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NGCX new grading scale

What do we think of the new grading scale of 10 for coins? It appears NGC is moving toward the 10 scale for coins to align with cards, and all kinds of other collectibles. I am sure this will be an interesting topic to say the least.

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2022 3:46PM

    This grading system will have zero impact on me, so whatever they want to do....

    Personally I would love to see EAC come out with holders... but, I don't think many (besides me) would like to see their grades go down. B)

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Think of the money that could be made if a new grading scale actually caught on.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I think it is exciting.
    I hope I never reach an age where innovation is frowned upon.

    peacockcoins

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    Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With the scale being downsized will there be additional "Plusses" in the grading as in 8+++ ????. I don't think any kind of new grading scale will catch on easily......

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    Think of the money that could be made if a new grading scale actually caught on.

    If it catches on, it's because people perceive value in it. Is that a bad thing?

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @291fifth said:
    Think of the money that could be made if a new grading scale actually caught on.

    If it catches on, it's because people perceive value in it. Is that a bad thing?

    Depends how someone looks at it. If it "catches on" where it's necessary to have your entire collection regraded to maintain current marketability, yes, I'd call that a bad thing. It has nothing to do with actual collecting and it's a waste of money.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2022 5:02PM

    @WCC said:

    @MasonG said:

    @291fifth said:
    Think of the money that could be made if a new grading scale actually caught on.

    If it catches on, it's because people perceive value in it. Is that a bad thing?

    Depends how someone looks at it. If it "catches on" where it's necessary to have your entire collection regraded to maintain current marketability, yes, I'd call that a bad thing. It has nothing to do with actual collecting and it's a waste of money.

    You can keep your coins as they are and sell them that way if you don't want to have them regraded. Buyers don't owe anybody a guarantee of marketability.

    @WCC said:
    It has nothing to do with actual collecting and it's a waste of money.

    Figure out how much you expect you sell your coins for as they are. Next, figure out what you expect you can get for them if they're regraded and add that to the cost to regrade. If the first number is bigger, leave them as they are. If the second is bigger, have them regraded.

    No wasted money.

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great topic here, I'm listening to all of the comments :)

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there a market for circulated, post-1982 coins? IMO only coins from 9.6 (MS66) - 10 (MS70) will matter. A "5.0" will be essentially a coin found in your pocket change in terms of quality. Anything less than a "5.0" can be picked off the pavement in your local parking lot.

    Maybe there will be buyers... I just don't know any. I do know, I am not one.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @WCC said:

    @MasonG said:

    @291fifth said:
    Think of the money that could be made if a new grading scale actually caught on.

    If it catches on, it's because people perceive value in it. Is that a bad thing?

    Depends how someone looks at it. If it "catches on" where it's necessary to have your entire collection regraded to maintain current marketability, yes, I'd call that a bad thing. It has nothing to do with actual collecting and it's a waste of money.

    You can keep your coins as they are and sell them that way if you don't want to have them regraded. Buyers don't owe anybody a guarantee of marketability.

    @WCC said:
    It has nothing to do with actual collecting and it's a waste of money.

    Figure out how much you expect you sell your coins for as they are. Next, figure out what you expect you can get for them if they're regraded and add that to the cost to regrade. If the first number is bigger, leave them as they are. If the second is bigger, have them regraded.

    No wasted money.

    I get your points, but you don't seem to be looking at it from the POV of those who have substantial "investments" in their collection. I don't collect US coinage, so it will impact me less if at all.

    Concurrently if I ever do contemplate it, I'm not about to do what you suggest if this ever looks like it will become necessary. I don't think I'm alone in this perception either.

    The value of US coinage is more contingent on the holder label than any others. I'd never put "serious money" into any collectible where the financial risk increases due to some marketing gimmick. (That's what this thread is about.)

    You're right, no one is guaranteed future marketability. Collecting is also an entirely discretionary expense and if the industry intentionally takes an action which may be contrary to the collector's interest as a "revenue enhancer", they may choose to collect something else or not at all.

    YMMV

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    MarkInDavisMarkInDavis Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2022 5:50PM

    Current 70 point grading scale is silly. Why 70. And why no 54s or 37s. I guess it is what one expects from a country still not on the metric system and still using a keyboard designed to slow down typing speed. If there is one thing Americans hate it is change. I’m not holding my breath, but a change kind of makes sense to me.

    image Respectfully, Mark
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like change; but at the same time I do not like change.

    Tis a perplexing paradox. :)

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:
    Concurrently if I ever do contemplate it, I'm not about to do what you suggest if this ever looks like it will become necessary. I don't think I'm alone in this perception either.

    Every collector will have to make up his own mind about that. Not everybody will make the same decision.

    @WCC said:
    The value of US coinage is more contingent on the holder label than any others. I'd never put "serious money" into any collectible where the financial risk increases due to some marketing gimmick. (That's what this thread is about.)

    Some people collect as a hobby, others consider it to be an investment and each are likely to see things differently. The proposed grading system presents the same sort of choices that raw vs. slabbed coins did 20-30 years ago. The more things change...

    @WCC said:
    You're right, no one is guaranteed future marketability. Collecting is also an entirely discretionary expense and if the industry intentionally takes an action which may be contrary to the collector's interest as a "revenue enhancer", they may choose to collect something else or not at all.

    The industry can't effectively take any action the market won't support. If the market (which includes collectors) does support a new system, that's not what I would think of as "contrary to the collector's interest" unless one is making the point that collectors don't know what's good for them. Yes, it's a revenue enhancer for TPGs but it's entirely voluntary. If you don't perceive a benefit, you don't have to use it. Of course, this (or any number of other things) can cause people to choose to collect something else or not at all. It's always something.

