If Aaron Judge breaks Roger Maris' 61 homer record will he become the new "CLEAN" Legit HR King?
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If Aaron Judge breaks Roger Maris' 61 homer record will he become the new "CLEAN" Legit HR King?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Isn't the evidence against Bonds that they found papers with his name on them?
Aren't most, some huge percentage of, sports autographs fake? Such a big problem that reputable authentication companies won't authenticate signatures they didn't witness themselves.
I think it's widely accepted that all three of the HR kings in the early 2000's were on enhancers ... here is a photo of a bloated Bonds having easily gained 60 plus pounds on the juice.....and I am still a big fan of all 3 Bonds, Mcgwire and Sosa ...... Judge will be the Clean King in my book at least..... IF HE BREAKS MARIS' record of 61 in 1961.... 61 years ago.
Is it not possible to gain weight and muscle mass without steroids?
I have a friend who over the past 3 years has gone from being pure fat to being real lean and muscular.
Bonds was a professional athlete. That last picture was taken about 20 years in to him being paid millions of dollars to be a professional athlete. The 2nd picture was taken probably around 93. About 6 years in to his career.
I used to think McGwire looked way too huge. Now I look at pictures of him and think maybe his size isn't so out of line.
I was a lot leaner when I was young too.
@cardgeek .... I'll share this with you, brother..... I wish none of these guys did it back then .... it broke my 28 year old heart in '98.
https://www.ocala.com/story/news/2006/03/08/new-book-chronicles-steroid-use-by-bonds/31152176007/
I understand it's good for the hobby and all. I don't believe that guy is hitting the number of homers he's hitting without cheats.
I've heard people say that Bonds bought HRs. Turns out all of MLB does that though. So, they gotta go after him for something else.
Who says Maris was clean back then? Who says Judge is clean now? Nobody knows.
Easy. Until someone passed Bonds. Then no.
Maris was at least as clean as Ruth.
BTW one of the main benefits of steroids is recovery time from day to day and healing. If someone in MLB was to play in let's say 2,632 consecutive games from 1982-1998 , nobody knows if that was done anywhere near clean. Who says a person who reaches that type of impossible super-human endurance record was clean during that long 16 year multi-deacde span?
See how that works homie!
Those who b livin' in them glass houses shouldn't b castin' stones.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Three different times Bonds' samples were re tested using improved tests and he failed three times.
We cannot continue to impeach people without at least circumstantial evidence.
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No, I don't mean Aaron Judge.
I have read a lot of different stuff about Bonds. At this point I'd really like a definitive account of the situation. If you read the internet the information is all over the place and no two story tellers seem to me to be telling the same story. I don't think it's possible to get the whole, true, story. So many people want to twist it.
Even if the guy did fail 1 test 3 times. It's really hard for me to believe that everything that guy accomplished is due to performance enhancing drugs. It's a lot easier for me to believe that a lot of guys were just throwing him home runs. Just like everybody else hitting tons of home runs in MLB.
It's pretty interesting that Paul Goldschmidt is close to triple crown numbers in his league with only 33 home runs. 2 back from the league leader. While Judge is at 51 or something.
No one ever brings up expansion which diluted the pitching around the entire league in 1998. The same thing happened in 1961 with expansion, once again the pitching was diluted with more teams. Maris hits 61.
Bonds and Aaron have very similar HR stats from age 35-40. Take out the 73 and say 45 pretty damn close if you ask me.
Aaron, 44,38,47,34,40,20 = 223
Bonds 49,73,46,45,45,5 = 263
But yet people question why Bonds could hit so many home runs later in career, how about "Hammering Hank"
Hank had some weight problems as well in his late 30's & 40's
ETA
I've been pretty much undecided and/or neutral on the steroid Era controversy.
Baseball Doesn't Exist recently uploaded an interesting video
I'm not sure what difference it makes. I mean Bonds et al. hit all those home runs. They were able to do so without being suspended or facing other discipline that kept them off the field.
No one has suggested, that I've seen, that Gaylord Perry shouldn't be in the HoF because he was a very well-known cheater. Heck, his book was called "Me And the Spitter"!
Bottom line is that whatever Luis Gonzalez, Brady Anderson, or Jose Canseco were or weren't using, they compiled all their records under the rules of the game that were in place at the time, and it is beyond foolish to pretend otherwise.
In closing, recall that for quite a while many people refused to accept that Maris had the record, and that many believed that Ruth held the "clean" record.
Aaron Judge has 51 home runs. The Detroit Tigers have 76. I’m surprised they have that many. Maybe Barry can hook them up with some cream.
