Precious metal premiums
Spooly
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https://youtu.be/iQc0Tfa0olYSi vis pacem, para bellum
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
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Price goes up,
Price comes down,
And sometimes prices hang around...
But we will stack through thick and thin..
Money out and PM's in....
Cheers, RickO
Good way to go broke
premiums over spot price (for paper promises) are simply a surcharge for the real stuff.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
It's a disappearing act ,your money, is gone. Poof! Now and later because if silver rises to say $50 it'll pry some loose and the premium won't matter, although it really does. Why? Because you're going to get spot and not spot plus like you're paying now.
Old economics adage; if you want to find something raise the price of it.
Problem today? Greedy speculation on the commodity, profit on the high end of price incorporated the premium when you're cashing out. "It just won't matter" yeah, well, yeah well it does. Premiums= fancy marketing trick.
IMHO based on an intelligence trap.
Problem today? Those who hold the physical metal know its value is much greater than what the traders of paper promises say it is.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Problem today? Greedy speculation on the commodity, profit on the high end of price incorporated the premium when you're cashing out. "It just won't matter" yeah, well, yeah well it does.
The real market is when actual silver is exchanged for cash, whether premiums are involved or not. Greedy speculation? Which side is being "greedy", the seller or the buyer?
I knew it would happen.
Exactly. And there are thousands of transactions everyday in coin and pawn shops all across this great land. That real market is often much different than some on here demand you believe.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I am patiently waiting for the day when gold and silver are set free from their price cage. It's coming...
premiums are telling you that day is here for silver.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Pawn shops paying $3 behind spot. I'm referring to the premium at honest coin shops. The owners i speak with say if it hits $50 the premium won't matter. I say " oh how convenient the premium magically disappears when spot is high $50 ie"
Why? Because the 'silver get me out' exit door gets jammed up. On such a big scale millions of ounces are difficult to HEDGE
Believe me the best of them will be paying $3. In back of melt at a $50 Spot SPOT PRICE
THE EXIT DOOR WILL JAM SHUT QUICKLY. buy on the way down sell on the way up.
Premium for physical silver over paper spot price is proportional to collector value for the form with respect to craftsmanship, beauty, rarity, historical interest, sometimes utility of function, often liquidity, and often "neatness" as a conversation piece or "tchotchky" for display.
Compare prestine ASEs to impaired ones, as well as to bent sterling forks and picture frames.
Or on the other hand, proof ASEs, or something like draped bust coins in practically any condition, and especially for nice ones. "Premium" exceeds the metal value,sometimes by thousands of percents
Exactly the same concept, just a matter of degree. I'll take one rare qnd desirable oin over a closet full of silver eagle's any day.
The world 🌎 Very seldom ends, despite consistent rumors to the contrary. And the world is awash in silver bullion
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Believe me the best of them will be paying $3. In back of melt at a $50 Spot SPOT PRICE
THE EXIT DOOR WILL JAM SHUT QUICKLY. buy on the way down sell on the way up.
It sounds like you think that the silver market will top out at $50, but I wouldn't bet on it. I've heard believable arguments for runaway inflation and believable arguments for a deflationary depression.
The burgeoning debt load is a major problem, and in my mind the main issue is which direction the metals will go in response to the Fed's and Congress's actions when the debt can't be contained by printing.
The only certainty with precious metals is that they are accountable and real.
I knew it would happen.
LOL, let's try to get to (and hold) $20 gutter before we start up the $50 gutter fantasies.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
@Baley said: “Premium for physical silver over paper spot price is proportional to collector value for the form with respect to craftsmanship, beauty, rarity, historical interest, sometimes utility of function, often liquidity, and often "neatness" as a conversation piece or "tchotchky" for display.
Compare prestine ASEs to impaired ones, as well as to bent sterling forks and picture frames.”
Yes. Exactly.
Coming at it from a slightly different angle: try buying gas for spot at your local gas station. The more generic and the larger the volumes, the closer to spot. Even for silver!
Premiums should stay sky high for a long time if the paper price keeps declining for no reason! Lol
But there is a reason...the dollar is strong.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
the dollar index (measured against much weaker currencies) is strong. A strong dollar would buy more at home, not less. Do not be fooled, the dollar is not strong for the people forced to use it. Pretty soon retailers are going to need bigger cash registers.
Forty year high inflation is not the result of a strong dollar.
High premiums are a reflection of loss of confidence (fear) in both the dollar controllers and the paper PM price controllers. Look for higher PM premiums to surface across the board. Today's "cheap" silver products will not remain cheap. The fear will spread to gold premiums.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The importance of this confidence was specifically addressed at the recent Jackson Hole pow wow by a member of of the Executive Board of the ECB:
"In this environment, central banks need to act forcefully. They need to lean with determination against the risk of people starting to doubt the long-term stability of our fiat currencies. Regaining and preserving trust requires us to bring inflation back to target quickly. The longer inflation stays high, the greater the risk that the public will lose confidence in our determination and ability to preserve purchasing power."
Well, at least they realize its really about optics and sheep herd confidence.
Another recurring theme/warning from the pow wow was that "disruptive supply chain issues will continue." Central banks can do nothing to resolve/eliminate supply chain issues. While they can throttle demand with interest rates they cannot create fertilizer, fuel, food or any other consumable. In fact their creation of higher costs will only reduce the production and movement of physical supplies.
The Fed Can't Stop Supply-Side Inflation
"The Fed and other central banks have zero control of supply-driven inflation, period. Trying to crush inflation by crushing demand won't fix inflation because the source is supply, not demand."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Indeed. And it is. I'm able to buy more ounces of gold and silver with dollars, right here, in the good old USA.
