Your Worst Bourse Room Experience
Cougar1978
Posts: 8,436 ✭✭✭✭✭
We all know the bourse room (shows) can sometimes be like Animal Kingdom (Cody Family). Please share some of your bad experiences and how you learned from them.
Coins & Currency
0
Comments
Only went to one, got tired of being ignored by sellers. Online or In shop only now.
This story goes back quite awhile. Circa 1998 I was working on a US type set, 1793-current. I changed my preferences to mint state only coins, and I had bought one or two proofs, including a Mercury dime in PF64, worth about $200 at the time.
I traveled to Santa Clara, CA for a coin show and I found a dealer with many mint state Mercury dimes for sale (Larry Whitlow). He wasn't busy, and I examined five or six and picked one I liked (I think it was about $200 as well). I asked him if he would consider a trade of my proof mercury (which I had with me). This dealer became irate and told me I was treating him rudely and to never visit his table again, which I did not. I saw him for many years at Long Beach.
Early on when first setting up at shows there was this tall dark haired fellow in glasses who always had something negative to say to me when quoted a price. I don’t know who he was or even if he was a major player. On a slabbed hIgh end NGC 64 1930 SLQ quoted to him at Mkt retail “your competition over there has it for just $xx.” This was the largest dealership in my city. Later I looked at the coin and it was inferior to my piece. Another time on an ANACS 1917 T1 MS64 25c really nice wellstruck (circa 1995) he said “don’t you discount ANACS coins?” I probably would have but he made no counter offer.
Larry was a nice guy. Passed away a few years ago. I knew him well. He must have had a bad day. Too bad it happened to you.
Last coin show I went to, small show in Pittston PA. I had a couple thousand dollars to spend. NJ dealer who specializes in New Jersey coppers, I was bent over, looking closely at his coins when he just flopped his leather case right on top of the display, right under my nose and started slowly unpacking it. I went to Chris Young right next to him and spent my money there.
Are all dealers like this?
Many years ago, at one of the Baltimore Whitman shows I had a dealer do this to me while I was sitting in from of another dealer's glass case discussing one of his coins. The other dealer came up and threw his briefcase on the glass case right in front of me. I lost my temper at his outrageously rude behavior, and I grabbed his briefcase and tossed it into the isle. The dealer I was talking to snickered. The other dealer had a shocked look on his face, grabbed his briefcase and sauntered off.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
When I lived in Seattle, I attended most of the coin shows. There was one particular dealer that always had a large inventory in cases. Most coins I looked at were significantly over priced. Plus, he was just plain nasty. After the first two visits, I never stopped at his table again... Nor did other collectors I knew. It was interesting to see how he had virtually no one at his tables, while others were crowded with customers. Busy show and no business. I would sometimes walk by, look at him and chuckle. No need to say anything. Cheers, RickO
I was at a show last year and saw an item in a dealer’s showcase that interested me. I asked the price then I asked if I could see it. He rudely declined saying that I wasn’t going to buy it anyway and that I didn’t have the money. Little did he know I could had purchased it with the money I had. This year I didn’t even bother going to his table.
A vile dealer at a small show clearing his nostrils by shooting a booger on the floor while I was questing a price at his table.
Back in the 1980's I was building a set of 12 Caesars coins. I purchased a Nero piece from a dealer for what I considered to be a solid price. The next day I was again at the show and was viewing coins at a table when I heard the dealer I had purchased from yesterday talking to another dealer. He was boasting about how he had "buried" some guy in a Nero denarius.
I never glanced at that dealer's material again.
Nothing too bad other than the typical being ignored as you are standing right in front of the dealer waiting to communicate and it seems like your invisible. Or, being told that I don't have enough money for a certain coin/coins.
When I go to shows and have interest in a specific coin or coins, I have more than enough cash on hand to follow through with the deal.
I may not look the part of a big player as a buyer so I will move on to another table if this ever happens.
No. These are just the bad experiences that many had. A majority of dealers at shows are a lot better and nicer than the ones being described here.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I went to a small local show a few months ago, a dealer had a stock book of capped bust and seated liberty halves i really wanted to look at, with what looked like really good prices from what I could glimpse, but an old guy was looking at it, sitting in a chair in front of the dealers table, for two hours before I gave up waiting and wandering around the room. I went to the show the next month but said dealer was nowhere to be seen. I'll probably never see that selection again.
