Restoration Recommended PCGS Sticker

abdelmeg1

I recently submitted a PCGS graded MS64 $20 Saint to PCGS for Reconsideration. The coin is AWESOME with excellent eye appeal. PCGS did not upgrade the coin (that can be understood). But the coin came back with a sticker from PCGS on the old holder saying that the PCGS graders recommend RESTORATION for that coin. The coin has awesome eye appeal, no spots, no toning. Any comments ?

airplanenut

Do you have a picture? Is there anything specific mentioned for why they recommend restoration? It's pretty hard to guess from just words.

TPRC

I think you should have it restored. The only time I did this based upon a similar note, and it was through NGC, my commem upgraded after restoration from a 64 to a 67. So, I generally infer from such a comment that it will either fix a problem or condition that needs to be fixed, and/or the grade also will improve. Of course, there is no guarantee and if you can't see the problem to begin with, you are wise to be cautious until you do see it or until someone who does see it can explain the problem to you.

PerryHall

Can we get pics of this coin? Perhaps they found PVC on it.

Cougar1978

Curious - what is cost of restoration on that piece?

I would appreciate seeing a photo of the piece? Could it have PVC?

lilolme

Being a $20 saint my first thought was putty.

@abdelmeg1
Your role is applicant so posting images is limited. could be days or weeks for role of member.
You can post a link to a photo on another site.

You can post some images from other sites by using the drop down box Images URL located on the top right end in the comment box. Will need the copied Image Address and paste I the drop down box and hit enter. If it loads text into the comment box it probably worked. Check by clicking the preview button on the bottom. If it does not load, then might not work from that site.

If you have an account on PCGS for the registry or inventory. Then can load the image at the PCGS inventory. Copy the image address from there and then do the paste thing here and it will load (all of mine did from pcgs inventory as an applicant). If it has a TV image then you can also post that similarly (all of those worked for me as applicant also).

MFeld

@TPRC said:
I think you should have it restored. The only time I did this based upon a similar note, and it was through NGC, my commem upgraded after restoration from a 64 to a 67. So, I generally infer from such a comment that it will either fix a problem or condition that needs to be fixed, and/or the grade also will improve. Of course, there is no guarantee and if you can't see the problem to begin with, you are wise to be cautious until you do see it or until someone who does see it can explain the problem to you.

I certainly wouldn’t make such a recommendation without knowing more and what the coin looked like. I’m glad for you that your one experience was a good one, but that tells us nothing about this situation.

stawick

I got that sticker on my 2014 Gold Kennedy 50c commem, and my 2016 Gold WLH 100th anniversary when they were graded. They originally came back 69, I sent them in and they bumped to 70 after restoration, but no guarantees. (I have a semi-recent post about it.)
There is a base cost (~$30-ish??) + like 3% of the price guide value after re-grading. So you wont know for certain until after it gets restored. You'll have to look for the Restoration service form for specifics.
Try -> here <- . I saw a link to the form toward the bottom of that page.

Mine had small red copper-rust or something that appeared, possibly after the airtites were cracked open, as I never saw it when submitted - and they stood out. The restoration resolved that completely.

I'm thinking of sending my 1912 $5 Indian 1/2 eagle in at some point. Its on the brown-ish side, and would like to see if any better gold luster will come thru.

BryceM

Could be PVC, could be putty, less likely bothersome copper spots. If it's a generic-date MS64 Saint, the potential for added value might not justify the expense. As many others have said, it depends on the coin!

messydesk

Need a picture. All I can do is guess otherwise, and my guess would be some foreign substance on the coin that wasn't seen whenever it was first graded that is now visible -- PVC or putty. Worth it if it would have a legitimate shot at 65, but otherwise only if whatever they see is distracting.

abdelmeg1

I posted the images on Ebay. May be you can post them directly on this site for everybody to see since you are a member.

Here is the link. Ebay item # 144593474454

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144593474454

Your input has been greatly appreciated.

@lilolme said:
Being a $20 saint my first thought was putty.

@abdelmeg1
Your role is applicant so posting images is limited. could be days or weeks for role of member.
You can post a link to a photo on another site.