I ain't fooled.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You continue to say this but I've been able to buy more ounces of gold and silver with the same dollars. Has the lack of confidence been in the dollar or in PMs?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You're obviously buying the cheapest (per ounce) PM products you can find. Those who want quality are paying high prices. Demand for PMs says there is no lack of confidence in real PMs in the face of spot price setters trying to convince them there is.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Yup. I have choice of paying 23 or 33 for a shiney round 1 oz of silver. My way gets me almost 50% more ounces. No brainer.
999 is the same quality as .999. Only difference is perception. And I ain't gonna pay for someone's perception. That's like paying for someone's opinion.
BTW. That perception was 40 a year and half ago. Today is 33 or less. Easy to see where the lack of confidence has been.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Will you accept the price based on perception when you sell or will you join the chorus about "gutter metal?'
FWIW all silver premiums will rise as demand increases and available supply decreases. Perceived quality is but the first to react. Those buying low premium silver will rejoice just as earlier buyers/current sellers of low premium ASEs and RCM bars are now doing
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
What happens to ASE premium when the mint starts minting?
https://coinweek.com/us-mint-news/congressman-demands-answers-from-us-mint-about-silver-eagle-program/
Isnt this the same as the inflation stuff you present--that the Fed can impact demand but not supply? ASEs are up (inflation is up) because reduced supply, not increased demand.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Are you buying low premium silver now?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
APMEX 5 oz (low premium) silver bar can be had for around $110 with free s&h...
https://www.walmart.com/ip/5-oz-Silver-Bar-APMEX/344710460?athbdg=L1100
US Mint cannot presses cannot strike ASEs unless there are blanks in the press. Do you see a sudden supply in raw silver. Not only are ASEs premiums gonna stick for quite a while, other silver products will follow suit.
The mint is supposed to strike American Eagles to meet demand. Are they meeting this demand?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
what do you think? LOL
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
You keep touting the virtues of high premium so......no.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Wowza you guys still at it? Lol…
Bottom line fake premiums, just like the old days of buying mutual funds with the juice they take your money going in and coming out, for the sellers only, people should wise up, cash has always been king and anyone who wants cash for metal gotta discount the metal, not pay a fabricated premium story … amazing stuff happening to bad y’all still here… hope you all make gazillions…
Welcome back rawteam.
Yeah, we ain't never gettin' divorced.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Currently if you buy Silver Eagles you pay a fairly high premium, especially if you buy from a dealer.
But you also get back some of the premium when you sell to a reputable dealer.
It isn't the "premium" that you have to overcome to make a profit.
What you have to overcome, to make a profit, is the "spread".
The "spread" is the difference between what you can buy a specific item for, and what you can sell that same item for.
The dealers' "spread" is just as important as the "premium".
We've been trying to explain that to the premium pushers for years now, but they dont listen.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The spread is simply your profit margin, if you decide to sell. Profit margin is greatly affected by the premium one pays. Spread determines if he recoups his premium.
Looks like we're right back to my favorite motto "buy low, sell high." I don't believe you have to explain this to most readers. Maybe you need it explained to you.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Looks like we're right back to my favorite motto "buy low, sell high." I don't believe you have to explain this to most readers."
Once again, I'm in agreement with derryb (world must be coming to an end
Along with buy low & sell high.....A little bid of luck with your timing when selling or buying, helps.
I've been pointing out to the "premium deniers" that if you buy a popular product and pay a premium when you buy it, that is ok because you can get most or all of that premium back when you sell.
Recent technological manufacturing artistry certainly adds Premium to pure bullion as well as junk US legal tender wornout silver slugs.
Even better is true age, beauty, history, and craftsmanship. As well as authentic duty in the early commerce of a young country
Not everyone shares these tastes though, the masses prefer fast, new, computer assisted, and in perfect condition.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Only if the demand is still there. Demand for "moderns" or "specialty products" normally is short lived. I'm sure that there are exceptions, but as a whole, popularity for those product diminishes over time. Timing in buy & sell with your transaction(s) determines profitability.
Given today's political and economic environment, I can't understand why gold isn't 4k an ounce!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Ok ok one more on “premiums / spread”… I’ll leave you with this great wisdom… some may or may not remember when gold made its first big major league move up and thru 1200… great times, however a phenomenon occurred that will be the precedent for the future - ms64 and below saints were available for melt retail under melt wholesale especially ms63 and unders you couldn’t give them away… eventually ms65 Morgan’s will be melt and the saints again and all fancy made up modern bullion up to 70’s… he who has ears, let them hear… hope y’all are doing great…
Those were the days. Even as recent as 2018 it was easy to find slabbed saints, $10 indians and libs on the retail market at melt. No doubt at some point we will see those days again. Looking forward to it. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Several years ago a local dealer sent off a million dollars worth of double eagles to be melted. His timing was not too good because right after that the premiums started going up.
I disagree that true MS65 Morgan Dollars will ever be available at just the "melt" value.
I doubt that any pre-1921 Morgan Dollar that is VF grade or better will ever have zero premium.
I agree
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Very true!
I paid $900 for this, October, 2018:
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I knew it was a great buyer’s market back then, 2015-20...
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Ver Very Noice!
PS: If the reverse is as nice as that obverse that's an upgrade candidate for sure. MS65 all day long RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Thanks! I knew it was a deal even then!
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The most important question when it come to high premiums is "Why?"
They are saying something very important to those who listen.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Are they saying the same thing as they did 18 months ago?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear