Yup, that's how we learn. Do you see the little halo's around the stars? That is because whoever polished it (cleaned it) couldn't get right up to the stars with the buffer wheel. The only thing original with that dollar is the surface right adjacent to the devices (stars, lettering, etc). The rest has all been buffed.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
@AUandAG said:
Yup, that's how we learn. Do you see the little halo's around the stars? That is because whoever polished it (cleaned it) couldn't get right up to the stars with the buffer wheel. The only thing original with that dollar is the surface right adjacent to the devices (stars, lettering, etc). The rest has all been buffed.
bob
With the others on the Dollar. Silver melt, okay .... anything else, hard pass. Run, Forrest, Run!
Hard to tell on the Half Dime. Based on those pictures, I would pass, but only because that's a "lottery ticket" picture. You don't really know. The reverse makes me think it might be decent and that it's not harshly cleaned (I don't think), but again, you really can't really tell the surface quality from those images.
Surface quality is key. Coupled with wear, that is the primary driver of grading, IMO. You really need to study coins in hand to "see it", but I know viewing hundreds of coins in-hand can be difficult. Sometimes un-juiced, well-balanced and high-resolution images like those on Heritage or Stack's can help, but nothing beats in-hand. If you rely on images, looked at all the cleaned coins too so it starts to make sense.
A suggestion. Find a PCGS or NGC or ANACS coin in a series and a grade range that you like and want to learn more about, and show it to us here. A lot of people here will tell you whether they think it's a reasonable example or not, and then you'll have something to study closer. Since it's already been to the one of the TPG's, your downside (price dependent, of course) is much more limited, and resale, if you decide to move on, should be much easier.
If you're looking for a nice flashy Dollar, try a common date in MS63 with as clean a check and obverse fields as you can find.
A Half Dime like that one? Try a VF25 to EF40 that is NOT flashy.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@pursuitofliberty said:
With the others on the Dollar. Silver melt, okay .... anything else, hard pass. Run, Forrest, Run!
Hard to tell on the Half Dime. Based on those pictures, I would pass, but only because that's a "lottery ticket" picture. You don't really know. The reverse makes me think it might be decent and that it's not harshly cleaned (I don't think), but again, you really can't really tell the surface quality from those images.
Surface quality is key. Coupled with wear, that is the primary driver of grading, IMO. You really need to study coins in hand to "see it", but I know viewing hundreds of coins in-hand can be difficult. Sometimes un-juiced, well-balanced and high-resolution images like those on Heritage or Stack's can help, but nothing beats in-hand. If you rely on images, looked at all the cleaned coins too so it starts to make sense.
A suggestion. Find a PCGS or NGC or ANACS coin in a series and a grade range that you like and want to learn more about, and show it to us here. A lot of people here will tell you whether they think it's a reasonable example or not, and then you'll have something to study closer. Since it's already been to the one of the TPG's, your downside (price dependent, of course) is much more limited, and resale, if you decide to move on, should be much easier.
If you're looking for a nice flashy Dollar, try a common date in MS63 with as clean a check and obverse fields as you can find.
A Half Dime like that one? Try a VF25 to EF40 that is NOT flashy.
Hmmm yes I need to do some more research. My guess would be if the price seems to good to be true then there is probably a reason for this lol. I should probably stick to yard sales rn vs online buys
It is not so obvious with this 1/2 dime. I'd have to see it in hand first. Looks like a commerce used and pocket carried example that is pretty original to my eyes. Now, do understand that I'm no grader and photos are sometimes hard to see problems.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
Try to get a feel for what real undisturbed uncirculated luster looks like from the photos....A proper Bright Uncirculated Morgan should have amazing cartwheel luster. The 1898 example you posted is really bad, harshly cleaned, not rare, and certainly not high grade. Whoever is responsible for the labeling on that 2x2, I would not trust, for they clearly no nothing about US coinage.
The silver dollar has been polished and is now a base value cull Morgan. The dime has been burnished to remove some of the tarnish and highlight the design. It is also a form of cleaning ... pass.
If you’re able to, attend a large coin show with lot viewing and look at as many coins as possible. Look at the details coins and try to figure out why they’re graded as such. Compare a 35 to a 45. Look at PCGS and NGC coins in the same grade. Look at coins that CAC liked and compare them to coins without a sticker. If you do this enough times your grading skills will improve and you’ll have a much better feel for coins in general.
Hmmm yes I need to do some more research. My guess would be if the price seems to good to be true then there is probably a reason for this lol. I should probably stick to yard sales rn vs online buys
If coins are really an interest to you, I hope you'll take the time to learn more about what's out there, and what you're looking at. Maybe visit a local show, or shops in your area ... look and ask questions ... maybe spend a little too, but keep your wallet close for a while. Most people in the hobby are fairly friendly and helpful if you're reasonable, interested and receptive.
Post stuff here and I'll pretty much guarantee you'll get straight answers, as much as we can.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Here is a pic of an MS63 coin. There are thousands of these available and they are not particularly expensive. If you search around you can probably find one in $60-80 dollar range.