Bonds also admitted to using. The facts are what they are. I can't believe there's one person on the planet who thinks Bonds was clean.
By the way that was three different tests.
Oh well, he seems to be your guy, so nothing will change your mind.
Bonds' head grew each year after age 35. That's simply ridiculous. Everyone was talking about this. It was so obvious.
Sure hope that I casted the incorrect vote here
It was 3 different tests on the same sample. Right?
He did say he used. But he said he didn't know he was using. He probably said both those things to congress who was trying him for perjury. It's pretty hard to say what the truth is. People think he's lying regardless of what he says. Unless he says he did it intentionally.
He did get huge. No doubt.
I think I've heard it said that Bonds did what he did, steroids or not, in response to McGwire and Sosa. He wasn't trying to hit home runs so much before McGwire and Sosa. Maybe he could have broken the single season record either way. At least now there's something to argue about. Instead of him being 3rd on the all time list, or where ever he would have been otherwise. Maybe PEDs didn't change anything. Hard to say. What percentage of his home runs do you think he would have hit without drugs?
Pretty much everyone in baseball in the 80s and 90s used steroids prescribed by a doctor. I've been prescribed steroids.
I've heard guys on this board say that there are known steroid users in the hall.
I'm more worried that guys are throwing home runs intentionally.
Even if you watch Aaron's last home run. To me it looks like it was intentionally thrown. Were all of them intentionally thrown? Not likely. Still think Maris is fake.
I watched Pujols play all of last year. I did see him hit a few pinch hit home runs. Pujols is real slow. He's real big. Good thing he's hitting them out. He's hitting .275 this year. That's better than Ronald Acuna Jr. and only slightly worse than Mookie Betts. Why freakin retire?! Dude could play for the rest of his life hitting like that. Granted, 1/4th of the at bats. Pujols is hitting .387 v left handed pitchers. He's hitting a home run almost 10% of his at bats. To me it looks like guys are giving him a send off. Is that legit? He hit enough home runs in his career that guys can send him to 700, maybe. That's quite an accomplishment.
In football pretty much every play is important. I don't pay attention to football. Pre-covid I wasn't paying attention to sports at all. I like baseball. It's tough though. Pretty much everything about this hobby makes me angry.
If record holders like Rickey Henderson and Nolan Ryan are in the HoF, then yes Bonds will still be King.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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No way to know Aaron Judge is clean. Not saying he isn't. But we cant play this game that we know who is clean or not. Some guys blow up. Some who test positive or are accused the before picture can look like the after picture. Bonds was trying to be more of a bodybuilder on a smaller scale than the real competitive guys. Remember reading his workout routine in Muscle & Fitness. Some guys might just want the little edge. Can help in the weight room but also just with the fast twitch. Its one thing to be strong. A lot of guys cant turn that into being a better hitter. Remember thinking Tatis's dad once looked too thick. Big arms that might hurt a fluid swing. I remember seeing Bonds and Manny and Ortiz and thinking you cant get the ball past them. PEDs might have contributed.
I think discussions like this are a popularity contest. Bonds was not well-liked. So his potential transgressions are so much worse than anyone else's. Not sure he ever tested positive. People so wanted him to. David Ortiz was found to be connected with PEDs. In a report. Was it he tested positive when the results did not mean a suspension? But its unbelievable how easily that was dismissed. Think his after pic has him larger. He was MVP caliber and in his prime at like age 39 which is extremely uncommon but makes sense if its PEDs. HOF first year on the ballot? Not much of a mention at all of his history with PEDs. Kind of dismissed as oh it could have been a false test. What is the difference between Ortiz and Bonds? Ortiz was loved. So sweep it under the rug.
Judge? Who knows? Contract year. Had trouble staying on the field at times. Would it surprise me if he is taking something? Not at all. But he has a lot of fans. Noone wants to hear that suggested. Guys we like no chance he is doing that. Guy we dont like completely guilty.
I stopped putting a virtual asterisk next to "steroid era" records years ago. MLB was slow to respond and I came to terms with those records that were set before testing and codified rules and suspensions.
Maris didn't deserve one and I don't think Bonds deserves one either. It was an era, just another change in the game or external factor that impacted offense. Dead ball, live ball, WWII, integration, expansion, more travel, smaller ballparks, night games, lower mound, the DH rule, altitude in Denver, day games at Wrigley, pitch counts, defensive shifts, 154 vs 162 games, better nutrition, better training, expanded playoffs, pitch counts, relief pitching rules...and on and on and on it goes.
I respectfully disagree. The above conditions every player had to deal with.
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This made me legit LOL!
I find it humorous that there are people still in the year 2022 debating whether or not Mcgwire, Bonds, and Sosa used steroids.
