@craig44 said:
He is a team culture changer. they would have won a Super Bowl with Brady.
Nope. One player cannot change an entire franchise. He might be the last factor needed to make a team successful like Brady did for Tampa Bay. Brady could not fix stupid in the front and coaching offices.
If you don't think so, read "season in the sun" and get the skinny from Arians and the coaching staff and front office of the Bucs. according to all that matter in Tampa, Brady was in fact a team culture changer. not my words, theirs. they would know.
…or they’d just like to sell a(nother) book to Tom Brady’s fan base.
It can be difficult not to fall into the trap of the media hype machine in general and in sports. They’ll get you to believe some ridiculous things. I’ve actually heard people credit Michael Jordan for game winning shots made by Steve Kerr and John Paxson! We’re veering into that territory now with Tom Terrific.
I enjoy reading it, it’s fun bar room talk but it really diminishes and in some ways disrespects his teammates.
...
I am sure that there are inaccuracies stated as facts when it comes to anything, but in this case a lot of Bucs players and staff are on the record as talking about it. Watch this.
It’s all good. I’m not trying to knock Tom Brady and don’t want to come off that way.
When I think of players who ‘changed the culture’ of a franchise in ALL sports?
The list is really, really short.
Being a great player, a great leader or a massive upgrade to the player you replace (all true of Brady, with both Bledsoe and Winston) and having better results doesn’t mean you ‘changed the culture’.
And to be frank, a lot of people - especially athletes - have no clue what they’re talking about with respect to sports, even if they played it at a high level.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Here's another good video where McCoy goes into more detail. If anyone does not want to watch, I'll just share some tidbits.
He talks about how Brady was very humble, and didn't want to overstep Arians in regard to the offensive gameplans. After the bye week the year they won the SB, Brady started introducing the offense he wanted to run.
They also talk about how Brady often ignores young offensive players from other teams, but will be very friendly with defensive players from other teams. And it's implied that a lot of players are in awe of him, and the defensive players that he befriends take a little bit off their hits when they tackle Brady.
Also, McCoy says that Brady talks about his goal being not just the GOAT football player, but athlete, and his Brady sees himself as competing with Jordan as well.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
It’s all good. I’m not trying to knock Tom Brady and don’t want to come off that way.
When I think of players who ‘changed the culture’ of a franchise in ALL sports?
The list is really, really short.
Being a great player, a great leader or a massive upgrade to the player you replace (all true of Brady, with both Bledsoe and Winston) and having better results doesn’t mean you ‘changed the culture’.
And to be frank, a lot of people - especially athletes - have no clue what they’re talking about with respect to sports, even if they played it at a high level.
..
Who do you have on that short list..? This might fork this thread into even more interesting territory (especially for the non-Pats fans, of which I believe there are at least a baker's dozen here).
Another thing is Parcells convincing Curtis Martin to go sign with the Jets only made things worse from a fan standpoint when Martin went on to have a great career in NY over the next 8-10yrs.
...
Yes, that was also a very big deal. I can actually , just now, remember being at my dining room table, up in my childhood home in Massachusetts, reading that in the Globe or the Ledger (South shore newspaper).
@thisistheshow said:
I like that we have Patriots/Belichick/Parcells talk going in more than one thread simultaneously. 🏈
I also like the way way @fergie23 put it above (and now below)...
@fergie23 said:
What BB did was put together a roster and game plan that kept almost every game close for Brady's entire career. That allowed Brady to be the hero and shine in the biggest moments and importantly not have the defense crack when they had the lead late.
You saw the same thing in New England when Brady left, only the Pats didn't have a QB that could get the job done when it mattered. There were only 3 games in the entire 2020 season the Pats weren't within one score in the 4th quarter. Instead of 7-9, with Brady they would have been 11-5 or so.
As for the Lions, I am sure Brady would have managed to win with them as well. QB play and schedule are the most important factors in winning in the NFL. Would they have made a Super Bowl? Who knows, there is a lot of good fortune in making the SB (unless you are Brady & BB). The Bucs only missed out last year because Godwin blew out his knee and Bowles decided to not double team the best WR in football in 2021 (a mistake BB wouldn't have made).
Robb
....
As a huge Patriots/Brady fan and sports junkie, I have delved pretty deeply into some off the beaten path reading about these topics. And I have come to conclusions that I feel comfortable with.
Belichick and Brady, I'll say it again, were the perfect storm.
Belichick brought to NE something and was trying to cultivate something great. Wouldn't have been nearly as successful without Brady. But as Fergie said, Belichick was an amazingly stabilizing factor, a rock with always-available strength and consistency. Brady was allowed to grow and flourish and sustain and fine-tune his greatness.
