Crossover results, what would you do?
Herb_T
Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
I recently submitted 9 coins for crossover. 2 did not cross but 7 did. The coins that crossed, all of them, were knocked down one grade lower. There were 5 old white ANACS and 4 old NGC slabbed coins. I think I have 3 options.
Do nothing
Resubmit the crossed over coin for grade reconsideration
Submit to CAC for consideration the coins I believe were penalized by PCGS.
If you believed that they would grade up or gain CAC green bean approval what would you do? A couple were previously AU58 that became AU55 and two were AU55 that became AU53.
I don't have the coins yet, they are waiting for me when i get home later in the month and the TV photos are not yet available.
2
Comments
I would do nothing.
I think this depends upon what it is you are wanting to achieve. Examples: highest value, highest set rating, want to get cac approved for set or other, nicest coin for the grades...
After deciding what the goal or best goal is for you, then go and do it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
the coins are unchanged. Now they will fit in your blue PCGS box. Do nothing.
cross at any grade and 2 did not? I would be concerned about those 2.
Without knowing what coins were involved I'd have to say "do nothing". If theres a significant price jump in the next grade I might consider resubmitting but I'd have to question if the coins are now properly graded... older white ANACS slabs, in general, seem to be a little more generous in grades.... at least the coins I'm collecting. I have an ANACS slabbed 1855 LC that has VF35 on the label, but the Grellman card has it at 30...
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How much time and money do you want to sink into them vs. what is the true difference in liquidity and value between the splitting hair grades of AU53, AU55 and AU58.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I wouldn't have crossed over anything in the first place, but you do you.
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
Why were you willing to accept crossover grades about which you wrote “...coins I believe were penalized by PCGS.” ?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There's a lot between most 55's and 58's. I would just have to go with how comfortable I was evaluating my coins and how strongly you believe in what they should grade. Persistence can pay off, I've done it quite a few times over the years successfully, but the key point is not always! Weight the $'s vrs. the rewards and possibly give that 1 armed bandit another yank!
Depends on the coins. Are we talking 18th century US gold or Susie Bs?
I don’t play the crossover game anymore. If I need a coin in a certain holder/sticker combo, it’s usually easier to buy them that way.
Also @Barndog makes an astute observation. After you get them back, the coins will be just as nice or have just as many problems as they did before.
I'd question my reasoning for crossing the coins, but I like coins more than plastic.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Start with the assumption that PCGS is correct. Ask yourself what you missed.
The cheapest route to a second opinion is CAC if you need one.
Exactly right...but there are several examples (usually higher dollar coins) where it does make sense. I hate the crossover game but I collect chopmarked trade dollars. Not only are many of these scarce so the option to just buy them in the other holder doesn't always exist but NGC will not straight grade them while PCGS will.
In addition to the various aspects of having a straight grade can provide to the collector there can also be a tangible financial benefit. Selling (by the collector or heirs) a MS62 coin will generally be easier and more financially rewarding than an UNC Details.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
CAC is by far the low cost option. Additionally, something given a gold bean (not likely, but not impossible) is big money currently.
I would re-evaluate the coins carefully then send them to CAC regardless of the situation. I like the green and gold beans.
As others have mentioned, it IS the least expensive review option and adds value in the current market if it beans. If the coins were “penalized” they should get gold stickers. Win win.
I have a few coins that I need to be crossed over and I am worried about losing grades too, but only mildly so. Mine are all cherry picker’s varieties so attribution is all that matters to me. I am tempted to crack them out and just send raw coins.
Out of curiosity I would ask your previous results of cross over service, if any.
When you bought them, were there other choices available or were they rare available coins?
It could simply be the luck of the draw or that you sometimes buy over graded coins?
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I cracked out two older ANAC graded CBH AU53, sent them to PCGS and those two graded AU58! Who knows what they will come up with!
I bought them before I decided to start a registry.
1) I concur with this. Since it appears you said "cross at any", these 2 were deemed questionable by our host, See if you can determine the issues.
2) Basically, if you had checked "cross at same", you'd be 0-9. No disrespect, but perhaps tightening your grading skills would be the next step before spending any more $. Use this experience as tuition for future collecting.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
My 2c ... other than "Let's talk!"
... I would study the coins when you get them back and decide if they were penalized, or if the previous grades were topped out, and PCGS gave them the next logical grade down. Obviously the two that did not cross at all need to be examined. If they are in older NGC and ANACS white, the graders might have been afraid of something with the rims.
Also, based on what I've seen with using the 55 grade as a center-point ... lower end 58's, all 55's and high end 53's can be REALLY hard to differentiate sometimes, and I think it is for the graders too, so it's a little of the luck of the draw. This is something we should all remember when buying ... not to pay up unless we are SURE it's all there.
Last point. A lot of coins get graded until they are in "coffins" or "happy coins", depending on your point of view. Once they're there, that's it. Then you have to analyze the value and if the reward is worth any downside risk. For those coins, usually the answer is no.
Oh yeah, as mentioned ... how far do you invest in getting them into a different holder. Are they that special?
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
DON"T trust any TPG to do what you think is right.
They are all about the $$$$$'s the more you send in the more $$$$$$$'s the make
I'm going to guess that the two coins PCGS flat refused to cross looked cleaned or had a color they didn't like.
The change over a few years back requiring only PCGS coins in PCGS registry sets was the last day I even gave registry sets a thought.
I would take option number 1.
Without knowing the value of the coins its hard to make a call, but if lower value coins I would send them to CAC as it is relatively inexpensive and if high value coins I would decide individually as S/H and Insurance both ways is not cheap.
Best of luck.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Pictures? Dates? Denomination! Grades? Price spread? Without details there is no chance on receiving constructive feedback.
And don’t drink the Kool Aid. Not every coin need be PCGS and CACed. Plastic and stickers matter more, however, for high value coins where your goal is to sell the coins.
Its true... the crackout game can go either way. It just seems that they were a little more lenient on older copper. The newer generation of ANACS slabs seem to do pretty well in identifying issues...
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If I felt any were conservatively graded...it happens with crosses...I'd have them regraded (where they're cracked and reviewed raw). But only where a bump made financial sense.
CAC can wait.
Lance.
@DollarAfterDollar
I thought it has always been that way
Martin
I would likely just accept the coins as graded.... If you really feel strongly about the issue, I see two routes possible, CAC and settle for their judgement, or crack and resubmit raw. Final decision is yours to make. Just as an aside... I do not agree with the term 'penalized'... The graders gave an honest evaluation of the coins condition. Cheers, RickO
If no coins cross, they complain.
If some cross and some don't, they complain about the ones that don't.
If some upgrade, they complain about the ones that didn't.
If they all upgrade, they complain that some or all won't CAC.
If they all CAC, they complain that some didn't get the gold bean.
Will there ever be a time when it's about the coin itself again and not the holder?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Wait until PCGS gets back to normal (you may have to wait a while) and resubmit them as a regrade. In the interim sending them to CAC is probably a good idea and if a coin doesn’t sticker you may choose not to have such coin regraded.
The PCGS registry has never allowed any coins other than those in PCGS plastic, your inventory can have other TPG's and even raw, but the registry has never changed its PCGS only requirement that I know of.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I don’t pay above the grade on the holder. So if the seller wants to argue it’s higher I just tell them “send it in then” or “hey they just made fresh coffee.” My offer based on grade on holder and what think can sell for.
For your situation:
I would consider an inventory write down adjustment to 70pct CPG per the grade on the PCGS holder for downgraded items (sch c loss). I would then price them around CPG or CF per the grade on the PCGS holder.
Send to CAC? Need more data. If the higher CAC CPG MV (grade on holder) justifies the expense. Otherwise no. Expenses of sending to CAC I would charge to expense. My goal is move items / quick turnover. The sticker will increase buyer interest and potential sell realized so possibly a good play call.
Yes it can be disappointing taking a downgrade loss. However it’s all in the game. Some plays make yardage some don’t. I just move on, take responsibility for my decision.
I will play the crackout game instead.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
If I sent coins in for crossover and a lower grade wasn't acceptable I would have filled in the Min. Grade field on the form.
Being it's after the fact I'd look the coins over again to see if its possible they were originally over-graded. If then you still strongly disagree with the new, lower grades then you have to consider both the odds and cost of either sending back for reconsideration or to CAC. All the best luck though if you choose to ship them out and not sit on them.
Pocket Change Inspector
Probably there is some bias on crossovers, so would generally scrutinize them in the future six ways to Sunday with a major submitter. Else you are going to keep getting these results that are like "Mr. Magoo you did it again!"
The CAC sticker does not trump the grade on the holder. It merely indicates he thinks it’s an a or b coin if green. A gold indicates JA thinks it’s could be higher. However this is no guarantee the TPG will agree if sent in for higher grade.
If they want that money then they have to get it in a TPG holder that says that IMV. I think a lot of them run into (off the bourse my table) in my experience the elevator does not go to the top. It reminds me of this little fake rip off guy who came by my table saying he buys from dealers below bid to wholesale in trying rip me. I laughed told him go find one then. Or They will say “oh it’s under graded” bla bla trying get moon money. Then get it in holder that says that.
A gold sticker indicates that CAC thinks the coin is under-graded, not “possibly higher”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Then get it in the TPG holder that says that grade lol.
Gold-stickered coins do just fine as they are, even if buyers like you won’t pay a premium for them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This would be a tragic mistake. Gold stickered coins demand so much more than the full grade improvement of a possible reconsideration it would bring tears to your eyes.
It's probably NGC that I'm thinking of. My bad.
I would mostly do nothing, unless there were a few that I really believed deserved a higher grade and the juice was worth the squeeze.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Hmm... I'm not so sure this is the case for a lot of people.
Smitten with DBLCs.
In the marketplace, weren’t some those coins probably discounted/penalized just for being in those holders? I’m thinking they’ll have the same value in a PCGS 53 holder as an ANACS 55, right? Maybe more? Obviously this depends on the spread of the specific coins, but it’s gotta be close.
I’m anxious to hear what you decide.
I would say go for the beans if you think they’re as good as the grade they had before.