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @WCC said:

    The industry can't effectively take any action the market won't support. If the market (which includes collectors) does support a new system, that's not what I would think of as "contrary to the collector's interest" unless one is making the point that collectors don't know what's good for them.

    I'm not claiming collectors lack awareness of their own interest. It would be against the interest of those adversely impacted economically, if it ever comes to that.

    In world coinage, TPG accounts for a low minority of the available supply of "better" coinage, most of the time. It's still inflated the price level for everyone who does not buy or prefer graded coins since, as you know, prices are set by the marginal buyer.

    I'm also not assuming NGC (and maybe later PCGS) is out "to get" collectors. I'm assuming this is a trial for a possible future conversion. I doubt that this new scale and the Sheldon scale will coexist indefinitely for the same coinage. My assumption is that if successful (by their criteria), this new scale will be used exclusively later, whenever that is. Same idea for any other series, like Ike dollars per my earlier post.

    For other coinage, maybe it will be attempted or maybe it won't. I'd think so if successful and if it is, then instead of regrading maybe reholdering at the same equivalent grade will be an option. This would be annoying but a lot cheaper.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:
    I'm not claiming collectors lack awareness of their own interest. It would be against the interest of those adversely impacted economically, if it ever comes to that.

    Sure. Same as when slabs were originally introduced, changes will affect people differently.

    @WCC said:
    I'm also not assuming NGC (and maybe later PCGS) is out "to get" collectors.

    Neither am I. They're businesses, attempting to develop services that people will choose to pay for.

    @WCC said:
    I'm assuming this is a trial for a possible future conversion. I doubt that this new scale and the Sheldon scale will coexist indefinitely for the same coinage. My assumption is that if successful (by their criteria), this new scale will be used exclusively later, whenever that is. Same idea for any other series, like Ike dollars per my earlier post.

    I'd agree- sounds reasonable.

    @WCC said:
    For other coinage, maybe it will be attempted or maybe it won't. I'd think so if successful and if it is, then instead of regrading maybe reholdering at the same equivalent grade will be an option. This would be annoying but a lot cheaper.

    I'm sure the TPGs would be evaluating the pros and cons of such, dependent on how the service is seen by the market.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just about have a stroke every time my phone and computer update and change things,,,,,,, guess what my answer is to this,,,,,,,,, totally unnecessary,,,,,, IMHO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    GrandAm :)
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The concept of a ten point - or 100 point - grading system has been discussed here and elsewhere for many, many years. NGC is the launchpad for such a system. We shall see what transpires. If acceptance appears likely, others will join the effort. This will be fun to watch. Cheers, RickO

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel it will bring some card collectors into coins

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    Southside7Southside7 Posts: 79 ✭✭✭

    Respectfully this isn't "innovation". It's just a way to manufacture more submissions. It's profit based and brings nothing of value to the collector.

    This is innovation that brings value to the collector! Guaranteed accurate representation of coins instead of selling purchased opinions.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Southside7 said:
    Respectfully this isn't "innovation". It's just a way to manufacture more submissions. It's profit based and brings nothing of value to the collector.

    If so, collectors won't submit their coins. Problem solved.

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    So the long term thinking is: If it takes off, my old Sheldon scale holders will command a premium after a decade or so?

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    3stars3stars Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pilot123 said:
    So the long term thinking is: If it takes off, my old Sheldon scale holders will command a premium after a decade or so?

    Probably, just like the rattlers today.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
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    kruegerkrueger Posts: 807 ✭✭✭

    When will NGC or someone else publish the Rosette stone for this new scale so we can translate back and forth
    To our present scale?
    Maybe: 10=MS70; 9=MS65 ; 8=MS60 ; 7= MS55 ; 6= MS50 ; 5=EF45 ; 4=VF35 ; 3=F15 ; 2=VG10 ; 1=G1 ETC.
    9.2 would be an MS66
    Not perfect.
    Does Anyone else want to create a Rosette Stone?

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2022 6:31PM

    @krueger said:
    When will NGC or someone else publish the Rosette stone for this new scale so we can translate back and forth
    To our present scale?
    Maybe: 10=MS70; 9=MS65 ; 8=MS60 ; 7= MS55 ; 6= MS50 ; 5=EF45 ; 4=VF35 ; 3=F15 ; 2=VG10 ; 1=G1 ETC.
    9.2 would be an MS66
    Not perfect.
    Does Anyone else want to create a Rosette Stone?

    I took a shot at creating one, but encountered some difficulties, which prevented completion.

    ONE:
    NGC lists their 70-point grades here: https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/
    There are 30 distinct grades.

    NGC lists their 10-point grades here (via the slider): https://www.ngccoin.com/specialty-services/ngcx-10-point-grading-scale/
    There are only 29 distinct grades.

    So, there cannot be a 1:1 'match'.

    TWO:
    As you 'step-through' the grades, the written descriptions do not always synch.

    I stopped when I encountered the following:

    The green rows agree nicely, but the red one does not.

    In short, it appears that NGC has added a grade between Sheldon 67 and 66 (i.e., NGCX 9.6).

    Edited for a typo.

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    DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As I have mentioned . . . . .wonderful!

    I have no interest in Moderns. Those that do have a new vista of opportunity. Good for them and their collecting needs! I applaud our ATS firm for business acumen . . .

    Drunner

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DRUNNER said:
    As I have mentioned . . . . .wonderful!

    I have no interest in Moderns. Those that do have a new vista of opportunity. Good for them and their collecting needs! I applaud our ATS firm for business acumen . . .

    It'll be fine. Change is just seen as a threat to some.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What do we think of the new grading scale of 10 for coins?

    I've already paid my dues, thank you very much. All the more reason to stick with PCGS.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My initial reaction was that I hated the concept. The current system is not broken, why fix it?

    But I have an open enough mind to see how this plays out, it might grow on me.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

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