I had the same experience many years ago when I was a young collector. I asked to see a coin in a dealer's case and the jackass told me that I couldn't afford it which was definitely not true. I saw the same dealer at many future coin shows but never bothered looking at what he had in his display case.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You should walk past him at the next show you see him at and flash a wad of hundreds fat enough to choke a horse!
I doubt that he would even remember me but I made it a point to remember him.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I’ve attended hundreds of shows and had thousands of interactions over nearly 50 years. I can only think of three bad experiences.
@ricko said:
** When I lived in Seattle, I attended most of the coin shows. There was one particular dealer that always had a large inventory in cases. Most coins I looked at were significantly over priced. Plus, he was just plain nasty. **
I wonder if it was this same clown….a dealer from the Seattle area that I’d seen at the Michigan State show several times, and again at Baltimore about 25 years ago. He had a nice ‘19P Walker in a 55 or 58 holder I was examining and genuinely interested in. The sticker on the back made me gulp a bit, but I politely asked for a best price, thinking I’d be willing to stretch if he could discount it a bit. He said loudly in front of other people “just give it back to me, it’s not a coin for you!”.
I’ve been to a few local shows and the Baltimore show and I never had a bad experience. The Baltimore show I spoke to the dealers beforehand and walked up to each and purchased the notes/coins I had discussed.
There is one dealer that I love to see what’s for sale but I rarely buy from them as it’s looks more like they are there to get material for their website. I don’t think I’m the right client though, since the items are priced above what I consider a fair price.
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
It seems that even the unsavory characters are on good behavior at the ANA and other major shows. What I see as problem behavior though are buyers or sellers trying to take advantage. In the leading free market economy coin shows are often a raw expression of that.
I’ve never been to a coin show but am looking forward to interacting with folks. I can usually get someone to sneer at me at a flea market so I assume I would continue my streak and offend at least one seller 😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
A prominent southern dealer was selling a Dahlonega half eagle. I politely asked if I could see the coin and what was the price. I looked at it for a few minutes, didn’t like the coin, gave it back to him, and thanked him. He then said “what’s the matter my coin isn’t good enough for you”. I walked away without responding.
Just a comment about buyers….i always give the same attention and kindness to anyone who wants to look at my inventory no matter what their appearance is…i have a few regulars now that have very deep pockets, and are willing buyers
My biggest issue at shows is the vest pocket dealers I think that take up the whole table with cases buying and selling during the shows. I thought these deals were done before the shows.
I usually spend in the mid 5 figures at shows and often feel like I am invisible or the dealers do not have time for me. It seems to be a old boys club at many tables for sure. I also have been told I cannot afford that coin. Although I have looked and held some truly expensive coins at a few dealers that I could not afford and they were more than happy to let me do it. Most dealers are very friendly and helpful with out being judgmental.
For the ANA I have already purchased a few coins on line and will pick them up at the show. along with lot viewing which is very enjoyable. 90% of my purchases are on line now.
Your a wise man. My father used to tell me, “Son, never judge a book by it’s cover”.
OK . . . .let me get back to the OP question and away from the above myriad of 'dealer-mistreatment' posts . . .
My very first foray into the world of 'selling' coins (sorry RickO). I had 'made' two Classic cents (years ago) in VF20 and VF25 holders . . . bought raw and at a nice preferential price that allowed me to take advantage of Classic cent pricing that just rockets above VG. As a young (?) cub who was selling for the first time . . . I offered them to a dealer who travels to my area (avoiding any other identity as you would know who it is) . I made him an easy buy as I was into them (at the time) about $200 each and he was offering multiples of that (yup, PCGS holders). Knowing him . . . and he also knowing me and my rep, I handed over the coins and he said we'd "settle up" later.
So . . . . I was pretty pumped. My first dip into the 'selling pool' and I was going to REALLY make some money. Fun . . . I could put it back into fun coins.
