"1875-CC 50c" with the PCGS chip icon on the reverse...

burfle23

This one initially made me nervous- 1st counterfeit PCGS slab with the chip icon on the back I had seen.

From China, fortunately there was no active chip to scan; the front barcode was accurate and took one to the correct cert on PCGS's website when scanned..

The Chinese seller apparently used images of the actual coin sold by Paradime Coins sometime ago; that example had a CAC bean but no images available on the on-line cert (typical target).

I notified Paradime who thanked me and stated they notified PCGS; I also notified counterfeit fighter Doug Davis with the link to the seller's website.

https://pinncio.com/products/1875-cc-seated-liberty-half-dollar?fbclid=IwAR0cnu9iCxkLNMTzBzveQ5_090HcNB8GI32oVOA3lMx7m_fNdAom7m8Np40_aem_ATC6qLVe7j_31HvxT25pADJQFkJdArla_dHshxMSja6S1dPi-LIln6fZCKVtVde34sm2w7Ocyz1Bdp0Hxw-mBHPVe07nuGIi8OCLp1INP2HSmwArXYx3R1MXW1CXOl4wXqQ

Interesting side note, the Chinese website included an image of an 1875-CC twenty cent piece from the 2015 Coin World article Fake 1875-CC 20-cent coin: Detecting Counterfeits...

Best, Jack.

ricko

Wow... Thanks for the detailed account and pictures. Getting scary. Cheers, RickO

WilliamF

at least the counterfeit in this instance is pretty outrageous and easy to tell what it is.

kaz

The fake slabs and labels keep getting better and better; fortunately in this case the fake coin wasn't so hot.

lilolme

When I went to check the cert it is no longer active/good.
However if I am understanding this one correctly and/or the information above, there appears to be many inconsistencies.
First in the OP the cert lookup identified a standard holder and the fake coin was in an NFC holder.
The inner ring is messed up.
I can't tell if there is a pcgs logo in the lower right obverse of the slab.
There is not a security lock logo in the lower left of the fake slab as should be for this type of holder.
The back label of the fake NFC holder is okay but:
The security lock icon should not be solid (fake) but has an outline around it.
The PCGS logo has a TM (fake) and should be circled R.
The PCGS logo lettering and gold bar and color are inconsistent with the actual (as previous or similar to previous).
The gold shield and printing of the dark line are offset (similar to the PCGS logo stuff).
Again this has been somewhat a problem, that is getting this reverse label correct. But one has to look closely and often it is close or good enough.

Here is the OP picture and then the pcgs picture from their holder museum.

burfle23

Paradime Coin contacted both the Chinese seller and PCGS; the seller removed the original images and replaced them with these:

This time they used a cert with an image:

PCGS apparently nuked the initial cert as previously reported here!

burfle23

Seller picked an example with images the 2nd time...

LanceNewmanOCC

@burfle23 said:

have you had any of the newer fake holders to hold up to the light and see if they contain the visible wires/chips between the front/rear cert? i did it to mine today and it runs almost the entire length of the cert.

FlyingAl

The PCGS cert images appear to match the second coin.

burfle23

Latest of this holder type for sale on the internet:

gumby1234

Getting scary. I would not want to be completely uneducated in numismatics these days. On the genuine holders with the chip is there something available that can be used to determine a genuine from a fake holder?

burfle23

@gumby1234 said:
Getting scary. I would not want to be completely uneducated in numismatics these days. On the genuine holders with the chip is there something available that can be used to determine a genuine from a fake holder?

No PCGS on front of holder, subtle differences in the rear label: genuine on left:

lilolme

@gumby1234 said:
Getting scary. I would not want to be completely uneducated in numismatics these days. On the genuine holders with the chip is there something available that can be used to determine a genuine from a fake holder?

I posted above in this thread several things I found. On this one it can be confirmed that the holder on the obverse side does not have the pcgs logo in the lower right either (it does not have the secure logo on the obverse lower left).

And again when looking up the cert on pcgs it says it is a standard holder and not NFC. And on this one the inner coin ring is changed again and completely wrong (four prongs not three and at 12, 3, 6, 9)

And I see on this one it says Morgan on the label but I believe this is only true for the 1921 where there is a Peace and Morgan dollar but this might be specific to this 'faker'.

previous post
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13309252/#Comment_13309252

BillJones

@burfle23 said:
Latest of this holder type for sale on the internet:

Is this holder genuine or not? I think that the coin is a fake.

We really should identify the bad stuff every time we post information about counterfeit coins and holders.