Brady brought a lot of greatness with him to NE, as opposed to the common belief. And if we fast forward just a little, to the final drive of the Patriots first SB win, we see that the Brady we now know was in many ways already there.
Parcells was amazing. No two ways about it. I don't know much about his Giants departure, @1951WheatiesPremium , and I'll probably read a bit later if I remember, but feel free to share some here. I am interested.
Ugh. Reliving this hurts.
Bill Parcells was a total nobody when the Giants hired him. He had been a practice squad player for one year in the NFL, a college linebackers coach and the head coach of Air Force. That was his resume. He was given four years and full support by the Giants to figure it all out. George Young allows him the lions share of the credit publicly and puts together a SuperBowl caliber roster for him. The Giants, who’d had one winning season in the ten years before Parcells, now have 2 SBs after the ten years there.
In typical fashion, Bill Parcells thinks it’s all Bill Parcells and - almost the moment the game ends - goes to the owners and asks for more money and to also fire George Young so that he can be the general manager. Still an absurd ask today, it was even more absurd back then and the Mara family agrees to consider more money and rightly says no flatly to the GM request. Bill Parcells then enters into faithless negotiations, convinces the Giants he’s coming back and gets them to bless his talented assistant’s and coach in waiting’s departure to a head coaching position in Cleveland and then four months into the off-season where he had no new contract, ‘health reasons’ cause him to retire. Reasons that he wouldn’t talk about or explain at the time and still won’t talk about or explain 30 years later. Since these ‘health reasons’ appeared in May (!)and the off-season hires and draft were over, the Giants had little choice but to promote Ray F. Handley to head coach.
In isolation and at the time in an ESPN free world where a guy retiring meant he actually stopped, no one thought much of it. Since he basically went on to do the same things three more times to three more teams in a near identical pattern, attempting to screw them on the way out the door because they didn’t give in to his demands and then also stick it to them from the new destination in every single way he could?
And I guess what makes it worse - at least to me - is that we made him into somebody, he showed zero gratitude, massively and intentionally set the franchise back that off-season and for all intents and purposes suffered no backlash incurring almost the opposite to the point where he garnered actual sympathy and well wishes upon his retirement.
In hindsight, every Giants fan was the emotional sports equivalent of a serial killers first victim. There were no warning signs, no reason to believe this guy was going to hurt us. I can almost imagine the reporter talking to the Giants “neighbors” - the Jets - in the days afterwards?
“I mean, no, not really, he [Parcells] just seemed like such a nice guy. He was quiet, kinda kept to himself but always polite when I saw him…”
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Amazing stuff! Thank you @1951WheatiesPremium for taking the time to type that out. Reading that puts a lot into perspective and makes a lot of his future departures make more sense.
I'm not saying this to defend Parcells, but I was just thinking about something...when he was coaching the Giants at that time, the money involved wasn't the same as it is now. I understand that players and head coaches were very well compensated, but I've always heard that some of Parcells later departures and arrivals often involved money and debt.
Brady was the perfect guy for that system and culture; everything was in place. Detroit had nothing in place to grow a rookie into that caliber of a QB.
@thisistheshow said:
Amazing stuff! Thank you @1951WheatiesPremium for taking the time to type that out. Reading that puts a lot into perspective and makes a lot of his future departures make more sense.
I'm not saying this to defend Parcells, but I was just thinking about something...when he was coaching the Giants at that time, the money involved wasn't the same as it is now. I understand that players and head coaches were very well compensated, but I've always heard that some of Parcells later departures and arrivals often involved money and debt.
I do not hold anything against Bill Parcells and I don’t fail to give him credit for what he accomplished just because he wanted to make the most money possible for being great at his job and was bad at breaking up. Big talent almost always come with big egos.
He basically took 4 totally irrelevant franchises (NYG, NE, NYJ, DAL) and made them incredibly relevant by becoming their head coach, replacing apathy with urgency everywhere he went and changing the trajectory of each franchise toward accountability and winning.
That is cultural change.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Comments
...
I am sure that there are inaccuracies stated as facts when it comes to anything, but in this case a lot of Bucs players and staff are on the record as talking about it. Watch this.
It’s all good. I’m not trying to knock Tom Brady and don’t want to come off that way.
When I think of players who ‘changed the culture’ of a franchise in ALL sports?
The list is really, really short.
Being a great player, a great leader or a massive upgrade to the player you replace (all true of Brady, with both Bledsoe and Winston) and having better results doesn’t mean you ‘changed the culture’.
