose to spend their own money seems unneighborly. And it's unnecessary. The lowest value VB has a better return than 95% of U.S. Mint products, but we don't call everyone who posts a new commem names... well, most of us.
Man ain't that the truth! Lol
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Of course they could.
They could have prevented insiders from participating.
They could have embargoed unboxings before they went on sale.
They could have required that people unboxing prop boxes identify as such when first posted, rather than after an unroar.
They did none of these things, because they wanted to pump the market before the dump on January 25th. Then influencers received valuable boxes, while common folk are receiving common coins.
ALL of this was entirely within their control. Either they are screwing around, or, best case, they don't care that it looks like they are.
You play. I'll pass.
You assumed shenanigans. I repeat. If there were no shenanigans, they can't control who finds what when.
Thanks Dan for the info. I don't plan to sell, but I would say $215 for a graded 1/10 oz. gold eagle is pretty weak sauce on the part of VaultBox with spot at around $1,934. JM Bullion has a "sell to us price" of $217 for 2022 raw 1/10 oz. gold eagles right now.
Agree. When we were checking vaultbox offers for some of the first coins that were revealed, it seemed like VB would be coming in pretty strong compared to market. The subsequent coins I’ve checked seem to have offers right around market, maybe a tad more on some of the silver eagles. The gold coin offers are nothing to write home about.
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