How did Coin Dealers/Collectors Communicate with Each other Before Cell Phones

1630Boston

lilolme

From the title I was remembering when dealers would send out 'mailers' with their inventory offerings or similar available at some shows.

divecchia

Hmmm, Postal Telegraph. I wasn't collecting that long ago. When I started collecting baseball cards pre-internet and cell phones, I sent a lot of letters to other baseball card collectors and dealers that advertised in magazines and newspapers. If I saw something really rare advertised, I would call them on a landline even if it was long distance. Now, just about anybody can be found or called from the palm of your hand.

Donato

1630Boston

Maywood

Telephone and e-mail, cell phones are a recent development dating to the mid-1990's.

PillarDollarCollector

In my case by phone, stores (there was many back in the 1990's in my area not so much anymore) and shows. With the internet it is so much easier but I miss the friendships/contacts that were made face to face over time.

BillJones

Dealers talked about a teletype system in the 1960s and early ‘70s, but when I asked about using it to fill my want list, one dealer told me the grading was no good.

TimNH

Oh man, that picture above, all those 1793 cents for around a hundred bucks each. Can i have a time machine please?

Walkerfan

I remember (late 1980s/early 1990s) before the internet and cell phones, etc. Most of my big purchases came from advertisements from magazines such as Coinage & Coin World. The grading services were in their infancy, so buying raw coins was commonplace. It was dicey, at best, and the coins that you received were usually over-graded and disappointing. I learned real quick about the importance of coin shows and an in hand inspection.

RichieURich

The one that got me was the 1792 silver center cent in Unc. for $500!

1630Boston

@RichieURich said:
The one that got me was the 1792 silver center cent in Unc. for $500!

WCC

@BillJones said:
Dealers talked about a teletype system in the 1960s and early ‘70s, but when I asked about using it to fill my want list, one dealer told me the grading was no good.

I believe World Numismatics in Atlanta used the teletype system in the 70's. I was young then and don't know much about it, but my recollection is they had a terminal sounding like it was constantly printing on a dot matrix printer.

WCC

@RichieURich said:
The one that got me was the 1792 silver center cent in Unc. for $500!

I suspect this example is not as unusual as most might believe. There has been huge inflation in asset prices in the last century, far above the increase in any of the money supply measures and it's due to expanding debt.

As one example, the Agatha Christie "Hercule Poirot" episode "After the Funeral" starring David Suchet uses a Rembrandt oil on canvas painting as part of the story line. In the episode, it purportedly sold for 5,000GBP which I believe was in the vicinity of $19,000 USD at the time. Potentially worth north of $50MM today, as I'm not familiar the specific work.

The year is not given but probably in the late 30's. (All but one episode in the series supposedly occur around 1936. I haven't read the books.)

I don't know that the painting actually sold for this amount at the time, but the series includes a few other examples which seem to reasonably reflect contemporary economics.

thebeav

@BillJones said:
Dealers talked about a teletype system in the 1960s and early ‘70s, but when I asked about using it to fill my want list, one dealer told me the grading was no good.

I remember a dealer here in the 70's that had teletype. If I'm not mistaken, for numismatics, there were two different systems. "Facts' and 'NNN'. I remember dealer ads where they would give their codes for these systems, made reaching them easier.

291fifth

@BillJones said:
Dealers talked about a teletype system in the 1960s and early ‘70s, but when I asked about using it to fill my want list, one dealer told me the grading was no good.

The teletype system was extensively used by dealers beginning in the 1960's. Even small store dealers had it. It lasted quite a long time but I don't recall just when the teletype machines started to disappear from dealer's stores. Anybody know?

1630Boston

From CDN Jan 1974
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During 1973 several additional areas of the numismatic scene gained prominence on the various teletype circuits
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1630Boston

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The Teletype Corporation, a part of American Telephone and Telegraph Company's Western Electric manufacturing arm since 1930, came into being in 1928 when the Morkrum-Kleinschmidt Company changed its name to the name of its trademark equipment.[1] Teletype Corporation, of Skokie, Illinois, was responsible for the research, development and manufacture of data and record communications equipment, but it is primarily remembered for the manufacture of electromechanical teleprinters.

Because of the nature of its business, as stated in the corporate charter, Teletype Corporation was allowed a unique mode of operation within Western Electric. It was organized as a separate entity, and contained all the elements necessary for a separate corporation. Teletype's charter permitted the sale of equipment to customers outside the AT&T Bell System, which explained their need for a separate sales force. The primary customer outside of the Bell System was the United States Government.

The Teletype Corporation continued in this manner until January 8, 1982, the date of settlement of United States v. AT&T, a 1974 United States Department of Justice antitrust suit against AT&T. At that time, Western Electric was fully absorbed into AT&T as AT&T Technologies, and the Teletype Corporation became AT&T Teletype. The last vestiges of what had been the Teletype Corporation ceased in 1990, bringing to a close the dedicated teleprinter business. One of the three Teletype manufacturing buildings in Skokie remains in use as a parking garage for a shopping center

RLSnapper

Back in the late 90's I collected high end error coins. Len Roosmalen had a monthly mail bid sale. I used to call Len the day before the sale closed and bid on the coin over the phone. These were usually NGC coins. The conversation would be "do you think $2500 is a winning bid for the Off Center Franklin?" "You are gonna have to work a little harder" replies Len. I still regret not working harder on the Franklin...never seen another. The 1965 cent struck on a 1964 silver dime planchet NGC MS65 was the most spectacular coin I ever owned. Len was such a great guy that the coin arrived the same day I put the check in the mail. I miss having trusted dealers like Len.