And to be frank, a lot of people - especially athletes - have no clue what they’re talking about with respect to sports, even if they played it at a high level.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Here's another good video where McCoy goes into more detail. If anyone does not want to watch, I'll just share some tidbits.
He talks about how Brady was very humble, and didn't want to overstep Arians in regard to the offensive gameplans. After the bye week the year they won the SB, Brady started introducing the offense he wanted to run.
They also talk about how Brady often ignores young offensive players from other teams, but will be very friendly with defensive players from other teams. And it's implied that a lot of players are in awe of him, and the defensive players that he befriends take a little bit off their hits when they tackle Brady.
Also, McCoy says that Brady talks about his goal being not just the GOAT football player, but athlete, and his Brady sees himself as competing with Jordan as well.
Edited for spelling
Edited again to add the video.
https://youtu.be/LT_hRl18ye0
..
Who do you have on that short list..? This might fork this thread into even more interesting territory (especially for the non-Pats fans, of which I believe there are at least a baker's dozen here).
@thisistheshow
Lew Alcindor in Milwaukee and Larry Bird in Boston come to mind immediately.
I’ll think on it some and work on a more comprehensive list.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
...
Yes, that was also a very big deal. I can actually , just now, remember being at my dining room table, up in my childhood home in Massachusetts, reading that in the Globe or the Ledger (South shore newspaper).
Ugh. Reliving this hurts.
Bill Parcells was a total nobody when the Giants hired him. He had been a practice squad player for one year in the NFL, a college linebackers coach and the head coach of Air Force. That was his resume. He was given four years and full support by the Giants to figure it all out. George Young allows him the lions share of the credit publicly and puts together a SuperBowl caliber roster for him. The Giants, who’d had one winning season in the ten years before Parcells, now have 2 SBs after the ten years there.
In typical fashion, Bill Parcells thinks it’s all Bill Parcells and - almost the moment the game ends - goes to the owners and asks for more money and to also fire George Young so that he can be the general manager. Still an absurd ask today, it was even more absurd back then and the Mara family agrees to consider more money and rightly says no flatly to the GM request. Bill Parcells then enters into faithless negotiations, convinces the Giants he’s coming back and gets them to bless his talented assistant’s and coach in waiting’s departure to a head coaching position in Cleveland and then four months into the off-season where he had no new contract, ‘health reasons’ cause him to retire. Reasons that he wouldn’t talk about or explain at the time and still won’t talk about or explain 30 years later. Since these ‘health reasons’ appeared in May (!)and the off-season hires and draft were over, the Giants had little choice but to promote Ray F. Handley to head coach.
In isolation and at the time in an ESPN free world where a guy retiring meant he actually stopped, no one thought much of it. Since he basically went on to do the same things three more times to three more teams in a near identical pattern, attempting to screw them on the way out the door because they didn’t give in to his demands and then also stick it to them from the new destination in every single way he could?
And I guess what makes it worse - at least to me - is that we made him into somebody, he showed zero gratitude, massively and intentionally set the franchise back that off-season and for all intents and purposes suffered no backlash incurring almost the opposite to the point where he garnered actual sympathy and well wishes upon his retirement.
In hindsight, every Giants fan was the emotional sports equivalent of a serial killers first victim. There were no warning signs, no reason to believe this guy was going to hurt us. I can almost imagine the reporter talking to the Giants “neighbors” - the Jets - in the days afterwards?
“I mean, no, not really, he [Parcells] just seemed like such a nice guy. He was quiet, kinda kept to himself but always polite when I saw him…”
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Amazing stuff! Thank you @1951WheatiesPremium for taking the time to type that out. Reading that puts a lot into perspective and makes a lot of his future departures make more sense.
I'm not saying this to defend Parcells, but I was just thinking about something...when he was coaching the Giants at that time, the money involved wasn't the same as it is now. I understand that players and head coaches were very well compensated, but I've always heard that some of Parcells later departures and arrivals often involved money and debt.
Brady was the perfect guy for that system and culture; everything was in place. Detroit had nothing in place to grow a rookie into that caliber of a QB.
I do not hold anything against Bill Parcells and I don’t fail to give him credit for what he accomplished just because he wanted to make the most money possible for being great at his job and was bad at breaking up. Big talent almost always come with big egos.
He basically took 4 totally irrelevant franchises (NYG, NE, NYJ, DAL) and made them incredibly relevant by becoming their head coach, replacing apathy with urgency everywhere he went and changing the trajectory of each franchise toward accountability and winning.
That is cultural change.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest