Reconsidering, and looking forward to restoration. Results posted.

Goldminers

The quarterly reconsideration special is on, and I tried 5 coins (you only pay for 4) and struck out.

However, PCGS was kind enough to send me this sticker on one of my Indians, so I just sent this back in for restoration.

Honestly the coin did not look quite as bad in hand to me, or in the Heritage auctions description several years ago, but this straight on photo I took sure shows what the experts saw. Maybe a coin not rinsed properly once over 113 years?

Anyway, I agree this reverse photo looks really bad, but in 3 weeks or so, I will repost the new True View and grade to see if restoration helped.

Fingers crossed.

MFeld

The coin looks as if it has putty on it and that should be easy to remove. Then it becomes a matter of what the putty is hiding.

Broadstruck

Yeah, putty that's turning and they just use acetone to remove it.

PerryHall

Puttying was quite common on gold back then to hide hairlines and light scuffs and is easily removed by dipping but you'll lose the OGH slab. If it were my coin, I'd leave it alone. The putty may be hiding some hairlines that could drop the grade. What grade did your coin receive? Can we get a pic of the obverse?

Goldminers

I am not experienced at all with putty on coins. I did not want to crack it out myself, as it had a provenance holder label on the obverse, along with the grade and cert. which I did not want to show at this point.

It was described in the auction as: "... example displays a bold strike and vivid orange-gold luster that reveals few abrasions. Eye appeal is outstanding. Finer coins are rare and out of reach for most collectors."

Here is the auction photo of the coin reverse for reference:

Here is it now:

amwldcoin

@PerryHall said:
Puttying was quite common on gold back then to hide hairlines and light scuffs and is easily removed by dipping but you'll lose the OGH slab. If it were my coin, I'd leave it alone. The putty may be hiding some hairlines that could drop the grade. What grade did your coin receive? Can we get a pic of the obverse?

I would rather have a few hairlines than that yuckky putty that's only going to be more visible as time goes on.

Goldminers

I just really, really hope it does not downgrade.

It will be restored in a month or so, as I did it express service, and we will see what the result is then.

Goldminers

I was also curious, how many of you that have sent in coins recently for reconsideration have ever received this restoration recommendation sticker on the back on your slabs?

I really liked that PCGS let me know there was a problem with the coin, and that their restoration could possibly result in it potentially looking or maybe grading better. Maybe they use some additional procedure on gold coins in addition to straight acetone dip?

PerryHall

@amwldcoin said:

@PerryHall said:
Puttying was quite common on gold back then to hide hairlines and light scuffs and is easily removed by dipping but you'll lose the OGH slab. If it were my coin, I'd leave it alone. The putty may be hiding some hairlines that could drop the grade. What grade did your coin receive? Can we get a pic of the obverse?

I would rather have a few hairlines than that yuckky putty that's only going to be more visible as time goes on.

That putty has been on that coin for a long time and stable by now. Based on the Heritage description and the pic that was posted, this coin probably looks nice unless it's viewed under a bright light at a specific angle.

lilolme

@Goldminers said:
I just really, really hope it does not downgrade.

It will be restored in a month or so, as I did it express service, and we will see what the result is then.

From the pcgs restoration page (Do's and Don'ts)

Submitting a coin for PCGS Restoration in no way guarantees the upgrade of your coin. If the coin is already in a PCGS holder, it is guaranteed not to downgrade, nothing more. Through our restoration service, PCGS is committed to preserving and restoring coins to their original and natural condition.

https://www.pcgs.com/restoration

Goldminers

I did not know they would not downgrade. That is very nice. Thanks

coinkat

1909-s??

lilolme

I have not double checked this but I believe the restoration grade guarantee is the same as a pcgs slab regrade guarantee. That is pcgs guarantees the grade and essentially it will not down grade on a regrade. However, on rare occasions pcgs determines something went wrong and a down grade is needed but then the grade guarantee applies and financial compensation is applied. Again I didn't go and double check this but as I recall. It is probably on the submission form in all the fine print stuff. As coin collecting goes it would be considered 'rare' I believe.

Broadstruck

I'd hop on the horn with Heritage since it had already turned when they auctioned it and have them rectify this for you. Since this sounds like a key or semi key date based on their description, they should also make you financially whole if it downgrades once the putty is removed.

telephoto1

I didn't know that puttied coins would be graded. Perhaps someone missed it the first time...

Broadstruck

@telephoto1 said:
I didn't know that puttied coins would be graded. Perhaps someone missed it the first time...

The putty isn't seen at the time of grading until it begins to start turning months later continuing over years.

The PCGS Secure-View sniffer is supposed detect putty though if it was submitted for SV grading.

Goldminers

I may need to turn my computer off for a few weeks as I am getting a lot of new scary thoughts, real or imagined, as I read more of these experienced responses.

OriginalDan

@Goldminers said:
I really liked that PCGS let me know there was a problem with the coin, and that their restoration could possibly result in it potentially looking or maybe grading better. Maybe they use some additional procedure on gold coins in addition to straight acetone dip?

Well....I think it's optimistic to expect the coin will look better after removing the putty. Normally putty is applied to hide bad things. My best guess is they will remove the putty and one of two things will happen

1. The coin stays at grade, but is now a low-end coin for the grade
2. The coin downgrades and you get compensated

Outcome 2 is probably a better than 1. The coin is the coin, but at least you get compensated.

