Diagnose the strike issue - 1854 Type 2 Gold $1
lermish
Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've been told two potential causes for the appearance of this coin. A massive die break (which makes the most sense to me) or a double strike. Which is it? Or something completely different?
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this should be a good opportunity for some technical numismatic jargon! (not by me)
from what i recall/know, this has to do with the annealing of the dies and how it supposedly done improperly, leading to some issues with the surfaces/structural integrity, especially considering the stress the dies are under. (possibly other things as well)
your coin is essentially the most extreme i've seen (there is a lot on morgans) and it is perhaps a bit ironic considering gold, even with impurities is one of the softest metals to strike for coinage which tells us either the obv die was REALLY poorly done and/or stuck too many coins but there don't seem to be too many late die state tells so it is most likely just a super crappy die. (lots of early mint documents about having to destroy dies from a myriad of issues)
perhaps to help visualize, if you use aluminum foil a lot, if you lay it flat, put your hands flat on it, then very minorly and slowly start trying to move them together or outwards (except it will rip outwards) you will notice some crimping nearly the outlines of your hands (more or less). there are better explanations/analogies i'm sure but this should get people in the ballpark.
here are a couple close-ups to enjoy the effect!
Thank you! That helps explain the process and how this occurred. Would it be appropriate to refer to this issue as a Deteriorated Die rather than a Die Crack?
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for sure not a die crack/break although they can probably develop along the "fault" lines. same as strong die clashes developing breaks/cracks/bisections/shattering patterns etc.
anything that compromises the integrity of the die(s) will start to lead to die failure, including just regular usage.
i won't say absolutely sure for all time and eternity this is improper annealing, not being an expert but this is what i usually see this type of effect being referred to as the root cause.
Looking for others I can say these had multiple things going on. Here are a couple that look to have earlier similarities. Then a different die clash just to show.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
This 1854 Type II dollar was struck from the worst die I have seen used on these coins. I have seen several examples which had what I interpreted to be from a rusty die. This was not unusual because the climate in Philadelphia was humid, and if the dies were not stored properly, they could rust quite quickly.
This looks like a terminal die state. It's hard to believe that the mint's quality control let this one get out of the facility. The mint was more fussy about gold coinage because pieces that were this badly made could lead more observant members of the public think that this was a cast counterfeit.
The mint was more fussy about gold coinage because pieces that were this badly made could lead more observant members of the public think that this was a cast counterfeit.
wow. a wonderful point and one not made often enough, imo.
we for sure know the public was NOT lax in contacting the mints about various coin issues considering how many transcribed docs we've just seen on this forum, even going so far as to return what was probably AMAZING errors/varieties for more "normal clean and acceptable" looking counterparts. lol (i say lol but i know there is a HUGE following of prime die state collectors and they can be tough to find)
Would rusty dies potentially leave some sort of color/rust on the coin? Or would the rust be polished off prior to striking and just contribute towards the deterioration of the die?
No, rust, normally leaves little patches of bumps that raised ABOVE the surfaces of the coin. There is no color involved.
The mint personnel sometimes try to polish the rust off the die. That sometimes results in a loss of detail. The classic example is the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel.
The roughness on the back of the Indian's neck on this 1937-D three legged is die rust.
When I see the head outlined, and the square or round outlines to the letters,
it suggests to me that the hub was pressed more deeply into the die than usual.
I see this on seated half dimes when there are outlines to several stars on some dies.
It could possibly be that the individual letters were repunched on the die, and the head element, too.
But seated silver coins from 1841 onwards had all letters and regular design elements on the hub,
so you only see repunching on the date and mint mark.
stumbled across this one working in the dateless/slick seated quarter S mint thread.
Interesting effect. I lean to the rusted die explanation. It makes sense, and likely not polished so close to the central figure. That would leave, after strike, the anomaly.... since the rust would be pulverized if not removed, and if only the surface rust removed, then the die deterioration from the rust would be apparent. Cheers, RickO
Probably a severely stressed and over-used die, showing extreme fatigue.