>
Look it up yourself. you still won't believe it though.
Well he sure didn't ACT like one!
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Yes... he will be the man~ and new HR King!
100 bucks says those supporting Bonds here have multiple Bonds rookie cards. That is the only way anyone could be so oblivious to his roid use
I voted that Judge would be the new HR King but I can still route for the PED guys and their cards. I have many more of their cards than Judge.
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I know I’ll probably be vilified, but I still don’t understand why threads like this aren’t posted in the sports talk forum.
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i voted yes but i also believe after enough time passes everything will be legal. once baseball is completely obsolete they will stop testing players.
If Bonds never makes the HOF I'll be just fine with that !
F him... yep, don't like him.
What I'll never understand is why when Roger was going for 61, many insisted that unless he did it in the first 154 games it wouldn't be "for real"...yet I don't recall any other single season record that was questioned in that way. Like, I don't recall a player having a chance to break any other single season record and folks insisting it's not "for real" if it's not done in the first 154 games.
Even Hank Aaron wasn't exactly immune to this line of questioning, as he had almost 4000 more at-bats than Babe Ruth and never hit more than 45 taters in a season....so there were those who claimed at the time (not counting the racist/hate letter ones; that's a whole 'nother matter) he wasn't REALLY on the same level as The Bambino.
As for the original question, that depends...does Aaron Judge wash his hands before eating and after going #1 or #2? And most important of all, does he wash behind his ears?
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I don’t think falling short of the record will ever be considered the new record. Judge is a good HR hitter though and May one day give the record a run but probably like Gwynn did with chasing Williams last .400 season.
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Pictures of strong athletes mean nothing. Yes Bonds used but there is a lot of evidence - to speculate without evidence is unfair. Athletes are paid to keep making themselves better at their job - as most of us are.
Well his personality and role model worthiness never got better! And frankly, I don't see how the man can live with himself now...
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I don't understand what Bond's personality has to do with anything. He's one of the greatest baseball players of all time, I'm sure he lives with himself just fine.
I'm rooting for Aaron Judge; I hope he breaks Roger's record, 'cause he's doing it clean and without taking cheating drugs.
Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa need to admit, as Mark McGwire finally did, that they took PED steroids. The powers that be were sure able to test Olympian "BIG BEN" Johnson after he blew away the 100 meters field in 1988, and strip him of his gold medal, but MLB was feeble and powerless to make Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa be accurately tested. I wonder why? -- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
Also, thanks brad31 for posting the famous photo of Bobby Hull pitching hay on his cattle ranch in Canada back in 1966, not long after he broke the NHL record for goals scored in one season. I believe that photo first appeared in the major US magazine, NEWSWEEK. Anyone remotely interested in ice hockey, and a whole lot of other people, saw the picture and collectively crashed their chins and dropped their mouths in wonder and awe at how strong Bobby Hull was. The typically large hockey sweater covers up the arsenal, so to speak!
When I saw the pix for the first time, I was at my orthodontist's office for an appointment. I guess you can say it left a lasting impression on this Chicago suburban 11-year old Black Hawk fan. Anyways, thanks again, brad31. -- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
In McGwire's interview with Bob Costas McGwire says he only took steroids to heal from injury. He does say he tried them for a couple weeks when he was young though. I believe before MLB made PEDs illegal. McGwire says he worked hard and learned to hit.
The video that is posted above in this thread is pretty interesting. It talks about the current state of steroids in MLB and the NBA. It says they're doing next to no testing. It also says that modern steroids metabolize so fast that users have to be tested very soon after taking them for them to be detected. And that in the NBA the testing is timed so even if somebody is using, the drugs will likely be out of the users body before the test.
First time I saw it was a signed one at a card show in the 80swhen I was 12 - had the same reaction! Go Hawks!
To be clear - was not saying Bonds could be clean - but was talking about when people speculate (saw some names mentioned in the thread that have never been linked to steroid use with any evidence).
Babe Ruth record was criticized for not playing against "black players".
Roger Maris breaking the record was ripped for not breaking the record in 154 games.
McGwire/Bonds were cheats.
Aaron Judge is next
Another stat of note... in 2001 Bonds was walked 177 times, which was almost 50 walks more than the next guy. This season Judge has only been walked 79 times so far. They weren't pitching to Bonds and he still jacked 73 long balls.
No doubt Bonds' most impressive stat is his IBB. Consider that his last five full seasons, 2002-'04 and 2006-'07 (mostly after his 37th birthday) he was intentionally walked more than anyone else in history, and Pujols really doesn't have much of a chance of getting the twelve more he needs to tie those five years!