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PCGS and Fred Weinberg certify unique 2000-D Sacagawea South Carolina Quarter Mule!

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 24, 2022 6:13PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Wow! A unique South Carolina Sacagawea Mule has been certified by PCGS and authenticated by Fred! What an incredible coin and discovery!

Great to see Fred authenticating again!

@FredWeinberg Does this mean you can't stay away from coins and have come out of retirement? :)

Here's the info:

Paul Gilkes wrote on June 10, 2022
Twenty-two years after its production at the Denver Mint, the only known example of a double-denomination mule error coin featuring a Sacagawea dollar obverse and the reverse of a South Carolina State quarter dollar has been authenticated and certified as genuine by Professional Coin Grading Service.

PCGS graded the mule coin as Mint State 64.
[...]
The grading service shipped the coin to error coin specialist Fred Weinberg for his professional opinion.

Weinberg confirmed to Coin World June 8 that the coin was struck on a dollar coin planchet weighing 8.1 grams, the standard for the dollar coins, and measuring 26.5 millimeters, with a plain edge.
[...]
Weinberg said he saw no evidence that would suggest the mule error was made from two separate coins united into one.

Weinberg said that, since the diameter of the quarter dollar die is smaller than that of the dollar planchet, the strike resulting from the quarter dollar die would exhibit the appearance of a double rim.



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Comments

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WOWSERS

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2022 10:15PM

    Interesting that they are just reporting this now. This was discussed here back in February.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1071607/2000-d-sacagawea-dollar-muled-with-south-carolina-quarter-reverse#latest

    Edit: What a phenomenal modern coin, regardless of origins.

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a beautiful coin 🥰

  • lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    You get my vote.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Way cool 😎

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2022 3:42AM

    @GoldenEgg said:
    Interesting that they are just reporting this now. This was discussed here back in February.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1071607/2000-d-sacagawea-dollar-muled-with-south-carolina-quarter-reverse#latest

    Edit: What a phenomenal modern coin, regardless of origins.

    Due to the pandemic, the mail was slow... :)

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What an interesting find.... We never seem to get the backstory on items like this. Was it found in change? A mint bag of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Cheers, RickO

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great to have you back writing again @zoins. I learn a lot from your posts. Thanks.

  • sumduncesumdunce Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭✭

    Not familiar enough with how the machinery works, could the employee produce one, or would they have to run a small batch? Could there potentially be a few more in mint-sewn bags?

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fred’s a legend. Nice to know he is still available when PCGS comes up with a discovery coin or special situation.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pcgscacgold said:
    Great to have you back writing again @zoins. I learn a lot from your posts. Thanks.

    Thanks! It's good to be back!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just updated the photos in the OP so go take a look again if you wish :)

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    I just updated the photos in the OP so go take a look again if you wish :)

    That is a really neat coin and I don't even collect that series.

  • justmenutty72justmenutty72 Posts: 394 ✭✭✭

    I love the coin, but how in the world is it legal to own? It had to be deliberately produced by a shady mint employee. It is an error that was intentionally produced with the knowledge that it would demand a high premium for ownership. As seen solely in this thread, it’s generating a lot of interest and will certainly generate a huge profit. Am I missing something here??? Someone please explain.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    100% agree, should be destroyed.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    100% agree, should be destroyed.

    Along with the 1913 Liberty nickels?

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Midnight minters struck again! Pun intended.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    I bet it might has more than one coin, this might not be just one person's job so they need to create more to share the profit.

  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful B)

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • justmenutty72justmenutty72 Posts: 394 ✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    I bet it might has more than one coin, this might not be just one person's job so they need to create more to share the profit.

    Don’t get me wrong, it is a beautiful coin. But this hound dog smells a green paper trail?

  • Dr_BonesDr_Bones Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    There are a number of the coins that we designate as Patterns that were minted specifically for collectors and perhaps for other spurious reasons. In the 1800s many were made retroactively to make copper sets, etc. This happened a lot during the 1870s under Director Linderman. In fact, right after his original sale by Lyman Low in 1885 , many lots were seized by the US government and were resold later by Scott as they were not authorized or recognized.
    This coin has been certified as an error and we have no background on if it was intentional or not. I have a coin that for 20 years was felt to be a pattern piece that subsequently was determined to be an error also minted on an incorrect planchet. So in this case all we can do is speculate and very well many never know whether it was intentional or not.

    Visit USPatterns.com

  • justmenutty72justmenutty72 Posts: 394 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @coinbuf said:

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    100% agree, should be destroyed.

    Along with the 1913 Liberty nickels?

    As with this coin, I’m sure there’s a statute of limitations that applies.

  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just did a little more reading on this and there are more than 20 Sacagewea/washington mules, this is one of the finest known examples, although perhaps not as unique as originally thought

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not just the 1913 Liberty Head Nickels

    Also the 2 Pan Pac Halves struck on cut down $20 St.G.😉

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking coin.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2022 1:12PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @coinbuf said:

    @relicsncoins said:
    Mint employee shenanigans.

    100% agree, should be destroyed.

    Along with the 1913 Liberty nickels?

