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GTG: $20 Saint (Grade Posted!)
DelawareDoons
Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
GTG: $20 Saint (Grade Posted!)
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and say that's striking weakness and not wear.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
AU58 if that is wear across her front side and MS64 if not. I just picked up my second 1928.
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Looks like a bit of wear. Nice coin thou.
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I would say au58
Looks like a 64.... Was going to say 63, but figured the magnification was making it look worse than it would in hand. Cheers, RickO
It looks MS--better than a 63 but not quite as good as a 65.
Young Numismatist. Over 20 successful transactions including happy BST transactions with @CoinHoarder, @Namvet69, @Bruce7789, @TeacherCollector, @JWP, @CuKevin, @CoinsExplorer, @greencopper, @PapiNE and @privatecoin
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63 for me, but nice!
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It’s a nice Saint but would not offer more than AU money (my usual offer 10 pct behind CDN Bid) for it if buying raw. Has some wear, slight contact marks primary focal areas. Even if somehow went MS can’t c it above 62. It’s just not all there. Dark areas on high points, average luster not flashy at all. It’s definitely had some contact.
It looks very much like a PCGs 58 Saint bought from bourse chairman (known for decades) few mo back at show setup - at CDN bid which I later sold to an investor at same show bid plus 10 pct. Bingo paid my show expenses.
OP Coin: Not something I would call a MS Coin nor pay MS money for. I guess pass.
I am with FlyingAl ☺️
The pictures make it look like wear, but save for a few contact marks, the fields are really clean, so MS64.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
64
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Very quiet fields. Hairlines and chatter are what kill the grade for graders. A few marks in grade sensitive areas but the images are blown up so in hand the luster may make them more inconspicuous.
I think it's rub and not a strike issue.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
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I don't think it could be higher than 63, but maybe as low as 58.
Young Numismatist
On the other hand, I don' think it could be lower than 63.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
64
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
NGC 63
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I think it should be a AU55 but my guess given how Saint's are graded is 62-63.
At the risk of having placed both feet in my mouth, in the event that the coin grades a lot lower than my guess…
For those who grade/graded it AU - granted, the obverse device, in particular, displays what some would classify as rub/wear. However, that characteristic is present in varying degrees on most Saints. And one (hopefully) major clue to its condition is the appearance of the fields. They don’t exhibit the typical marks and flaws of a circulated coin. But rather, they look like most choice Unc. (or better) examples.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm still working on my grading. I don't see too many gold coins, so I just looked at a few pics on CoinFacts to compare. :-)
GTGs really help.
Young Numismatist
Agree with this. Graders look for wear in the fields to determine if a Saint has circulated. The rub on the high points is from the coins sliding around in the bags and from being counted and handled at the mint and is typical for Mint State Saints.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Years ago a large dealer in state sold me a $20 Saint and said "don't send it in for grading" as it had a light "scratch". It wasn't that conspicuous and the coin graded MS65.
First thought was MS62 because of all the little detracting marks/dings on the obverse rim and the rays on both obverse and reverse but I think they're probably small enough that they wouldn't count against the grade, I"m gonna go 63.
Unless that picture was taken before it was slabbed, it looks to me like it's in an ANACS slab, I don't see many Saints in those slabs, interesting...
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Agreed! Here is my Saint graded MS65. It shows an almost identical pattern.
Will post the grade tonight after I grab some slab shots.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Ms-62
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Some Gold is just harder to grade than others
Hasn't been to CAC for whatever it's worth.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Just for posterity, folks that were +/- 1 point. I think it would regrade 4 today.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Nice!
Pinging you since you gave @MFeld a LOL reaction for taking the time to explain how gold is graded especially in regards to tolerances for high point friction on classic gold, and where you actually look for signs of wear on the same.
Kinda classless imho. So here's your woefully incorrect breakdown quoted for future reference.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Dang, just saw this and missed the chance to vote before the MS63 reveal That said, 75% chance that coin would grade MS64 today.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Honestly she is a 65 pretty 😍 with a very slight rubs on her left knee as well as her toes
Send that baby to CAC!
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
Based on some recent pcgs submissions and various GTGs, I am a terrible grader. I voted 61.
Nothing against the coin but I see a flat nose, rub on breast and thigh, what looks to me like an average strike at best, and some contact marks but pretty clean fields. Reading the comments above, this seems like pretty typical MS bag marks. So how does this get to a 63 with a consensus agreeing it would upgrade/CAC? Am I misinterpreting/overweighting the contact marks? Are 28s known for weak strikes? Something else?
Thank you for any insight, trying to get better!
I always enjoy reading your grading analyses, particularly the certainty with which you proclaim yourself right and people like @MFeld as definitively wrong.
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All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
I guessed 64 but if I knew it was in an early generation NGC slab, I would have guessed a point lower since they were ultra conservative back then. In any event, it's a very nice coin in a neat older generation slab and the last date in the series that is affordable for the average collector.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Nice coin either way
Looks like MS-64.
I almost voted MS-63 as between 63 (old grading on early slabs) instead of MS-64 newer slabs.
A large photo always makes the coin look worse.
I think you were fair in describing the coin as you did.
Probably the most difficult aspect of grading Saints is the typical “rub”, “stacking friction” or flat spots which are seen on the breast and knee in the very large majority of instances. And the design is one that doesn’t seem to offer many examples that would be described as fully or sharply struck. Bottom line, while others might disagree, I think it’s fair to say that the series is graded to a different standard from most others. The one somewhat similar series I can think of is Standing Liberty Quarters. Many examples - even choice uncirculated ones - have a somewhat flat knee, that appears to have “rub” on it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don't have a ton of experience with gold, but my general strategy with it is to grade it like silver and add a point, unless I'm going 58. If I'm going 58, I bump it to 62. At this point I am starting to break away from that thinking, but as a basic strategy, it is solid.
It's a softer metal than silver by a good bit so tolerances are a bit looser in terms of grading.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Thanks @MFeld and @DelawareDoons !
I wouldn't be surprised if at cac it gets a gold sticker.
I don't think the luster (or copper spots) are there for a gold bean. Sure gonna try though.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Looks like a Euro 63 to me. If the luster is better than the photos show, possibly a 64…
Coins don't circulate and only show wear on the high points! The luster wears faster.
Sure is a nice 63.
It won't get a gold bean, but it should go to cac, agreed, if it was mine I would leave it in the holder as is, jmho.
If you don’t think it will get a gold sticker - and I don’t either, even though it looks like a 64 to me - why send it to CAC? What’s the upside?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Bragging rights, nothing else. 😏