1630Boston

@291fifth said:

I don't recall just when the teletype machines started to disappear from dealer's stores. Anybody know?
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Looks like CDN was still using it in 1999
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Our senior staff monitors all daily teletype buying and selling messages
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CoffeeTime

Coin rubbings. Letters. Visiting other collectors.

I think we have become so accustom to our digital world it’s hard to remember pre 1993 when the web became popular.

ricko

I have no knowledge of the teletype use in the coin business. However, it was used bigtime in the Navy when I was aboard ship. My rating was Radioman, which included the teletype system. Noisy and messy with the punch tape. Cheers, RickO

johnny9434

When they cooked up some beans and dogs on a 🔥 they sent up a signal

pcgscacgold

Probably AOL.

SanctionII

Smoke signals or carrier pigeons.

PerryHall

@SanctionII said:
Smoke signals or carrier pigeons.

Don't forget drums.

Jzyskowski1

CaptHenway

I find it fascinating that when he was paying by the word for the telegram Johnson felt it necessary to mention the THIRTY FIVE CENTS he had just spent.

Walkerguy21D

@Walkerfan said:
I remember (late 1980s/early 1990s) before the internet and cell phones, etc. Most of my big purchases came from advertisements from magazines such as Coinage & Coin World. The grading services were in their infancy, so buying raw coins was commonplace. It was dicey, at best, and the coins that you received were usually over-graded and disappointing. I learned real quick about the importance of coin shows and an in hand inspection.

Same experience here. So much over graded problem coins that I had to return. I eventually determined that if I paid up and mail ordered from PNG dealers, my return rate dropped to about 30% instead of 90%. Even with that and TPG grading it could still be a crapshoot. I remember ordering a Trade dollar in an NGC XF 45 holder. It arrived and was surprised to see it it had a significant rim ding with a gouge into the obverse field. I was trying to talk myself into it, it was from a major png dealer and certified by NGC, am I just too picky? Do I really want the hassle of sending it back? Yep I can’t live with that, back you go!

coiner

FACTS network on teletype.
I remember it quite well at the local coin shop. Dealers placing open bids and having the responding dealers filling the orders.
Yep big old dot matrix printer, wide carriage, making a whole lotta noise when printing.
Ahhhhh the good old days!

ernie11

Like this and this. :-)

FranklinHalfAddict

Landline, email, fax and letters I assume.

gumby1234

PerryHall

Back in the 1960's and 1970's before cell phones, personal computers, and third-party grading, most collectors subscribed to Coin World, Numismatic News, and other publications which had full page ads listing dealer inventory. If they saw a coin they were interested in, they would call the dealer on a land-line phone to see if the coin was still available and to get a detailed description of the coin. Sometimes they would try to negotiate a slightly better price. If a deal was struck, they could pay by mailing the dealer a check or some dealers would let you pay over the phone with a credit card. If the coin was unsatisfactory, it could be returned for a refund. I wasted a lot of money on postage before I figured out which dealers I could trust since many dealers over-graded their coins or sold problem coins without disclosing the problem.

jdimmick

I started collecting around 1975 , two of the shops i used to go to the dealer had the teletype machine, that would put wants, and buy lists , etc. I was very young, so i dont quite remember how it worked. In the 80's, there was coinet, same kind of principle, but more modernized for the time. The local dealer here was NC-4. Somebody can correct me, but I think this is originally where CDN got its numbers from for greysheet. ??

johnny9434

heard morse code worked (somewhat)

asheland

The answer lies within this box.

Coinosaurus

@RichieURich said:
The one that got me was the 1792 silver center cent in Unc. for $500!

$500 was the retail price. Newman/Johnson paid less, per the price code at the right ("cexcm"), which has never been completel;y decoded.

As for how dealers communicated, check out the Johnson invoices at https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/archivedetail/513125. Lots of typing and lots of postal mail.

TwoSides2aCoin

Used to be a real icy glare over spectacles. No words were necessary. That's how I remember my early days with coin dealers. They'd give ya the look that made ya run.

Communication.... remember when action spoke louder than words ?

BuffaloIronTail

Smoke signals, for sure!

Pete

QCCoinGuy

coiner

My more memorable experiences of certain older and experienced local dealers was the time they spent with me as a young collector in the early 1970s to teach me how to grade - not just assigning a numerical grade but to understand certain types of coins for strike, luster, etc. the “look” is how they put it. Those lessons you can’t learn from books. I later worked in one of those shops as a teenager buying across the counter in the late 1970s and early 1980s. What a wonderful hobby that I’ve passed down to my children and now starting to work on the grandchildren. Hopefully we will have enough young people interested to keep this going.

FrankH

Sam Sloat started CoinNet in the early 80s. That was what I used. Through Autex.
Much delay getting it installed.

skier07

Carrier pigeons