    Why not destroy all rare coins just in case a Mint employee made them on purpose? ;)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2022 5:55PM

    @GoldenEgg said:
    Interesting that they are just reporting this now. This was discussed here back in February.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1071607/2000-d-sacagawea-dollar-muled-with-south-carolina-quarter-reverse#latest

    Yes, very interesting timing! Seems like PCGS knew about the coin back in February when it added the CoinFacts entry but it seems like the coin was first confirmed on June 8 when Fred had the call with CoinWorld (with Paul?) which is the same date that Andy mentioned a photo became available on CoinFacts in that thread.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    Why not destroy all rare coins just in case a Mint employee made them on purpose? ;)

    .
    didn't mint employees make ALL rare coins on purpose. ;)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @IkesT said:
    Why not destroy all rare coins just in case a Mint employee made them on purpose? ;)

    .
    didn't mint employees make ALL rare coins on purpose. ;)

    Yes, and those that were made with the permission of congress and the mint supervisor are perfectly fine. But the side hustle coins that were not authorized by congress not so much.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool coin- anyone know if it’s going into an auction or up for sale?

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you buy this coin in auction can the government confiscate it?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2022 9:27PM

    @jt88 said:
    If you buy this coin in auction can the government confiscate it?

    I doubt it as a number of other Sacajawea quarter mules have sold at auction.

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool coin, like all midnight mined coins they are interesting. I wish they made a couple hundred though!

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @jt88 said:
    If you buy this coin in auction can the government confiscate it?

    I doubt it as a number of other Sacajawea quarter mules have sold at auction.

    If it is safe to buy, I would consider bid on it if it show up in auction.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2022 8:35AM

    @jt88 said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jt88 said:
    If you buy this coin in auction can the government confiscate it?

    I doubt it as a number of other Sacajawea quarter mules have sold at auction.

    If it is safe to buy, I would consider bid on it if it show up in auction.

    Also, with this much press, if the government really wanted it, they would go for it before it sold, like the 1974-D aluminum cent. But as mentioned, I doubt they would go for this given they’ve let all the other ones sell.

  • dunkleosteus430dunkleosteus430 Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭

    If they wanted too, I'm sure the government could claim ownership of all U.S. coins and confiscate them. I think the only time that that has been done on a large scale was in 1933, though, and it wasn't that bad.

    Young Numismatist

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Absolutely an amazing coin <3

    I did not know this coin even existed!!!

    That is one of the main reasons that I love error coins, you never know what will show up next.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins

    You disappeared for a while and came back to start another great thread. Thanks. The coin is really great and the discussion is very interesting. I enjoy it very much.

  • bob48bob48 Posts: 449 ✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:
    If you buy this coin in auction can the government confiscate it?

    or would they charge you $1.25 to monetize it.

    Bob

    *
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dunkleosteus430 said:
    If they wanted too, I'm sure the government could claim ownership of all U.S. coins and confiscate them. I think the only time that that has been done on a large scale was in 1933, though, and it wasn't that bad.

    per either the recent hansen video thread or the nnc collection i started, one of them stated it happened also the in 1830s or so which may have resulted partially to the rarity of the 1822 $5.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whaaaaa!?!
    This is nuts, the fun kind of nuts lol!
    Time for me to start opening some of my old Sac rolls again :smiley:

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • dunkleosteus430dunkleosteus430 Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    per either the recent hansen video thread or the nnc collection i started, one of them stated it happened also the in 1830s or so which may have resulted partially to the rarity of the 1822 $5.

    1830s, 1930s... Maybe the government confiscates large sums of coins every century? Look out for the 2030s.

    Young Numismatist

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 979 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2022 5:19PM

    I have a favorite word for the many decades of US Mint made for collector error coins:

    SHENANIGANS !

    Don't try to understand these made for collector coins, do not be bothered whether its wrongly struck in gold, or the many muled dies for several die pairs, or wonder about the many just so cool naturals riddled out of coinage production stream and then obviously spirited out, snuck out the our all USA Mints:

    ALL are SHENANIGANS!!!

    I love collecting but have acquired just a just few assisted made for collector coins.

    Whereas some dealers of such material have pounds available for 50 years, slowly leaking as years & decades go bye bye.

    All are legal, so enjoy your 1913 Liberty Nickels ! Do explain to me how one 1913
    Philly Mint employee owned and sold all 5, please... How many 1804 dollars were struck in 1804 ? Patterns ? Seriously everyone knows
    the Mints leaked collector coins and still do...

    The more you know, the more you know...

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2022 5:08PM

    @LindyS said:
    I have a favorite word for the many decades of US Mint made for collector error coins:

    SHENANIGANS !
    […]
    I love collecting but have acquired just a just few assisted made for collector coins.

    I always got the impression you really like these from the coins that you own and the ones you asked Ron Landis to make.

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 979 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2022 12:24AM

    I do

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2022 8:52PM

    @jt88 said:
    If you buy this coin in auction can the government confiscate it?

    Is this a "coin" if there's no denomination? ;)

    I know the collecting community may call it a coin but it seems the government and coin collecting community have different definitions of some things.

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