Downtown1974

Ughhhhhh……the better these counterfeit coins and slabs become, the closer I come to just packing it in.
There’s a tipping point to where this hobby will become more cautionary than enjoyable and I can feel it approaching.

daltex

Know your dealer!!

Downtown1974

@BillJones said:

@burfle23 said:
Latest of this holder type for sale on the internet:

Is this holder genuine or not? I think that the coin is a fake.

We really should identify the bad stuff every time we post information about counterfeit coins and holders.

That’s a fake holder, Bill

Zoins

@burfle23 said:

It's very interesting to see a slab with "Gold Shield" on the back of the insert, but not the front.

How common are these?

LanceNewmanOCC

@burfle23 said:
Latest of this holder type for sale on the internet:

you know one of the most brutal ironies to all this. the counterfeiters, wherever they may be, put all the time, effort, cost etc into making them the best they know how/can and have to keep working to improve as do we to detect their junk and i think we are closer now than ever that they are realizing in order to fake these sufficiently enough to pass them on any large scale, they have to put in more than they have/are willing to, to the point that they are starting to get close to basically running actual mints authorized or not. really, the only way to improve from here is to put forth nearly the same effort/cost/talent etc in order to just do it honestly. they could be making tokens, bullion stuff, etc with all their efforts/time/money and be doing it honestly with a MUCH wider acceptance of their efforts. not too dissimilar to CWT, HTT, CARR etc. such a shame, as it may actual prove kinda neat to see what they, whomever/wherever the are, could do legitimately. i said it YEARS ago, they put in 10x the effort for 1/10th of the benefit by doing it dishonestly. makes you wonder really, how smart and creative are they really?

lilolme

@Zoins said:

@burfle23 said:

It's very interesting to see a slab with "Gold Shield" on the back of the insert, but not the front.

How common are these?

.
I believe they may be somewhat common. I had several of them but did a re-holder recently on them. I still have the photos. Mine were sent in in mid-2019 under the regular submission and this is when regular submission was not gold shield as shown on my pcgs submission form. So not certain why they have that on the reverse.

Also the pcgs museum of holders does not show this combination of labels. It does not show a gold shield on the reverse label until the most recent slab with NFC. This is true for a gold shield or not gold shield holder. Maybe pcgs needs to add this label.

Below is from pcgs museum of holders for may 2015 to oct 2020 (Gen 6.0) for non-gold shield but does not agree with what I received or the above.

Zoins

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@burfle23 said:
Latest of this holder type for sale on the internet:

you know one of the most brutal ironies to all this. the counterfeiters, wherever they may be, put all the time, effort, cost etc into making them the best they know how/can and have to keep working to improve as do we to detect their junk and i think we are closer now than ever that they are realizing in order to fake these sufficiently enough to pass them on any large scale, they have to put in more than they have/are willing to, to the point that they are starting to get close to basically running actual mints unauthorized or not. really, the only way to improve from here is to put forth nearly the same effort/cost/talent etc in order to just do it honestly. they could be making tokens, bullion stuff, etc with all their efforts/time/money and be doing it honestly with a MUCH wider acceptance of their efforts. not too dissimilar to CWT, HTT, CARR etc. such a shame, as it may actual prove kinda neat to see what they, whomever/wherever the are, could do legitimately. i said it YEARS ago, they put in 10x the effort for 1/10th of the benefit by doing it dishonestly. makes you wonder really, how smart and creative are they really?

At least one of them is using former US government mint presses from the US Mint in Philadelphia.

gumby1234

There should be some kind of scanning device available so dealers and collectors could scan the chip.

Kliao

@gumby1234 said:
There should be some kind of scanning device available so dealers and collectors could scan the chip.

You can scan the chip with your phone on the PCGS app.

gumby1234

@Kliao Oh I didn't know that. I guess ill have to download the app. Thanks

burfle23

@Downtown1974 said:

@BillJones said:

@burfle23 said:
Latest of this holder type for sale on the internet:

Is this holder genuine or not? I think that the coin is a fake.

We really should identify the bad stuff every time we post information about counterfeit coins and holders.

That’s a fake holder, Bill

The holder is also too thick to fit in a PCGS plastic slab box.

LanceNewmanOCC

@burfle23 said:
The holder is also too thick to fit in a PCGS plastic slab box.

.
would you mind doing like a top 5 signs to look for at the VERY top of the op or a new thread? up to you. t.i.a.

1. usually/always too thick for most/all pcgs boxes
2. no visible cihp when light passes through the cert
3. coin never matches assigned grade
4. coin can be authentic OR counterfeit
5. etc

BillJones

The holder is also too thick to fit in a PCGS plastic slab box.

Interesting ... Of course you can't see that from a front or back photo.