End of the day . . . .I drifted back around to his (4) tables to 'settle up'. His comment, "What? We already did that deal! I paid you!" Ummmmmm . . . . . since it was my inaugural 'selling' event, and I was about to pocket more money than I had ever seen in the coin world, I can clearly recall we had NOT consummated the deal. I stammered . . . sort of threw up in my mouth, and thought to myself that I was going to exit this hobby and take up cornhole, or chess. Then he said, "Didn't we?" I looked him in the eye and solemnly said, "Nope, you told me to come back later." He was a bit peeved at the time, but he peeled off the C-notes and paid me. We actually are still friends to this day and work well together.
I have flown nuclear weapons and spoken in front of audiences of 8-15 thousand . . . yet I never knew true fear or humiliation until that brief moment.
It all worked out OK . . . . . . .
Drunner
(Glad this is down far enough in the thread that no one will read it)
My next 6 worst bourse experiences are different trips to the bathroom at the Long Beach show.
Those locations need some exhaust fans . . . .
Drunner
I read it.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
ANA LM
LSCC
EAC
FUN
i think the worst experiences i have had were the shows i wasn't able to find a solution to buy or sell anything. rudeness aside, i can usually eat that as i don't like stupid crap to stop me from getting what i want unless someone continues to be that way. i take not being able to buy or sell something considering all the coins across the bourse as a personal failure because my goal at least, is to always do one or the other, preferably both. i buy very diversely across type, condition, price, variety, error, toner etc.
i think the absolute worst is when i find something really good (to me) and i don't have the funds and all efforts to find a solution for partial payment, layaway, trade, bargaining etc doesn't work. there are many but one that still stings just a bit was a 1806/5 25c very nice and lightly crusty and probably a straight-grade and despite my best efforts was just a couple hundred bucks short. i'm sure there was a solution but i wasn't able to find it. i had one earlier a couple/few months before that had some face gouges but still a nice fine or so otherwise and getting the undamaged one would have been cathartic to me.
i will say and kinda like others have posted in this thread and others like it is the presumption that just because someone can't afford something at a particular show/shop, doesn't mean they can't in general. dealers should know better than anyone, usually a good reason for not having money for certain items is BECAUSE of numismatic purchases. oh the irony.
At a show a few years ago, I asked a dealer to see a coin in his case. He said that I could not afford it. I could have bought every coin in his case. I have never stopped at his table since then.
" it’s not a coin for you!”.
I've heard that before. And exactly what does that mean?
When I was about 16 I went to a stamp show with two friends of mine.
I was sitting there looking at stamps when there was a tap on my shoulder from behind.
I turned around and a security guard said "get up !".
He marched the three of us all the way through the bourse area to the front of the show.
Then he demanded that we turn out our pockets, while everyone was watching.
Apparently, someone had accused us of "shoplifting".
Of course, we hadn't taken anything.
Shortly after that the guard and the false-reporter apologized.
I gave them a dirty look and proceeded back into the bourse to resume what I was doing.
My worst experience is not having enough time to enjoy a hot dog
That's terrible. I hope you and your friends were ok after that experience.
I had an experience at a restaurant where a friend and I were stopped walking down the street a block away. They said we left without paying. We followed the employee back to the restaurant where they found out that they threw out our payment in the garbage.
I’m thinking it was his ridiculous way of implying that it was too nice/too expensive for someone of my ilk….not realizing that I already had most of the set in AU/MS.
One of my first coin shows in Westchester, I was at a table showing a dealer a $20 Lib. I had for his opinion. A guy nearby in suit and tie whips out a raw mark free 1903 $20 saying his was much nicer and would I like to buy it, the dealer was not interested? I was not aware of dealer etiquette and the dealer whose table we were at said go ahead if you want to buy it. It turned out to be counterfeit.
Whether buyer or seller, interrupting people in the middle of a transaction/discussion to inject an offer of your own is not cool.
@Walkerguy21D... I do not know if it was the same one, but it sure sounds like him. Cheers, RickO
Reminds me of the time I went to a Maserati dealership in an old car and the salesman on the lot told me his cars were too expensive and not for me.
Man, there's just no excuse for that kind of stupid behavior.
Pete
Santa Clara Coin Show in 1990s I asked to see a Bicentennial half dollar clip and was marked $5.00 it was about 10% clip and BU. Passed as i did not think authentic no blakesley effect (weakness opposite the side of clip). Just handed it back to dealer nothing said ,and the dealer Harlen White of San Diego just throws it back in case.