@AUandAG said:
It a cleaned example and worth the value of silver it contains: $16+ is all.
bob
While the coin looks polished, it’s still worth $20+ wholesale.
So many times I see people post Morgan Dollars like this and have members here tell the poster the coin is only worth melt value. My question to those members: where do you buy Morgan Dollars, cleaned, polished, or whatever for melt? I really want to know.
DPOTD-3 'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
@AUandAG said:
It a cleaned example and worth the value of silver it contains: $16+ is all.
bob
While the coin looks polished, it’s still worth $20+ wholesale.
So many times I see people post Morgan Dollars like this and have members here tell the poster the coin is only worth melt value. My question to those members: where do you buy Morgan Dollars, cleaned, polished, or whatever for melt? I really want to know.
That’s what you will get if you try and sell the coin to a dealer in the future, not what dealers sell junk silver for. They usually charge a bit more than melt for junk silver coins.
For example here’s what APMEX is selling junk Morgan’s for today
Here is a similar one that recently sold on ebay at $20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265777457749?
A dealer is going to discount these coins as the risk is there. May not be much value in the end for a common date polished Morgan.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
You are where I was a few months ago. Buy a couple ms65/64/63 coins and really study them. Get yourself a good light and a loupe or similar 30-40x magnification. Use pcgs coin facts to study their grading methods. Get yourself a red book as they will describe some of the levels of detail and what to look for regarding weak strike VS wear.
There are a lot of details that are easy to miss with the naked eye. Additionally if possible visit a decent sized coin show but don't be suckered in by sales pitches. Just go to look and talk to some of the dealers. Many will be happy to share info and answer questions. Going to the pcgs private show in Vegas was really educational for me!
@AUandAG said:
Here is a similar one that recently sold on ebay at $20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265777457749?
A dealer is going to discount these coins as the risk is there. May not be much value in the end for a common date polished Morgan.
bob
Your link shows $25.29 plus $2.50 for shipping (Edited to add: totaling about 73% over melt). That’s a big difference from your original $16 estimate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@AUandAG said:
It a cleaned example and worth the value of silver it contains: $16+ is all.
bob
While the coin looks polished, it’s still worth $20+ wholesale.
So many times I see people post Morgan Dollars like this and have members here tell the poster the coin is only worth melt value. My question to those members: where do you buy Morgan Dollars, cleaned, polished, or whatever for melt? I really want to know.
That’s what you will get if you try and sell the coin to a dealer in the future, not what dealers sell junk silver for. They usually charge a bit more than melt for junk silver coins.
For example here’s what APMEX is selling junk Morgan’s for today
Many dealers will gladly pay over melt value for cull morgan dollars. I wasn’t just guessing at my $20+ number.
And I don’t see how APMEX asking $28.99 (which is about 80% over melt) supports your statement that dealers will only pay melt value.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The 1898 Morgan Dollar has been either cleaned or buffed or both... it's worth the silver content to me.
The 1829 Half Dime is a bit tougher to tell. It looks like the image contrast has been bumped up. It might have been cleaned long ago and carried as a pocket piece??? VF details... If those are the seller's images, I'd move on to a different auction.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Definitely walk away from the Morgan. Study the grading pictures available online or in the Redbook.... Lots of help available. Best to study coins in hand though... Big shows are good for that. Cheers, RickO
Bdog9027
Posts: 46 ✭✭
Comments
I wouldnt.
It a cleaned example and worth the value of silver it contains: $16+ is all.
bob
Alright thank you. Yes it seems I need to educate myself on how a coin is graded before thinking something pretty looking means value lol.
Is this also an example of a cleaned coin?
Yup, that's how we learn. Do you see the little halo's around the stars? That is because whoever polished it (cleaned it) couldn't get right up to the stars with the buffer wheel. The only thing original with that dollar is the surface right adjacent to the devices (stars, lettering, etc). The rest has all been buffed.
bob
Thank you for the knowledge man
With the others on the Dollar. Silver melt, okay .... anything else, hard pass. Run, Forrest, Run!
Hard to tell on the Half Dime. Based on those pictures, I would pass, but only because that's a "lottery ticket" picture. You don't really know. The reverse makes me think it might be decent and that it's not harshly cleaned (I don't think), but again, you really can't really tell the surface quality from those images.
Surface quality is key. Coupled with wear, that is the primary driver of grading, IMO. You really need to study coins in hand to "see it", but I know viewing hundreds of coins in-hand can be difficult. Sometimes un-juiced, well-balanced and high-resolution images like those on Heritage or Stack's can help, but nothing beats in-hand. If you rely on images, looked at all the cleaned coins too so it starts to make sense.
A suggestion. Find a PCGS or NGC or ANACS coin in a series and a grade range that you like and want to learn more about, and show it to us here. A lot of people here will tell you whether they think it's a reasonable example or not, and then you'll have something to study closer. Since it's already been to the one of the TPG's, your downside (price dependent, of course) is much more limited, and resale, if you decide to move on, should be much easier.