You can post some images from other sites by using the drop down box Images URL located on the top right end in the comment box. Will need the copied Image Address and paste I the drop down box and hit enter. If it loads text into the comment box it probably worked. Check by clicking the preview button on the bottom. If it does not load, then might not work from that site.

If you have an account on PCGS for the registry or inventory. Then can load the image at the PCGS inventory. Copy the image address from there and then do the paste thing here and it will load (all of mine did from pcgs inventory as an applicant). If it has a TV image then you can also post that similarly (all of those worked for me as applicant also).

abdelmeg1

I posted the images on Ebay.

Here is the link. Ebay item # 144593474454

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144593474454

Your input has been greatly appreciated.

abdelmeg1

My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

ifthevamzarockin

jmlanzaf

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

abdelmeg1

@airplanenut said:
Do you have a picture? Is there anything specific mentioned for why they recommend restoration? It's pretty hard to guess from just words.

No. Nothing specific mentioned. And I really do not see any blemishes. My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

abdelmeg1

@PerryHall said:
Can we get pics of this coin? Perhaps they found PVC on it.

I posted a link to the photos. Thank you.

MFeld

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

abdelmeg1

@messydesk said:
Need a picture. All I can do is guess otherwise, and my guess would be some foreign substance on the coin that wasn't seen whenever it was first graded that is now visible -- PVC or putty. Worth it if it would have a legitimate shot at 65, but otherwise only if whatever they see is distracting.

Thank you. I posted a link to the photos.

MsMorrisine

the marks you don't see are under the putty you do see.

I'm not sure what to tell you to do with it.

It'd be dishonest to sell it without disclosing the putty.

abdelmeg1

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

jmlanzaf

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think. > @MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

I think it's on the reverse also.

jmlanzaf

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

All of that pinkish filminess is likely putty.

lilolme

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

Start with the obverse and above the upper left arm, see what sort of looks like a plum of smoke going up in the field. That is it. Now look over the coin and you should see this coloration over the body and elsewhere. The reverse as jmlanzaf stated may have it. Check in the rays and below. Maybe elsewhere.

BryceM

1924-D???? That's cool. Way more valuable than a generic Saint.

There's tons of putty, but the easiest to see is under Liberty's left (viewer's right) armpit and above the same shoulder. It's all over the place really. In MS64, this is a $16k coin. In MS65 it would be worth $70-100k.

The potential value changes things. Whatever you do, don't crack it out. Undoubtedly there is some unrecognized ugliness hiding under the putty. It was put there to hide problems. Once it's removed the coin might not even warrant a straight grade. It may well be a problem coin with ugly hairlines or distracting hits. Even without all that, the coin has enough abrasions that I doubt it has MS65 potential.

I'd like to hear the advice of others, but I'd probably send it in under the "restoration" option. Did they give you the option prior to shipping it back to you? If not, too bad. If the coin is restored and determined to not meet current MS64 standards, the grade guarantee will come into play and PCGS will probably negotiate something with you. I don't think I'd try to sell it as-is. Sorry you ended up with a coin with issues.

abdelmeg1

@lilolme said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

Start with the obverse and above the upper left arm, see what sort of looks like a plum of smoke going up in the field. That is it. Now look over the coin and you should see this coloration over the body and elsewhere. The reverse as jmlanzaf stated may have it. Check in the rays and below. Maybe elsewhere.

First , Thank you for your time. I looked with a 10x, that haze looking smoke is the plastic of the holder and away from the coin , when you tilt the coin. I see it also on the bosom and belly, and right upper thigh. the plastic is smoky and little scrtached. Does that help ?

jmlanzaf

@abdelmeg1 said:

@lilolme said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

Start with the obverse and above the upper left arm, see what sort of looks like a plum of smoke going up in the field. That is it. Now look over the coin and you should see this coloration over the body and elsewhere. The reverse as jmlanzaf stated may have it. Check in the rays and below. Maybe elsewhere.

First , Thank you for your time. I looked with a 10x, that haze looking smoke is the plastic of the holder and away from the coin , when you tilt the coin. I see it also on the bosom and belly, and right upper thigh. the plastic is smoky and little scrtached. Does that help ?

You should not need a 10x loupe to inspect the plastic.

I've never seen smoky PCGS plastic.

If what you say is true, your photos are deceptive and we can be of no help.

alaura22

@abdelmeg1 said:
My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

MS64 @ $20,000
MS65 @ $125,000
Do you think it would be worth it since they recommend RESTORATION for that coin.???

abdelmeg1

@jmlanzaf said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

All of that pinkish filminess is likely putty.

First thank you for your time and input. That pinkish filminess is in the plastic of the holder. When I look with a 10x, and tilt the coin, it moves with plastic and is separate from the coin itself. Very clear on the bosom, belly and upper right thigh. It looks like haziness in the plastic (the plastic has also many fine scratches). Does that help ?

jmlanzaf

@alaura22 said:

@abdelmeg1 said:
My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

MS64 @ $20,000
MS65 @ $125,000
Do you think it would be worth it since they recommend RESTORATION for that coin.???

Yes. If it is Putty, its a tough sell even as a 64. Paying 3% of 64 money to get a nice 64 will pay off even if it doesn't upgrade.

jmlanzaf

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:

@abdelmeg1 said:
My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

MS64 @ $20,000
MS65 @ $125,000
Do you think it would be worth it since they recommend RESTORATION for that coin.???

Yes. If it is Putty, its a tough sell even as a 64. Paying 3% of 64 money to get a nice 64 will pay off even if it doesn't upgrade.

Shoot angled photos or take a video while rotating.

lilolme

@abdelmeg1 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

All of that pinkish filminess is likely putty.

First thank you for your time and input. That pinkish filminess is in the plastic of the holder. When I look with a 10x, and tilt the coin, it moves with plastic and is separate from the coin itself. Very clear on the bosom, belly and upper right thigh. It looks like haziness in the plastic (the plastic has also many fine scratches). Does that help ?

I zoomed in on the photos. Hard to see this as all being haze in the plastic. The plastic will usually scratch. Also remember the graders saw something.

jmlanzaf has a good idea with different photos at angle.

.

abdelmeg1

@BryceM said:
1924-D???? That's cool. Way more valuable than a generic Saint.

There's tons of putty, but the easiest to see is under Liberty's left (viewer's right) armpit and above the same shoulder. It's all over the place really. In MS64, this is a $16k coin. In MS65 it would be worth $70-100k.

The potential value changes things. Whatever you do, don't crack it out. Undoubtedly there is some unrecognized ugliness hiding under the putty. It was put there to hide problems. Once it's removed the coin might not even warrant a straight grade. It may well be a problem coin with ugly hairlines or distracting hits. Even without all that, the coin has enough abrasions that I doubt it has MS65 potential.

I'd like to hear the advice of others, but I'd probably send it in under the "restoration" option. Did they give you the option prior to shipping it back to you? If not, too bad. If the coin is restored and determined to not meet current MS64 standards, the grade guarantee will come into play and PCGS will probably negotiate something with you. I don't think I'd try to sell it as-is. Sorry you ended up with a coin with issues.

First , Thank you for your time. 1. No, they did not offer restoration before shipping, just a sticker came with the coin. 2. I looked with a 10x, that haze looking smoke is the plastic of the holder and away from the coin , when you tilt the coin. I see it also on the bosom and belly, and right upper thigh. the plastic is smoky and little scratched. All that smoky stuff is clearly in the plastic, separate from the coin. Very clear when when you tilt the holder at a sharp angle. Does that help ?

Luxor

If (IF) that coin is puttied, PCGS should be buying that coin back and taking it out of circulation, not recommending that you spend more $$ having the coin restored IMO. Online pics can be very deceiving and making a 100% diagnosis of putty based on one online pic is not very reliable.

lilolme

@abdelmeg1 said:

@BryceM said:
1924-D???? That's cool. Way more valuable than a generic Saint.

There's tons of putty, but the easiest to see is under Liberty's left (viewer's right) armpit and above the same shoulder. It's all over the place really. In MS64, this is a $16k coin. In MS65 it would be worth $70-100k.

The potential value changes things. Whatever you do, don't crack it out. Undoubtedly there is some unrecognized ugliness hiding under the putty. It was put there to hide problems. Once it's removed the coin might not even warrant a straight grade. It may well be a problem coin with ugly hairlines or distracting hits. Even without all that, the coin has enough abrasions that I doubt it has MS65 potential.

I'd like to hear the advice of others, but I'd probably send it in under the "restoration" option. Did they give you the option prior to shipping it back to you? If not, too bad. If the coin is restored and determined to not meet current MS64 standards, the grade guarantee will come into play and PCGS will probably negotiate something with you. I don't think I'd try to sell it as-is. Sorry you ended up with a coin with issues.

First , Thank you for your time. 1. No, they did not offer restoration before shipping, just a sticker came with the coin. 2. I looked with a 10x, that haze looking smoke is the plastic of the holder and away from the coin , when you tilt the coin. I see it also on the bosom and belly, and right upper thigh. the plastic is smoky and little scratched. All that smoky stuff is clearly in the plastic, separate from the coin. Very clear when when you tilt the holder at a sharp angle. Does that help ?

Yes that helps if it is not on the coin, then that is not it. But it still looks like putty in the picture. Again jmlanzaf recommendation might help.
However, the graders saw something and therefore the recommendation sticker.

abdelmeg1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144593474454

@jmlanzaf said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:

@abdelmeg1 said:
My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

MS64 @ $20,000
MS65 @ $125,000
Do you think it would be worth it since they recommend RESTORATION for that coin.???

Yes. If it is Putty, its a tough sell even as a 64. Paying 3% of 64 money to get a nice 64 will pay off even if it doesn't upgrade.

Shoot angled photos or take a video while rotating.

That's a good idea. Thank you.

abdelmeg1

@jmlanzaf said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@lilolme said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

Start with the obverse and above the upper left arm, see what sort of looks like a plum of smoke going up in the field. That is it. Now look over the coin and you should see this coloration over the body and elsewhere. The reverse as jmlanzaf stated may have it. Check in the rays and below. Maybe elsewhere.

First , Thank you for your time. I looked with a 10x, that haze looking smoke is the plastic of the holder and away from the coin , when you tilt the coin. I see it also on the bosom and belly, and right upper thigh. the plastic is smoky and little scrtached. Does that help ?

You should not need a 10x loupe to inspect the plastic.

I've never seen smoky PCGS plastic.

If what you say is true, your photos are deceptive and we can be of no help.

By the way, I did not mention that the pictures were a SCAN (done with a scanner) not with a camera.

abdelmeg1

@lilolme said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Putty, I think.

It appears so on the obverse.

Where exactly do you see that, Mark ? Thank you.

All of that pinkish filminess is likely putty.

First thank you for your time and input. That pinkish filminess is in the plastic of the holder. When I look with a 10x, and tilt the coin, it moves with plastic and is separate from the coin itself. Very clear on the bosom, belly and upper right thigh. It looks like haziness in the plastic (the plastic has also many fine scratches). Does that help ?

I zoomed in on the photos. Hard to see this as all being haze in the plastic. The plastic will usually scratch. Also remember the graders saw something.

jmlanzaf has a good idea with different photos at angle.

.

By the way, I did not mention that the pictures were a SCAN (done with a scanner) not with a camera.

abdelmeg1

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:

@abdelmeg1 said:
My concern would be that they charge 3% of value of the coin after restoration, EVEN if it does not upgrade. So, for a coin where I cannot see a significant blemish, that does not make a lot of sense.

MS64 @ $20,000
MS65 @ $125,000
Do you think it would be worth it since they recommend RESTORATION for that coin.???

Yes. If it is Putty, its a tough sell even as a 64. Paying 3% of 64 money to get a nice 64 will pay off even if it doesn't upgrade.

That makes sense, That's probably the best thing to do. Thank you.

abdelmeg1

@abdelmeg1 said:

@BryceM said:
1924-D???? That's cool. Way more valuable than a generic Saint.

There's tons of putty, but the easiest to see is under Liberty's left (viewer's right) armpit and above the same shoulder. It's all over the place really. In MS64, this is a $16k coin. In MS65 it would be worth $70-100k.

The potential value changes things. Whatever you do, don't crack it out. Undoubtedly there is some unrecognized ugliness hiding under the putty. It was put there to hide problems. Once it's removed the coin might not even warrant a straight grade. It may well be a problem coin with ugly hairlines or distracting hits. Even without all that, the coin has enough abrasions that I doubt it has MS65 potential.

I'd like to hear the advice of others, but I'd probably send it in under the "restoration" option. Did they give you the option prior to shipping it back to you? If not, too bad. If the coin is restored and determined to not meet current MS64 standards, the grade guarantee will come into play and PCGS will probably negotiate something with you. I don't think I'd try to sell it as-is. Sorry you ended up with a coin with issues.

First , Thank you for your time. 1. No, they did not offer restoration before shipping, just a sticker came with the coin. 2. I looked with a 10x, that haze looking smoke is the plastic of the holder and away from the coin , when you tilt the coin. I see it also on the bosom and belly, and right upper thigh. the plastic is smoky and little scratched. All that smoky stuff is clearly in the plastic, separate from the coin. Very clear when when you tilt the holder at a sharp angle. Does that help ?

By the way, I did not mention that the pictures were a SCAN (done with a scanner) not with a camera.

abdelmeg1

@Luxor said:
If (IF) that coin is puttied, PCGS should be buying that coin back and taking it out of circulation, not recommending that you spend more $$ having the coin restored IMO. Online pics can be very deceiving and making a 100% diagnosis of putty based on one online pic is not very reliable.

By the way, I did not mention that the pictures were a SCAN (done with a scanner) not with a camera.

ifthevamzarockin

"By the way, I did not mention that the pictures were a SCAN (done with a scanner) not with a camera."

Okay.....Okay..... we got it! It's a scan!

abdelmeg1

@ifthevamzarockin said:
"By the way, I did not mention that the pictures were a SCAN (done with a scanner) not with a camera."

Okay.....Okay..... we got it! It's a scan!

Does that change your assessment ?

ifthevamzarockin

@abdelmeg1 said:
Does that change your assessment ?

No, not really but I haven't given my assessment yet.

abdelmeg1

@ifthevamzarockin said:

@abdelmeg1 said:
Does that change your assessment ?

No, not really but I haven't given my assessment yet.

I am interested in hearing (reading) it.

ifthevamzarockin

Even with the questions/problem it's a great coin.

I see what others are seeing, there is something on the coin. (Toning/Putty/Haze/Discoloration)
Just because you are not seeing it there are enough members seeing it.
What I am seeing is not on the holder because plastic will not haze or discolor like that.
Better photos are needed to get a better idea of what is going on with the coin or to show the haze on the holder.
The photos are good enough to see there is not a very good chance at an upgrade.
It may be worth sending it back for restoration with the grade guarantee.

BryceM

Smoky plastic..... um, OK, not sure what that means.

Still looks like putty on the surface of the coin to me. Look at the area below and to the right of the olive branch. There is no reflectivity there. No luster. That can possibly be artifact from a scan, but it looks like a big patch of gunk was applied to hide the abrasions which can be seen underneath. Over time, putty opacifies, and becomes noticeable.

There's some reason they recommended restoration, and the most likely culprit from these photos is putty.

lkeigwin

It would be smart to submit it for conservation, knowing that the grade is guaranteed. Which means it will not grade lower or the PCGS grade-guarantee would apply. I.e., a payout would be made for the lost value with a downgrade.

PCGS is doing you a favor here. They spotted a serious problem. Get it corrected now, at some cost, or suffer later when it comes time to sell. The problem -- likely, putty and less likely but perhaps PVC, will be detected by potential buyers at its price point. Its condition won't improve over time. It will only get worse and be more blatant.

What's the hurry otherwise? Well, that the grade guarantee policy changes. It has happened in the very recent past. With copper color. With surface contaminants. PCGS has weakened its guarantee without notice. Without suffering. Without challenge.

Do the smart thing.
Lance.

abdelmeg1

Thank you all. Your input has been very helpful. We'll send it to PCGS for restoration as recommended.

alaura22

@abdelmeg1 said:
Thank you all. Your input has been very helpful. We'll send it to PCGS for restoration as recommended.

A wise move
Good luck

ricko

Good decision to have it restored. Let us know the results. Good luck, Cheers, RickO