LOL! The end of last year I traded a 15 year old Kia against a Maserati!
How to tell if clip is authentic.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/how-to-identify-a-genuine-clip-coin--collectors--clearinghouse.html
The worse experiences I’ve had were the couple of times I asked to look at a coin, and the dealer told me he (in one case she) won’t get it out of his case because, “You can’t afford it.” I’ve gotten this line three times over the years, first when I was in my twenties and last when I was in my early 60s. Calling these dealers stupid and impolite would be an accurate statement.
Drove from San Diego to Las Vegas for a show many years ago. It was combined with an auto show (and maybe a gun show too). Arrived about 10am on a Sunday (Sat/Sun show). There was only one dealer set up and he was going to leave. Sold him a couple 1894 PCGS Morgans (for fair but not great prices) and left.
I was told the exact same thing by a dealer at the 2022 Summer FUN show. Funny enough, one of my friends bought the exact same coin from him and payed well under what I was willing to buy it for. Several other YN's I've spoken to have had the same/similar experience.
I bumped into Steve Feltner at the airport the other day and we talked about a similar experience he had when he was my age. I just can't comprehend what goes through dealers minds while telling their customers these kinds of things. Though it sounds like that attitude has been around for a while...
My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics
Okay....stand BACK !!
There's a well known dealer who has an extensive inventory and I always check out his stuff.
USUALLY....ending up purchasing.
BUT.... he has 7 or 8 cases spread out on his table. Starting with stale stuff and pretty mundane items.
Then it progresses to the GOOD stuff and there he perches his chair.
Now that's fine and dandy. But...when a roadie or an out of town guy shows up with his satchel of stuff to either add to or sell, said dealer ALLOWS Mr. Outtatown to slap the satchel on the case of the goodies and plop down for a lengthy conversation.
Which means his GOOD stuff is covered up with greysheets, binders, clipboards and sundry other things.
Now, he COULD have one of his "assistants" sit behind the slow stuff....or... call them over to show GOOD stuff as it is asked for. He has several "assistants" who roost behind the stale stuff.
Now, were it me....I would perch MYSELF at a ...close-to-good-stuff case and have the satchel swingers set down there for the conversation ...or deals.
It would be SO easy to let an "assistant" ...show... potential buyers whatever they wanted to see (from the higher end case) and THEN he could enter the negotiations.
It has gotten to the point now that I don't even go to his tables if there are a bevy of dealers wanting to talk, deal, wheedle, and comment.
He may make more sales to the website guys than he would with me.
BUT.... I now find myself cruising right by and not bothering with the aggravation.
...............Rant over.
skier07-Reminds me of the time I went to a Maserati dealership in an old car and the salesman on the lot told me his cars were too expensive and not for me.
Years ago, my Pap went to a Mercedes dealer to purchase a vehicle, had his bib overalls on, no one would talk to him. He left, went to the BMW dealer and a salesperson met him right after entering the dealership. He bought a new BMW that day. The Mercedes dealership found out and called him to apologize all over themselves.
I attended an ANA National Money Show a few years ago. Picked up a Gold Eagle in Proof that I had purchased from a dealer prior to the show. Wanted to get a "second" opinion on the coin from another dealer. The dealer looked at the obverse for maybe two seconds, muttered hairlines and tossed it onto the table. Didn't chip the slab fortunately. The coin completed a Proof Set. Needless to say, that company was not involved in building any of my other sets after the experience.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
ANA LM
LSCC
EAC
FUN
I didn't get into more expensive coins until later but early on I ran into situations when wanting to audition high end audiophile equipment. If I ran into this, I would engage the seller in some conversation to convince them I knew what I was talking about and then got to do my auditions, after they warmed up the equipment for half an hour before listening.
I bought a fractional bitcoin token with the bitcoin chip inside the coin. The seller told me the bitcoin was still active. I paid $180.00 and got a plastic chip with no Bitcoin (it had been spent). It was to be a gift for my tech savvy son. He still liked the coin regardless, so not all bad.
Maybe that is an omen to stay away from Bitcoin.