If you're looking for a nice flashy Dollar, try a common date in MS63 with as clean a check and obverse fields as you can find.
A Half Dime like that one? Try a VF25 to EF40 that is NOT flashy.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Hmmm yes I need to do some more research. My guess would be if the price seems to good to be true then there is probably a reason for this lol. I should probably stick to yard sales rn vs online buys
It is not so obvious with this 1/2 dime. I'd have to see it in hand first. Looks like a commerce used and pocket carried example that is pretty original to my eyes. Now, do understand that I'm no grader and photos are sometimes hard to see problems.
bob
Coinfacts is a great place to start learning about the 1898 Morgan. Here is the link: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1898-1/7252
Try to get a feel for what real undisturbed uncirculated luster looks like from the photos....A proper Bright Uncirculated Morgan should have amazing cartwheel luster. The 1898 example you posted is really bad, harshly cleaned, not rare, and certainly not high grade. Whoever is responsible for the labeling on that 2x2, I would not trust, for they clearly no nothing about US coinage.
The silver dollar has been polished and is now a base value cull Morgan. The dime has been burnished to remove some of the tarnish and highlight the design. It is also a form of cleaning ... pass.
If you’re able to, attend a large coin show with lot viewing and look at as many coins as possible. Look at the details coins and try to figure out why they’re graded as such. Compare a 35 to a 45. Look at PCGS and NGC coins in the same grade. Look at coins that CAC liked and compare them to coins without a sticker. If you do this enough times your grading skills will improve and you’ll have a much better feel for coins in general.
Plenty of counterfeits and shenanigan's in garage sale land. This thread is up top right now, and it's absolutely worth a read. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1080010/shocking-article-on-how-fake-coins-are-made-with-pictures
If coins are really an interest to you, I hope you'll take the time to learn more about what's out there, and what you're looking at. Maybe visit a local show, or shops in your area ... look and ask questions ... maybe spend a little too, but keep your wallet close for a while. Most people in the hobby are fairly friendly and helpful if you're reasonable, interested and receptive.
Post stuff here and I'll pretty much guarantee you'll get straight answers, as much as we can.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Thank you all for your expertise 😎
I appreciate it
That dollar is nasty and Not a "rare date" or "High grade"
I wouldn’t buy that from my LCS Morgan pick bin.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
Here is a pic of an MS63 coin. There are thousands of these available and they are not particularly expensive. If you search around you can probably find one in $60-80 dollar range.
While the coin looks polished, it’s still worth $20+ wholesale.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would let the party with that coin know that the description on the holder is deceptive.
Yuck. Not even close
So many times I see people post Morgan Dollars like this and have members here tell the poster the coin is only worth melt value. My question to those members: where do you buy Morgan Dollars, cleaned, polished, or whatever for melt? I really want to know.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
No, I would not. It's been cleaned to start
That’s what you will get if you try and sell the coin to a dealer in the future, not what dealers sell junk silver for. They usually charge a bit more than melt for junk silver coins.
For example here’s what APMEX is selling junk Morgan’s for today
Mr_Spud
Here is a similar one that recently sold on ebay at $20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265777457749?
A dealer is going to discount these coins as the risk is there. May not be much value in the end for a common date polished Morgan.
bob
grrr. those 1829 curl base half dime obverses!
You are where I was a few months ago. Buy a couple ms65/64/63 coins and really study them. Get yourself a good light and a loupe or similar 30-40x magnification. Use pcgs coin facts to study their grading methods. Get yourself a red book as they will describe some of the levels of detail and what to look for regarding weak strike VS wear.
There are a lot of details that are easy to miss with the naked eye. Additionally if possible visit a decent sized coin show but don't be suckered in by sales pitches. Just go to look and talk to some of the dealers. Many will be happy to share info and answer questions. Going to the pcgs private show in Vegas was really educational for me!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Your link shows $25.29 plus $2.50 for shipping (Edited to add: totaling about 73% over melt). That’s a big difference from your original $16 estimate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Many dealers will gladly pay over melt value for cull morgan dollars. I wasn’t just guessing at my $20+ number.
And I don’t see how APMEX asking $28.99 (which is about 80% over melt) supports your statement that dealers will only pay melt value.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No... this is really unfortunate and I'll leave it at that
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
For what it's worth, I recently got $24 a coin for cull Morgans on the BST.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
No. As a dealer, I will sell you better for half that. ( better act fast )
A shameless plug
The 1898 Morgan Dollar has been either cleaned or buffed or both... it's worth the silver content to me.
The 1829 Half Dime is a bit tougher to tell. It looks like the image contrast has been bumped up. It might have been cleaned long ago and carried as a pocket piece??? VF details... If those are the seller's images, I'd move on to a different auction.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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Definitely walk away from the Morgan. Study the grading pictures available online or in the Redbook.... Lots of help available. Best to study coins in hand though... Big shows are good for that. Cheers, RickO
Yes but it's RARE, I'll give ya $25