Connecticoin

@Broadstruck said:
I'd hop on the horn with Heritage since it had already turned when they auctioned it and have them rectify this for you. Since this sounds like a key or semi key date based on their description, they should also make you financially whole if it downgrades once the putty is removed.

PCGS would compensate the OP for the downgrade - the most Heritage might do is pay for the restoration submission, if they do anything.

MFeld

@Goldminers said:
I may need to turn my computer off for a few weeks as I am getting a lot of new scary thoughts, real or imagined, as I read more of these experienced responses.

While it might have been unpleasant to have read some of the comments, here, they can serve as a good education and help make you more aware. Also, keep in mind, that if the coin is conserved, you should be covered by the grade guarantee.

DisneyFan

@MFeld said:
The coin looks as if it has putty on it and that should be easy to remove. Then it becomes a matter of what the putty is hiding.

What exactly is "putty?" Do the different metals require a different type of putty?

DisneyFan

@PerryHall said:
Puttying was quite common on gold back

Is it no longer done?

Broadstruck

@DisneyFan said:

@PerryHall said:
Puttying was quite common on gold back

Is it no longer done?

Still being done as it's found on new current pronged stabbed gold as the OP's coin just the same on older holders including OGH and rattlers.

MFeld

@DisneyFan said:

@MFeld said:
The coin looks as if it has putty on it and that should be easy to remove. Then it becomes a matter of what the putty is hiding.

What exactly is "putty?" Do the different metals require a different type of putty?

See here: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Body-Repair-Putty/zgbs/automotive/3097823011

And here’s a good old post from @ColonelJessup: “Having given the PNG Coin Doctoring Definition Committee a list of various components of the broad range of materials, compounds and processes that are generically conflated under "putty" as surface obscurant, some will affect different metals by chemical bonding. You call it putty, I call it goop. Loosely translated, you will lose skin (natural and artificial), and there are sometimes unhappy bonding surprises or messed-up metal below. Not always. Some is moderately innocuous.”

PerryHall

@DisneyFan said:

@MFeld said:
The coin looks as if it has putty on it and that should be easy to remove. Then it becomes a matter of what the putty is hiding.

What exactly is "putty?" Do the different metals require a different type of putty?

I've never used putty but my understanding is that it's automotive body filler such as Bondo that is dissolved in a solvent that can be painted onto the surface of a coin and allowed to dry. I'm sure the coin doctors have tried every chemical or substance available to enhance to appearance of their coins to make them more valuable, attractive, and easier to sell.

WilliamF

Am I the only one that had to read the thread title twice to figure out what it meant...?

ricko

Too bad about the putty.... Let us know what happens. Especially with pictures. I hope the exposed surface is not more problematic. Hopefully just some very fine hairlines. Cheers, RickO

Goldminers

And here is the same coin after restoration. Was hoping it would + grade, but not this time. An improvement in appearance without the putty. IMO.

FlyingAl

I think this was a success. The coin is much more attractive now, even though it didn’t upgrade.

PerryHall

The acetone soak certainly improved the appearance of your coin.

PhilLynott

Huge success that is a beautiful coin! A horrible choice of coin to putty seeing as the hits they covered weren't even consequential to the overall grade. Nice job by PCGS recommending it.

RichieURich

The restoration was a big improvement! Congrats!

Goldminers

I will add to this discussion that the Heritage photos and descriptions of the coin near the top of the thread were from 2016 when I purchased it.

It did take several years for the "putty" to become more noticeable in the slab, as you can see from my photos earlier.

In hindsight, this "goop" probably should have been removed earlier. No idea when this was applied, but a different gold coin with the same provenance label that I bought a few years ago looks similar. I guess it pays to look at your coins once in a while.

gumby1234

Looks much better now even thou you can see marks that were covered up before.

DelawareDoons

That putty was rough, it's 1000% more sale-able now without it, and probably much nicer to look at too! Great coin.

BryceM

Wonderful result & beautiful coin. Too bad you had to put so much $$ in it to get it where it is now.

BTW, the putty is clearly visible in the auction photos. If you look for it, you will see it.

From the TrueView, it still looks exceptionally nice for the assigned grade.

AUandAG

Good going....nice coin. I noticed that the little x hit on the cheek disappeared once conserved. It must have just been in the putty.
bob

Elcontador

The puttying covered up some slightly uneven toning and a few contact marks which would have not have affected the coin's grade.

If you do a fair amount of business with a particular auction house, get to know someone there. I always get a detailed lot preview before bidding. Over 80% of the time, I'm told to pass, and why.

I'm glad the appearance of your coin was improved, and maybe you looked for years for one of these and this was the best you could find, so you went with it. That said, grading fees do add up. Sometimes you need to pay them, but sometimes if you're cautious, you can pay less of them.

Goldminers

This was my first restoration with coins in my registry sets. The original certificate number for this coin in my registry set stayed the entire time so far.

However, when I sent in coins for "regrade", they deleted the certificate numbers immediately on receipt, so my complete sets with those coins, do not show complete.

The new Gold Shield slab after restoration has the above new certificate number, so I had to add it and remove the old certificate number from my registry set inventory.

What is odd, is that the old certificate number 25351871 is still valid, in addition to my new certificate number, and the old certificate number shows my new True View, and the original label provenance was kept on both.